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On October 06 2011 17:06 Dulak wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2011 05:42 trainRiderJ wrote:
I work hard and live within my means. I've done the poor college student eating ramen. I've done the 550 square foot apartment. This really stuck out to me, is a 550 square foot apartment considered small in the US? In Finland most students and single people live in apartments that range from 15 to 25 square meters, which would be around 165 to 270 square feet. I live in a 500 square feet apartment with my wife and we consider it quite comfortable. If 550 square feet is smal do all working people live in palaces over there or what? :D
In the US yes 550sq ft is small. The minimum apartment size you will find is basically 500sq ft, which is basically just 1 giant room in which you eat, sleep, watch TV, and bath.
Coincendentally thats exactly what I'm in atm. A 500sq. ft studio apartment. Not even allowed to have more than 1 person living here full time actually according to housing laws here.
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http://www.truth-out.org/uber-vultures-billionaires-who-would-pick-our-president/1317769580
Excerpt
Singer's modus operandi is to find some forgotten tiny debt owed by a very poor nation (Peru and Congo were on his menu). He waits for the United States and European taxpayers to forgive the poor nations' debts, then waits at bit longer for offers of food aid, medicine and investment loans. Then Singer pounces, legally grabbing at every resource and all the money going to the desperate country. Trade stops, funds freeze and an entire economy is effectively held hostage.
Singer then demands aid-giving nations pay monstrous ransoms to let trade resume. At BBC TV's Newsnight, we learned that Singer demanded $400 million dollars from the Congo for a debt he picked up for less than $10 million. If he doesn't get his 4,000 percent profit, he can effectively starve the nation. I don't mean that figuratively - I mean starve as in no food. In Congo-Brazzaville last year, one-fourth of all deaths of children under five were caused by malnutrition.
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On October 06 2011 17:06 Dulak wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2011 05:42 trainRiderJ wrote:
I work hard and live within my means. I've done the poor college student eating ramen. I've done the 550 square foot apartment. This really stuck out to me, is a 550 square foot apartment considered small in the US? In Finland most students and single people live in apartments that range from 15 to 25 square meters, which would be around 165 to 270 square feet. I live in a 500 square feet apartment with my wife and we consider it quite comfortable. If 550 square feet is smal do all working people live in palaces over there or what? :D
If you don't live in one of the high-priced, densely populated big cities, like New York, many apartments are 800, even over 1000 sq. ft, with just a living wage. I'm sure you can check online, as there are apartment rental sites online that have dimensions and pictures, and such. 500sq. ft. is smaller than I've ever even seen.
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On October 06 2011 17:21 Zooper31 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2011 17:06 Dulak wrote:On October 06 2011 05:42 trainRiderJ wrote:
I work hard and live within my means. I've done the poor college student eating ramen. I've done the 550 square foot apartment. This really stuck out to me, is a 550 square foot apartment considered small in the US? In Finland most students and single people live in apartments that range from 15 to 25 square meters, which would be around 165 to 270 square feet. I live in a 500 square feet apartment with my wife and we consider it quite comfortable. If 550 square feet is smal do all working people live in palaces over there or what? :D In the US yes 550sq ft is small. The minimum apartment size you will find is basically 500sq ft, which is basically just 1 giant room in which you eat, sleep, watch TV, and bath. Coincendentally thats exactly what I'm in atm. A 500sq. ft studio apartment. Not even allowed to have more than 1 person living here full time actually according to housing laws here.
I've completed two courses of study (law, master; economics, bachelor) and also live in 500sq in Vienna. Don't see anything wrong with that...
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On October 06 2011 16:37 sleepingdog wrote:
I know it's a bit of topic, but in Europe, the probably most socialist country, Greece, is about to destroy the Euro with its relentless spending, corruption and public debt
Leave Wall Street alone, those guys at least have a basic understanding of the fact that you shouldn't really spend more than you earn...
Also in the economic society it's a commonly known fact by now that not bankers but interventionistic politics has caused the economic crisis.
The funny thing is: if people who work 40 hours a week or are unemployed demand stuff from the state/society/whatever, it is called "fair", "human", "socialistic"
if people who work 80 hours a week only demand that the state doesn't take away even more from them than he already does, it is called "greed"
fucked up world, if you ask me
The most socialistic country (and i find this "the most socialistic" absurd, either you are socialist or not, there's no inbetween in my opinion, the most social would in my opinion be a better term) is probably Sweden in the Eu and Norway in Europe. Your view of Greece is pretty absurd, you should be able to see the bigger picture if you have an economics bachelor. (vwl or bwl?) And Greece is probably not more corrupt than Austria, and also doesn't that much more government workers. What is "your economic society"? mises.org? or Die Presse? I bet they see it that way, and that's why no one takes them seriously.
And if people who work nothing, but live off their interest demand to pay less taxes, and pay the lowest taxes since 50 years, then that's totally cool and really a good thing.
fucked up world, if you ask me
And 500 square foot is fucking huge for a student. I don't know many students who have an appartment like this when it's not government sponsored (Gemeindebau) and not sponsored by their parents.
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500 square foot for one person as a standard is a gigantic waste of space and natural resources. -_-
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On October 06 2011 18:05 Talin wrote:
500 square foot for one person as a standard is a gigantic waste of space and natural resources. -_-
no its not. normal ppl don't like living in shoe box. 500 sq foot is only 50m2 unless you're a student without a job that's the bare minimum. Most ppl with a job have at least 100m2.
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I live with a collegue in a flat that has a little less than 100m²... 4.5 rooms (extremly tiny bathroom so the 4 other rooms are ~20m², sadly we have a floor which is basically "dead space").
We are still trying to figure out as to how we could/should use the one (big) spare room (well, it's a theoretical dining room but that seems pretty unesessary ^^)...
I wouldn't want to live alone in a 25m² appartment (or better "room")... But 50m² is easyli enough... Well the architecture of the flat is more important than the pure size anyway...
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On October 06 2011 18:19 Nizaris wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2011 18:05 Talin wrote:
500 square foot for one person as a standard is a gigantic waste of space and natural resources. -_- no its not. normal ppl don't like living in shoe box. 500 sq foot is only 50m2 unless you're a student without a job that's the bare minimum. Most ppl with a job have at least 100m2.
Wtf? I maybe know families with 4 people who have 100m²... And I don't think that rent prices in Belgium are that much lower than in Vienna/ Ausitra. Do you only know people who are rich?
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On October 06 2011 18:19 Nizaris wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2011 18:05 Talin wrote:
500 square foot for one person as a standard is a gigantic waste of space and natural resources. -_- no its not. normal ppl don't like living in shoe box. 500 sq foot is only 50m2 unless you're a student without a job that's the bare minimum. Most ppl with a job have at least 100m2.
It's 50m2 minimum. For one person. -_- Anywhere between 30-40 is perfectly decent for a single person, and it's hardly a shoe box.
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On October 06 2011 17:21 Zooper31 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2011 17:06 Dulak wrote:On October 06 2011 05:42 trainRiderJ wrote:
I work hard and live within my means. I've done the poor college student eating ramen. I've done the 550 square foot apartment. This really stuck out to me, is a 550 square foot apartment considered small in the US? In Finland most students and single people live in apartments that range from 15 to 25 square meters, which would be around 165 to 270 square feet. I live in a 500 square feet apartment with my wife and we consider it quite comfortable. If 550 square feet is smal do all working people live in palaces over there or what? :D In the US yes 550sq ft is small. The minimum apartment size you will find is basically 500sq ft, which is basically just 1 giant room in which you eat, sleep, watch TV, and bath. Coincendentally thats exactly what I'm in atm. A 500sq. ft studio apartment. Not even allowed to have more than 1 person living here full time actually according to housing laws here.
Damn, we really do have it pretty nice. I have no problem with small living spaces as I've kind of had to live in them, but to have those sort of housing laws not allowing a ton of people to be living in a tiny space, and the fact that a lot of people living in apts. are well over 500 sq. ft. afaik (at least in my area) is pretty nice comparing to what I hear about in most of Europe, from Spain to Russia.
Having more living space on average is a random thing to be proud of about my country, but hey, why not  .
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On October 06 2011 18:19 Nizaris wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2011 18:05 Talin wrote:
500 square foot for one person as a standard is a gigantic waste of space and natural resources. -_- no its not. normal ppl don't like living in shoe box. 500 sq foot is only 50m2 unless you're a student without a job that's the bare minimum. Most ppl with a job have at least 100m2. Wtf? I live with 4 people at ~92m2...
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On October 06 2011 18:38 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:Damn, we really do have it pretty nice. I have no problem with small living spaces as I've kind of had to live in them, but to have those sort of housing laws not allowing a ton of people to be living in a tiny space, and the fact that a lot of people living in apts. are well over 500 sq. ft. afaik (at least in my area) is pretty nice comparing to what I hear about in most of Europe, from Spain to Russia. Having more living space on average is a random thing to be proud of about my country, but hey, why not .
Thing is, people over here don't really complain that their apartments are too small. They complain that the rents are too high. Most people would rather live in a smaller apartment so they can spend their money on something else than housing. Especially in the Helsinki area there is a huge demand for small apartments that is not met because companies that build apartment buildings and city officials are still stuck in the 70s and 80s mentality of building many 3-4 room apartments per floor and not nearly enough smaller ones. The big ones then stay empty because there isn't any demand for them and the rents for single room apartments are sky high.
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On October 06 2011 17:57 BlackFlag wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2011 16:37 sleepingdog wrote:
I know it's a bit of topic, but in Europe, the probably most socialist country, Greece, is about to destroy the Euro with its relentless spending, corruption and public debt
Leave Wall Street alone, those guys at least have a basic understanding of the fact that you shouldn't really spend more than you earn...
Also in the economic society it's a commonly known fact by now that not bankers but interventionistic politics has caused the economic crisis.
The funny thing is: if people who work 40 hours a week or are unemployed demand stuff from the state/society/whatever, it is called "fair", "human", "socialistic"
if people who work 80 hours a week only demand that the state doesn't take away even more from them than he already does, it is called "greed"
fucked up world, if you ask me The most socialistic country (and i find this "the most socialistic" absurd, either you are socialist or not, there's no inbetween in my opinion, the most social would in my opinion be a better term) is probably Sweden in the Eu and Norway in Europe. Your view of Greece is pretty absurd, you should be able to see the bigger picture if you have an economics bachelor. (vwl or bwl?) And Greece is probably not more corrupt than Austria, and also doesn't that much more government workers. What is "your economic society"? mises.org? or Die Presse? I bet they see it that way, and that's why no one takes them seriously. And if people who work nothing, but live off their interest demand to pay less taxes, and pay the lowest taxes since 50 years, then that's totally cool and really a good thing. fucked up world, if you ask me And 500 square foot is fucking huge for a student. I don't know many students who have an appartment like this when it's not government sponsored (Gemeindebau) and not sponsored by their parents.
Economics means "vwl" - "bwl" is usually translated as "business administration".
I encourage you to read some (more or less) scientific papers on this stuff, the media reports are especially bad on this subject. And that you cite "Die Presse" as right-wing-neoliberalistic shows pretty much everything that's wrong with approaches to economics in europe. We have drifted so far into leftish spheres that even moderate liberalistic approaches are condemned.
Of course you can be "more socialistist" and "less socialistic"....there are probably a million different ways to differentiate, depending on the exact structure of governmental involement. By your definition, we would live in a continent that consists only of socialistic countries.
Btw, I've lived 6 years in 12,5m² and only recently moved to a new, "big" place with 50m²
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On October 06 2011 19:25 sleepingdog wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2011 17:57 BlackFlag wrote:On October 06 2011 16:37 sleepingdog wrote:
I know it's a bit of topic, but in Europe, the probably most socialist country, Greece, is about to destroy the Euro with its relentless spending, corruption and public debt
Leave Wall Street alone, those guys at least have a basic understanding of the fact that you shouldn't really spend more than you earn...
Also in the economic society it's a commonly known fact by now that not bankers but interventionistic politics has caused the economic crisis.
The funny thing is: if people who work 40 hours a week or are unemployed demand stuff from the state/society/whatever, it is called "fair", "human", "socialistic"
if people who work 80 hours a week only demand that the state doesn't take away even more from them than he already does, it is called "greed"
fucked up world, if you ask me The most socialistic country (and i find this "the most socialistic" absurd, either you are socialist or not, there's no inbetween in my opinion, the most social would in my opinion be a better term) is probably Sweden in the Eu and Norway in Europe. Your view of Greece is pretty absurd, you should be able to see the bigger picture if you have an economics bachelor. (vwl or bwl?) And Greece is probably not more corrupt than Austria, and also doesn't that much more government workers. What is "your economic society"? mises.org? or Die Presse? I bet they see it that way, and that's why no one takes them seriously. And if people who work nothing, but live off their interest demand to pay less taxes, and pay the lowest taxes since 50 years, then that's totally cool and really a good thing. fucked up world, if you ask me And 500 square foot is fucking huge for a student. I don't know many students who have an appartment like this when it's not government sponsored (Gemeindebau) and not sponsored by their parents. Of course you can be "more socialistist" and "less socialistic"....there are probably a million different ways to differentiate, depending on the exact structure of governmental involement. By your definition, we would live in a continent that consists only of socialistic countries.
I don't think so, you can be a more social country, that offers more social security nets, like Sweden offers more than Great Britain for example. For example Yugoslavia under Tito was a socialist country, none in Europe is like this. It's unimportant if the parties call themself socialist as e.g. in France, they aren't. Government involvement per se doesn't constitute socialism. China is capitalist too.
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On October 06 2011 17:06 Dulak wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2011 05:42 trainRiderJ wrote:
I work hard and live within my means. I've done the poor college student eating ramen. I've done the 550 square foot apartment. This really stuck out to me, is a 550 square foot apartment considered small in the US? In Finland most students and single people live in apartments that range from 15 to 25 square meters, which would be around 165 to 270 square feet. I live in a 500 square feet apartment with my wife and we consider it quite comfortable. If 550 square feet is smal do all working people live in palaces over there or what? :D
There's a lot of room in Texas :p
I doubt you could find anything under 450 square feet in the entire state.
Maaaaybe an efficiency apartment downtown in one of the major cities.
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On October 06 2011 17:06 Dulak wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2011 05:42 trainRiderJ wrote:
I work hard and live within my means. I've done the poor college student eating ramen. I've done the 550 square foot apartment. This really stuck out to me, is a 550 square foot apartment considered small in the US? In Finland most students and single people live in apartments that range from 15 to 25 square meters, which would be around 165 to 270 square feet. I live in a 500 square feet apartment with my wife and we consider it quite comfortable. If 550 square feet is smal do all working people live in palaces over there or what? :D
Student dormitories tend to be on the small side (150-200 square feet). But people living in a personal apartment will have at least 350 sq feet, usually over 500, and if it's not a dense metro area then 600+ is affordable for a middle income earner.
Land is cheap in most states; the contiguous US has only 1/3 the population density of the EU.
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On October 06 2011 22:40 Signet wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2011 17:06 Dulak wrote:On October 06 2011 05:42 trainRiderJ wrote:
I work hard and live within my means. I've done the poor college student eating ramen. I've done the 550 square foot apartment. This really stuck out to me, is a 550 square foot apartment considered small in the US? In Finland most students and single people live in apartments that range from 15 to 25 square meters, which would be around 165 to 270 square feet. I live in a 500 square feet apartment with my wife and we consider it quite comfortable. If 550 square feet is smal do all working people live in palaces over there or what? :D Student dormitories tend to be on the small side (150-200 square feet). But people living in a personal apartment will have at least 350 sq feet, usually over 500, and if it's not a dense metro area then 600+ is affordable for a middle income earner. Land is cheap in most states; the contiguous US has only 1/3 the population density of the EU.
Yes, but as someone said, even in major cities (in the USA) you barely find something under 500 square foot. That it's cheap on the countryside doesn't surprise me, but in cities? This is to me pretty surprising/ shocking. I probably don't even have enough stuff to fill a 50m² flat. Would look like I've been robbed haha.
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On October 06 2011 22:30 trainRiderJ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2011 17:06 Dulak wrote:On October 06 2011 05:42 trainRiderJ wrote:
I work hard and live within my means. I've done the poor college student eating ramen. I've done the 550 square foot apartment. This really stuck out to me, is a 550 square foot apartment considered small in the US? In Finland most students and single people live in apartments that range from 15 to 25 square meters, which would be around 165 to 270 square feet. I live in a 500 square feet apartment with my wife and we consider it quite comfortable. If 550 square feet is smal do all working people live in palaces over there or what? :D There's a lot of room in Texas :p I doubt you could find anything under 450 square feet in the entire state. Maaaaybe an efficiency apartment downtown in one of the major cities.
I guess everything really is big in Texas 
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On October 06 2011 22:49 BlackFlag wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2011 22:40 Signet wrote:On October 06 2011 17:06 Dulak wrote:On October 06 2011 05:42 trainRiderJ wrote:
I work hard and live within my means. I've done the poor college student eating ramen. I've done the 550 square foot apartment. This really stuck out to me, is a 550 square foot apartment considered small in the US? In Finland most students and single people live in apartments that range from 15 to 25 square meters, which would be around 165 to 270 square feet. I live in a 500 square feet apartment with my wife and we consider it quite comfortable. If 550 square feet is smal do all working people live in palaces over there or what? :D Student dormitories tend to be on the small side (150-200 square feet). But people living in a personal apartment will have at least 350 sq feet, usually over 500, and if it's not a dense metro area then 600+ is affordable for a middle income earner. Land is cheap in most states; the contiguous US has only 1/3 the population density of the EU. Yes, but as someone said, even in major cities (in the USA) you barely find something under 500 square foot. That it's cheap on the countryside doesn't surprise me, but in cities? This is to me pretty surprising/ shocking. I probably don't even have enough stuff to fill a 50m² flat. Would look like I've been robbed haha.
Well many US apartments are meant for 2-3 bedrooms which is why they have larger square footage. I feel like in the US we tend to not have a lot of apartments made with 1br specifically in mind, and those that do exist are pretty expensive. Before utilities it would be about 2x-4x as expensive for me to live in a 1 person apartment compared to living in a 3 person apartment that's about 3x bigger than the 1 person apartment would be. For example I can live in a 3br 1200-1500 sq foot apartment for $1800 USD (which gets split 3 ways by roommates) or I can find a 1br that's 500-800 square feet for $1300-$2000. Trying to find a 1br that's say $600-1000 (as in comparable to rent of the 3br) just doesn't happen where I am.
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