Occupy Wall Street - Page 38

On October 07 2011 02:25 scaban84 wrote:

Nobody really knows much about the protest. I wouldn't call it a movement, because there is no message or demand. It is just a confluence of students, and union workers, etc. looking for an excuse to protest and seemingly to demand more entitlements. Students want jobs, and union workers demand more entitlements... two demands entirely in conflict btw.
The irony is that many of these people voted for Obama who is in the pocket of Goldman Sachs. You wouldn't see them protesting Obama however, otherwise they would be accused of being tea-partiers and subsequently lynched.

On October 07 2011 02:30 thane wrote:



Ok that makes sense I keep getting conflicting information say its about A or B etc. I really do wish that people would wake up and get ride of politicians being "in someones pocket" to steal your phrase. It would make more sense to get rid of the greed and bad economic planning than to just cry about the current situation.

This is straight from the wiki page"The participants of the event are mainly protesting against social and economic inequality, corporate greed, and the influence of corporate money and lobbyists on government, among other concerns." I know Wiki is not the best but maybe its better than nothing.

On October 07 2011 04:00 Saji wrote:


Hi, Can you really say there is no motive? the general sentiment i read/feel is that people are fed up with inequality, unfairness and corruption.

These subjects in themselves are very complicated specially because everyone experience them differently but at the end they all are the same.

That is why for most people (i.e. on this thread) trying to understand want is happening there and not being physically present at the protest. The demands seem incoherent for a lot of people because of the variety of demands and complains.

But if you look at them without your own judgement and you understand what the most basic expectations of people are, that is; transcending the way you think, for example not thinking in mental frameworks such as nationality, politics, racial and other mental imposes limitations. We can see things differently, because at the end, we humans have the same expectations of life.

And that is to be treated respectful, peaceful and equal (this may sound for some people as a hippie thing) but i ask you in all seriousness, if you are with the people you like and love, don't they treat you like this?

So people have started to realize if we don't do anything about these problems outside our personal sphere. i.e. politics, economics, government, corporations, our own morals, and values which have been corrupted for a very long time, We will never attain what we are looking for i.e. happiness, joy, equality, fairness respect.

As i see it now corruption, inequality, unfairness has invade everyone`s life because we have not been able to understand that if the world is corrupt so are we. Because if you objectively look at the world as a whole then there is no other conclusion than that we live in a system which is based on, greed, backstabbing, lies, and conflict.

Besides from a strategic point of view (that is if the protesters want to succeed) they can't have clear demands because if they would then other people wouldn't join in the protest, i.e. unions. different ages, different social backgrounds etc. and it would fail. (it would exclude other people as they wouldn't feel related to it).

e.g. if you say I`m fighting inequality more people will join then if you would formulated it specific, such as i want that African american people have more rights and that their rights are protected properly. (you see how specifying demands will exclude masses)?

So having a very broad demand/complain means people of all different kind of trades will be drawn to it because they will want to give input in what has to be changed.

And i think you can expect in the coming weeks that the demands will become more clear as more people will join and as more people will agree on what really are the problems. (i`m not implying i know the problems, its just the way i give name to things.)

On October 07 2011 04:23 scaban84 wrote:


I have been at the protest. I had to squeeze by to get to work. There is no intelligence at this protest. There are people with a wide range of slogans, some calling for increases in the minimum wage, others complaining about rich Wall street elite. None of them have any understanding of what is going on in the economy and in politics. They recognize that there is a problem, but they don't understand the causality, and therefore have no way to recognize a solution. The fact that they choose to be loud instead of getting educated on the issues at hand is an insult to those of us who understand the processes necessary to effect change.

On October 07 2011 01:22 scaban84 wrote:


This is why political discourse in Europe is truly dumbfounding. Yes economics and politics are both subfields of sociology, but they should still be distinguished. You fail to see how economic and political systems are separate. I didn't say anything about a plutocracy. Your assumption that Capitalism always results in more social stratification is where you fail. You also assume that elected officials in your imagined "Capitalist political system" (an oxymoron) are always the rich. If you understand American history you would understand that the more free this country was from regulation the more 'equal' people were.

On October 07 2011 04:35 Logo wrote:


I don't follow this line of thought. The inability to articulate the problem (or it's solution) doesn't mean there isn't a problem. Is it really too much to hope that politicians will hear the protests, do their job, and come up with solutions?

On October 06 2011 19:06 Dulak wrote:


Thing is, people over here don't really complain that their apartments are too small. They complain that the rents are too high. Most people would rather live in a smaller apartment so they can spend their money on something else than housing. Especially in the Helsinki area there is a huge demand for small apartments that is not met because companies that build apartment buildings and city officials are still stuck in the 70s and 80s mentality of building many 3-4 room apartments per floor and not nearly enough smaller ones. The big ones then stay empty because there isn't any demand for them and the rents for single room apartments are sky high.

I guess everything really is big in Texas

On October 07 2011 05:17 thoraxe wrote:

Politicians don't have a clear understanding of what is asked to be changed; people are asking to change so many aspects of the nation that a solution is not possible atm. So essentially, the politicians don't know what root of the problem (if they acknowldege or deny that there even is one, who knows) is exactly, and until they do, they won't act on it.

On October 07 2011 05:35 Logo wrote:


Can they really not figure out what is meant by corporate influence over government? Have they never heard of ACTA or the massive amounts of money spent on lobbying each year? Can they not look at data on the distribution of income, income growth, wealth, etc. in America when protesters are saying the concentration of wealth in America is a problem? Can they not look into the education system given how many people are complaining about college debt they have no means to pay?

Either way, just because politicians are still struggling to understand what the protesters are saying doesn't mean the protesters are wasting their time or just packing it in.

Sure I'd love if the protesters adopted a unified meaning, and one that aligned with my views without some of the crazier points they've brought up, but even without that the protest still seems perfectly valid.

On October 07 2011 05:21 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:

Well, that sucks. Is this high rent an issue just in the capital, or all over the country?


Yeah, I've been there. Mosquitoes, rain, roaches. The Roaches are as big as Zerg ones. And they spit acid.

On October 07 2011 05:35 Logo wrote:


Can they really not figure out what is meant by corporate influence over government? Have they never heard of ACTA or the massive amounts of money spent on lobbying each year? Can they not look at data on the distribution of income, income growth, wealth, etc. in America when protesters are saying the concentration of wealth in America is a problem? Can they not look into the education system given how many people are complaining about college debt they have no means to pay?

Either way, just because politicians are still struggling to understand what the protesters are saying doesn't mean the protesters are wasting their time or just packing it in.

Sure I'd love if the protesters adopted a unified meaning, and one that aligned with my views without some of the crazier points they've brought up, but even without that the protest still seems perfectly valid.

On October 07 2011 05:45 scaban84 wrote:

Yeah I'm sure politicians would love to eliminate the possibility of them making vast sums of money from corporations.
Once again, no proposal, no solution in your rant. There is nothing easier than finding fault in something human. The challenge is in finding solutions. There is a great danger in allowing politicians to create their own solutions to problems that they themselves create. The result often is more government regulation and corruption. These protesters are simply enablers of this form of corruption.

On October 07 2011 04:23 scaban84 wrote:


I have been at the protest. I had to squeeze by to get to work. There is no intelligence at this protest. There are people with a wide range of slogans, some calling for increases in the minimum wage, others complaining about rich Wall street elite. None of them have any understanding of what is going on in the economy and in politics. They recognize that there is a problem, but they don't understand the causality, and therefore have no way to recognize a solution. The fact that they choose to be loud instead of getting educated on the issues at hand is an insult to those of us who understand the processes necessary to effect change.

On October 07 2011 05:45 scaban84 wrote:

Yeah I'm sure politicians would love to eliminate the possibility of them making vast sums of money from corporations.
Once again, no proposal, no solution in your rant. There is nothing easier than finding fault in something human. The challenge is in finding solutions. There is a great danger in allowing politicians to create their own solutions to problems that they themselves create. The result often is more government regulation and corruption. These protesters are simply enablers of this form of corruption.

On October 07 2011 01:03 Thorakh wrote:
I believe people won't understand why safety nets are necessary until they themselves lost their job, unable to find a new one and in urgent need of expensive medical treatment.

Now of course a safety net should be designed in a way such that it cannot be abused, but the fact that safety nets are being abused does not mean the very idea of a safety net is bad.

I am economy illiterate but I do strongly believe in paying for safety nets. You might be the one getting fired tomorrow and contracting a rare disease. It's not only out of selfinterest, I believe in a society caring for the weaker as well.

Can anyone explain to me why Americans are allergic to the word 'socialist'? Is it because their own limited safety nets are being abused left and right?

On October 07 2011 05:54 Saji wrote:


Hi I disagree on the part that you say there is no intelligence in this protest. I disagree because i have watched the life stream (http://www.livestream.com/globalrevolution) and i have seen people talk intelligent about topics/demands/problems.

I do not however say that the protest in its entirety is intelligent (intelligent is a abstract term so we are probably not talking about the same thing) of course there are parts of it which aren`t but there are part of which are. And if you already made up in your mind that its useless you well never find the usefulness of it.

What I`m actually trying to say is you/we can't really make a judgement based on our own experience solely, because this kind of thinking will always be limited to what we perceive/know and we know so little in general.

Also i`m asking you this quiet frank, since you assume the position that you do know what is the problem. could you explain what the problem is, and when you explain are you explaining this according to your view or according to how it is?

Again i`m asking this frankly, i hope i can get an hones answer
peace

On October 07 2011 06:00 TheGlassface wrote:
Couldn't have put it better myself.

No one understands poverty until you've been there.
It's why everyone gets tired of the "poor people are just leeches!" shit that you see so often. It may be true for a few people, but there are bad people everywhere and not just in poverty so blanket statements never help anyone or anything.

On October 07 2011 01:03 Thorakh wrote:
I believe people won't understand why safety nets are necessary until they themselves lost their job, unable to find a new one and in urgent need of expensive medical treatment.

Now of course a safety net should be designed in a way such that it cannot be abused, but the fact that safety nets are being abused does not mean the very idea of a safety net is bad.

I am economy illiterate but I do strongly believe in paying for safety nets. You might be the one getting fired tomorrow and contracting a rare disease. It's not only out of selfinterest, I believe in a society caring for the weaker as well.

Can anyone explain to me why Americans are allergic to the word 'socialist'? Is it because their own limited safety nets are being abused left and right?

On October 07 2011 06:13 scaban84 wrote:


The problems are many. If you want my honest answer I need a specific question. These protesters are basically describing the symptoms, some of them recognize the problems, but these problems need to be addressed individually. I can't prescribe one blanket answer for all of this country's problems.