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On October 06 2011 09:22 Signet wrote:Here's a link showing the percent of federal taxes as well as state/local taxes paid, by income quintile: http://www.ctj.org/pdf/taxday2011.pdfThe top 1% made about 20.3% of national income, and paid about 21.5% of taxes at all levels (federal + state + local). Our taxes are slightly progressive when you consider all of them put together.
Thanks. Those numbers are very sensible. Still, it seems odd that the top 1% is paying less percentually than the next 9 %. Guess that is where the "loopholes" come in.
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I'll just tell you about my story, facts, i live in venezuela and even if you can't imagine it, its worse than any other country in LA, total anarchy and corruption, this is not my opinion this is a fact you just have to look at the numbers.
Recently i visited NA for the first time in my life and im 24 years old, it was mind blowing (i study engineer), the level of organization its incredible, there is laws and people does respect that laws, that was amazing to me, almost all people is friendly and smily, when you walk on a street you feel safe (safer than here thats for sure) no one is gonna rob you or something... The food is really really good even if it is synthetic and blah blah, definitly America is the best thing ive ever put a feet on, yes i dont know very much of the world, but please dont compare your situation with the middle east one, its just not the same.
Oh and i forgot, i pay almost 3 times (in average) for a internet than people with much better ISP on NA, i have the best ISP on my country and its just 1.5mb(Down)/512Kb(Up) and not stable at all so i cannot play starcraft whenever i want, what about that!?
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On October 06 2011 09:36 radiatoren wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2011 09:22 Signet wrote:Here's a link showing the percent of federal taxes as well as state/local taxes paid, by income quintile: http://www.ctj.org/pdf/taxday2011.pdfThe top 1% made about 20.3% of national income, and paid about 21.5% of taxes at all levels (federal + state + local). Our taxes are slightly progressive when you consider all of them put together. Thanks. Those numbers are very sensible. Still, it seems odd that the top 1% is paying less percentually than the next 9 %. Guess that is where the "loopholes" come in.
That's probably a factor. Also recall that the payroll tax does not tax income above $106,800. So an individual earning $107,000 would pay $4,485.60 towards Social Security (currently 4.2% tax rate) and an individual earning $1,000,000 would pay $4,485.60 towards Social Security.
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On October 06 2011 09:36 frosecold wrote:
I'll just tell you about my story, facts, i live in venezuela and even if you can't imagine it, its worse than any other country in LA, total anarchy and corruption, this is not my opinion this is a fact you just have to look at the numbers.
Recently i visited NA for the first time in my life and im 24 years old, it was mind blowing (i study engineer), the level of organization its incredible, there is laws and people does respect that laws, that was amazing to me, almost all people is friendly and smily, when you walk on a street you feel safe (safer than here thats for sure) no one is gonna rob you or something... The food is really really good even if it is synthetic and blah blah, definitly America is the best thing ive ever put a feet on, yes i dont know very much of the world, but please dont compare your situation with the middle east one, its just not the same.
Oh and i forgot, i pay almost 3 times (in average) for a internet than people with much better ISP on NA, i have the best ISP on my country and its just 1.5mb(Down)/512Kb(Up) and not stable at all so i cannot play starcraft whenever i want, what about that!?
I very much appreciate your post. Middle class America is a good place to be compared with so many other places in the world. It is important to remember.
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I've read the OP and also read supplementary CNN articles regarding the issue. Many think tanks actually dismiss the union backed protest as a simple "phase". Despite my reading, I'm still tentative and unsure about what the tangible impacts of this would be on the middle class should this succeed? Anyone willing to clear up an financially-untrained mind?
(please in elementary school terms, I really, really dislike economics >_<)
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On October 06 2011 09:45 redwingxviii wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2011 09:36 frosecold wrote:
I'll just tell you about my story, facts, i live in venezuela and even if you can't imagine it, its worse than any other country in LA, total anarchy and corruption, this is not my opinion this is a fact you just have to look at the numbers.
Recently i visited NA for the first time in my life and im 24 years old, it was mind blowing (i study engineer), the level of organization its incredible, there is laws and people does respect that laws, that was amazing to me, almost all people is friendly and smily, when you walk on a street you feel safe (safer than here thats for sure) no one is gonna rob you or something... The food is really really good even if it is synthetic and blah blah, definitly America is the best thing ive ever put a feet on, yes i dont know very much of the world, but please dont compare your situation with the middle east one, its just not the same.
Oh and i forgot, i pay almost 3 times (in average) for a internet than people with much better ISP on NA, i have the best ISP on my country and its just 1.5mb(Down)/512Kb(Up) and not stable at all so i cannot play starcraft whenever i want, what about that!? I very much appreciate your post. Middle class America is a good place to be compared with so many other places in the world. It is important to remember.
Yes, but how the quality of life life is in the middle east when compared with America is of no consequence. You can still draw comparisons just like with Greece and Portugal. Just because the people are poorer does not mean it is not the same.
We used to pay tough prices for internet too here in Norway (envying sweden here). It`ll get better. When enough people get up and demand better.
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The thing about this protest is that its being taken over, at least in the media by far left wing socialists/communists and their respective celebrity/elite backers.
The true enemy, and the reason these people should be out there is the Federal Reserve and the fractional reserve banking system, and crony capitalism.
Everyone should watch this video, one of the best and most concise arguments out there. All young people watch!!!
occupy wall street best rant
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On October 06 2011 10:30 cerebralz wrote:The thing about this protest is that its being taken over, at least in the media by far left wing socialists/communists and their respective celebrity/elite backers. The true enemy, and the reason these people should be out there is the Federal Reserve and the fractional reserve banking system, and crony capitalism. Everyone should watch this video, one of the best and most concise arguments out there. All young people watch!!! occupy wall street best rant
Its hilarious what you American's call "far left" and "socialist/communist". No sense of perspective.
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On October 06 2011 10:47 Alethios wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2011 10:30 cerebralz wrote:The thing about this protest is that its being taken over, at least in the media by far left wing socialists/communists and their respective celebrity/elite backers. The true enemy, and the reason these people should be out there is the Federal Reserve and the fractional reserve banking system, and crony capitalism. Everyone should watch this video, one of the best and most concise arguments out there. All young people watch!!! occupy wall street best rant Its hilarious what you American's call "far left" and "socialist/communist". No sense of perspective.
funny how you say no sense of perspective yet you say, "you americans" =p
Anyone who's completed high school history or has lived 40+ odd years in america knows full what what american politics have shifted to the right and what defines the right and the left have moved. History changes and parties change, the republican part of now is not the same party it was 30 years ago or what it was 80 years ago. These are just labels not the message =p Funny how the republican party can be labeled as the most sympathize to flying the confederate flag and at the same time be the name of the party that freed the slaves.
There are many shades of gray for the political left and right and what one calls a dog another can say that's a spaniel. Thoughout american history parties have grown and redefined themselves, there has been the democatic, republican, federalist, anti federalist, whig, liberty, free soil, know-nothings, opposition, readjuster, greenback, populists, silver, socialists, independence league, bull moose, national women's, farmer-labor, communists, american labor, american first, american nazi, people's, grassroots, green and many more parties i didn't name
American polotics != European != Aus != Asian etc.
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The OWS movement isn't doing itself any favors allowing itself to be co-opted by these Unions. Lots of people can get behind a movement against crony capitalism and people taking advantage. Unions, however, are only interested in getting more for themselves. If you think about it, union "seniority" rules and other rules preventing bad employees from being fired is part of what is preventing qualified, college-educated youth from having opportunities. These are some of the very people taking part in the march, and now they are being "joined" by some of the people contributing to their problem, whether they realize it or not.
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On October 06 2011 11:43 Kaitlin wrote:
The OWS movement isn't doing itself any favors allowing itself to be co-opted by these Unions. Lots of people can get behind a movement against crony capitalism and people taking advantage. Unions, however, are only interested in getting more for themselves. If you think about it, union "seniority" rules and other rules preventing bad employees from being fired is part of what is preventing qualified, college-educated youth from having opportunities. These are some of the very people taking part in the march, and now they are being "joined" by some of the people contributing to their problem, whether they realize it or not.
you don't understand what a union is? bad employees can always be fired, the only difference is that a union can get contracts for everyone that defines the process for firing and defines what can get your fired. Seniority only matters in some cases this usually comes down to cutting workers due to costs and it per contract kind of set up. Funny how you bash unions when workers right were only given due to the work from unions if you ever been in a split union non union work force most benefits that the non union workers have are due to the employer giving those benefits to the unionized workers, only from the tarnishing in the mid century of unions and mob's did the union's image was hurt. Unions were and still are a large part of america's middle class there is power in numbers and you can stand up to your employer in a union. =p can't talk about 99% without the work unions did in creation of the middle class. Unions were a response to the depravity that was working in the guiled age.
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I understand what a union is. I also understand the union is trying to prevent Boeing from creating jobs in South Carolina, as one example.
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On October 06 2011 12:32 Kaitlin wrote:
I understand what a union is. I also understand the union is trying to prevent Boeing from creating jobs in South Carolina, as one example.
They are trying to prevent Boeing to shift it's work force from union to non union by creation of this plant =p it's not removing unemployed when the goal is to remove the workforce from one plant and hire a workforce in another area that would be cheaper to deal with.
Here is a fun little story on how corporations work, take a look at canadian butchers in walmart they tried to unionize themselves a walmart butchers union. How did walmart respond, they closed every butchery in walmart, canada. So they can legally fire everyone and not been seen as illegal union busting.
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On October 06 2011 11:43 Kaitlin wrote:
The OWS movement isn't doing itself any favors allowing itself to be co-opted by these Unions. Lots of people can get behind a movement against crony capitalism and people taking advantage. Unions, however, are only interested in getting more for themselves. If you think about it, union "seniority" rules and other rules preventing bad employees from being fired is part of what is preventing qualified, college-educated youth from having opportunities. These are some of the very people taking part in the march, and now they are being "joined" by some of the people contributing to their problem, whether they realize it or not.
In a functioning democracy, political movements should be about "getting more for themselves". In such a system, the general welfare of society flourishes, through mutual self interest. Obviously checks and balances must exist, hence why we have a representative republic.
I consider myself to lean conservative but I find myself sympathizing with these protestors. We have a massive debt, and the upper income bracket is paying the lowest marginal rates that they have in 50 years. It is not about punishing the rich, it is about creating efficient tax systems.
The majority of the people in the upper income brackets are older, and will be leaving the tax pool before the debt becomes an imminent problem. They may not realize what they are doing to our generation(I am assuming that the majority of TL readers are between 18-30), but by lowering the taxes on themselves, while simultaneously accruing a massive debt, they are fucking over the future for us young people. We will be forced to endure sub-par services, or pay massive taxes, to pay off the debt that the baby boomers in their greed and excess left us.
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On October 06 2011 12:52 semantics wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2011 12:32 Kaitlin wrote:
I understand what a union is. I also understand the union is trying to prevent Boeing from creating jobs in South Carolina, as one example. They are trying to prevent Boeing to shift it's work force from union to non union by creation of this plant =p it's not removing unemployed when the goal is to remove the workforce from one plant and hire a workforce in another area that would be cheaper to deal with. Here is a fun little story on how corporations work, take a look at canadian butchers in walmart they tried to unionize themselves a walmart butchers union. How did walmart respond, they closed every butchery in walmart, canada. So they can legally fire everyone and not been seen as illegal union busting.
Boeing is not trying to fire anyone of the union workers. They are trying to expand, in another state, and the union is trying to stop it. Boeing is not trying to replace existing union labor.
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I hope this whole Occupy Wallst thing ends up being our version of the tea party. Its no secret that left-leaning people are also the sort of people who tend to ignore voting, when compared to the right. Hopefully this can breathe some life into the party the same way the tea party did for the right. Even if they end up being a bit extreme, its better than a bunch of spineless pansies who never even vote <_<
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On October 06 2011 09:42 Signet wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2011 09:36 radiatoren wrote:On October 06 2011 09:22 Signet wrote:Here's a link showing the percent of federal taxes as well as state/local taxes paid, by income quintile: http://www.ctj.org/pdf/taxday2011.pdfThe top 1% made about 20.3% of national income, and paid about 21.5% of taxes at all levels (federal + state + local). Our taxes are slightly progressive when you consider all of them put together. Thanks. Those numbers are very sensible. Still, it seems odd that the top 1% is paying less percentually than the next 9 %. Guess that is where the "loopholes" come in. That's probably a factor. Also recall that the payroll tax does not tax income above $106,800. So an individual earning $107,000 would pay $4,485.60 towards Social Security (currently 4.2% tax rate) and an individual earning $1,000,000 would pay $4,485.60 towards Social Security.
This is a huge problem that isn't brought up nearly enough. I've actually mentioned this to several co-workers and at least half of them were unaware of this, even though I work at a Fortune 500 company... most of America is the "Bewildered Herd." Also, this tax is usually 6.2% but was cut by the Obama administration to 4.2% for temporarily relief to the middle class. Unfortunately that move is a bandaid, not a solution.
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On October 06 2011 10:27 Madkipz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2011 09:45 redwingxviii wrote:On October 06 2011 09:36 frosecold wrote:
I'll just tell you about my story, facts, i live in venezuela and even if you can't imagine it, its worse than any other country in LA, total anarchy and corruption, this is not my opinion this is a fact you just have to look at the numbers.
Recently i visited NA for the first time in my life and im 24 years old, it was mind blowing (i study engineer), the level of organization its incredible, there is laws and people does respect that laws, that was amazing to me, almost all people is friendly and smily, when you walk on a street you feel safe (safer than here thats for sure) no one is gonna rob you or something... The food is really really good even if it is synthetic and blah blah, definitly America is the best thing ive ever put a feet on, yes i dont know very much of the world, but please dont compare your situation with the middle east one, its just not the same.
Oh and i forgot, i pay almost 3 times (in average) for a internet than people with much better ISP on NA, i have the best ISP on my country and its just 1.5mb(Down)/512Kb(Up) and not stable at all so i cannot play starcraft whenever i want, what about that!? I very much appreciate your post. Middle class America is a good place to be compared with so many other places in the world. It is important to remember. Yes, but how the quality of life life is in the middle east when compared with America is of no consequence. You can still draw comparisons just like with Greece and Portugal. Just because the people are poorer does not mean it is not the same. We used to pay tough prices for internet too here in Norway (envying sweden here). It`ll get better. When enough people get up and demand better.
"demanding better" sounds awfully greedy to me.
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On October 06 2011 13:59 AdreN- wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2011 09:42 Signet wrote:On October 06 2011 09:36 radiatoren wrote:On October 06 2011 09:22 Signet wrote:Here's a link showing the percent of federal taxes as well as state/local taxes paid, by income quintile: http://www.ctj.org/pdf/taxday2011.pdfThe top 1% made about 20.3% of national income, and paid about 21.5% of taxes at all levels (federal + state + local). Our taxes are slightly progressive when you consider all of them put together. Thanks. Those numbers are very sensible. Still, it seems odd that the top 1% is paying less percentually than the next 9 %. Guess that is where the "loopholes" come in. That's probably a factor. Also recall that the payroll tax does not tax income above $106,800. So an individual earning $107,000 would pay $4,485.60 towards Social Security (currently 4.2% tax rate) and an individual earning $1,000,000 would pay $4,485.60 towards Social Security. This is a huge problem that isn't brought up nearly enough. I've actually mentioned this to several co-workers (I work at a Fortune 500 company) and at least half of them were unaware of this... most of America is the "Bewildered Herd."
And the reason for this is because the tax is "supposed" to be to cover the benefits, and those benefits are capped at a certain level. That is why the taxes withheld for Social Security are not above a certain level. However, since politicians have been treating it as just another source of income, it's effectively lost its purpose.
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EPT
