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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On November 10 2012 07:47 HardlyNever wrote: This sounds bizarre. I knew you could buy debt for less than it was worth (obviously) but this sounds extreme. Could you buy your own debt (by proxy, if necessary), and then forgive it? that is genius! you probably could. | ||
Souma
2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
On November 10 2012 07:49 Ooshmagoosh wrote: So finance is so arbitrary and nonsensical that you can...buy people's debt and then erase it at will? How is Congress supposed to say "No, you cannot unfuck people's lives" with a straight face? Wouldn't this force them to look at the system itself, rather than beating people down? - also, thanks again to StealthBlue for all the news, good and bad! Happy Birthday! Sounds like a win-win for OWS to me. I'm sure they really thought this through. :> | ||
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Jaaaaasper
United States10225 Posts
On November 10 2012 07:34 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: How long before Congress proposed a bill to stop this I wonder...? Source Nice move by ows, I don't think congress can really do anything about this with the democrats hole the senate. I f the debt is being sold, they can't do anything about people doing what they want too with the debt they bought. Edit: I can't spell Edit 2: or do basic grammer | ||
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
On November 10 2012 07:34 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: How long before Congress proposed a bill to stop this I wonder...? Source why would they call that a return on investment? they lost $500; they gained nothing (monetarily). | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
bam utility function | ||
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
On November 10 2012 07:47 HardlyNever wrote: This sounds bizarre. I knew you could buy debt for less than it was worth (obviously) but this sounds extreme. Could you buy your own debt (by proxy, if necessary), and then forgive it? only if the person owning the debt is willing to sell it. usually this happens with cases already in collection. its not worth it to pursue the debt so they sell it to someone else to collect. if you are paying your monthly payments, etc. nobody is going to sell your debt for less than its worth. | ||
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radiatoren
Denmark1907 Posts
On November 10 2012 07:47 HardlyNever wrote: This sounds bizarre. I knew you could buy debt for less than it was worth (obviously) but this sounds extreme. Could you buy your own debt (by proxy, if necessary), and then forgive it? Not directly. You cannot buy specific debt (legally atleast since it is insider trading!). The trick here is to buy debt when it is on the edge of default or people are behind. Nobody want to buy such debt since they know it is unlikely they will be able to get enough back on the investment. By letting it get dissolved as soon as they own the debt they are providing relief for the people with the debt. It is a way of correcting the most problematic debt in the short term. Longer terms, the price of the debt will increase and the effective ratio will drop to far lower ratios than 1 to 15. When that happens, more people will be interested in collecting debt and debt buyers will be a better business. It seems like more of a temporary relief, and a shortterm solution, than an actual trick and in the long run it can seriously harm people in debt, by empowering debt collectors. | ||
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Tewks44
United States2032 Posts
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
It was more sophisticated than we had imagined: new documents show that the violent crackdown on Occupy last fall – so mystifying at the time – was not just coordinated at the level of the FBI, the Department of Homeland Security, and local police. The crackdown, which involved, as you may recall, violent arrests, group disruption, canister missiles to the skulls of protesters, people held in handcuffs so tight they were injured, people held in bondage till they were forced to wet or soil themselves –was coordinated with the big banks themselves. The Partnership for Civil Justice Fund, in a groundbreaking scoop that should once more shame major US media outlets (why are nonprofits now some of the only entities in America left breaking major civil liberties news?), filed this request. The document – reproduced here in an easily searchable format – shows a terrifying network of coordinated DHS, FBI, police, regional fusion center, and private-sector activity so completely merged into one another that the monstrous whole is, in fact, one entity: in some cases, bearing a single name, the Domestic Security Alliance Council. And it reveals this merged entity to have one centrally planned, locally executed mission. The documents, in short, show the cops and DHS working for and with banks to target, arrest, and politically disable peaceful American citizens. The documents, released after long delay in the week between Christmas and New Year, show a nationwide meta-plot unfolding in city after city in an Orwellian world: six American universities are sites where campus police funneled information about students involved with OWS to the FBI, with the administrations' knowledge (p51); banks sat down with FBI officials to pool information about OWS protesters harvested by private security; plans to crush Occupy events, planned for a month down the road, were made by the FBI – and offered to the representatives of the same organizations that the protests would target; and even threats of the assassination of OWS leaders by sniper fire – by whom? Where? – now remain redacted and undisclosed to those American citizens in danger, contrary to standard FBI practice to inform the person concerned when there is a threat against a political leader (p61). Source | ||
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sCCrooked
Korea (South)1306 Posts
A lot thought we were just paranoid that "the system was out to get us bro". Those of us who were actually whisked away to jails and detention centers for "questioning" by suits and federal agents didn't find it all very amusing. | ||
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HanFuzi
Israel80 Posts
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micronesia
United States24799 Posts
In this case though, the ability to sell debt seems to be helping the borrower. | ||
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dudeman001
United States2412 Posts
After sifting through the document that journalist talked about, most of it was documentation of how Occupy activities were distrupting normal business activity. Maybe the utter bias in that journalist's article ticked me off a bit, but I fail to see how what she wrote about matches what's actually documented. If someone can tell me what pages she's talking about when it comes to corporate-state collaboration to sabotage the protests I'll be happy to discuss it, but it's hard to find what she's talking about in 112 pages of files. | ||
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HanFuzi
Israel80 Posts
On December 30 2012 05:44 micronesia wrote: I never understood the concept of buying/selling debt (aside from mafia style loan sharks). If company A lends me money, and later they want to sell the debt to company B, I don't see how they can do that without my authorization. Otherwise, from my perspective I still owe the money to company A regardless of what private shenanigans company A and company B had. In this case though, the ability to sell debt seems to be helping the borrower. Have you read the terms of every loan you ever took? Probably not, because they are buried in a mountain of legalese. | ||
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sCCrooked
Korea (South)1306 Posts
On December 30 2012 05:37 HanFuzi wrote: Without a clear plan of action, how can they be anything more than a bunch of kids who like causing trouble? You might want to have actually read more about what this organization was/is before making a statement like that. What you've said there is just an off-shoot of what the media owned by Murdoch and the other big media corporations were spamming on their networks: "These are a bunch of dirty hippies with no organization and no message" This is a complete lie. I am a retired original founding member with this group. Since long before anyone really heard about us in mass, we already had a message. Big businesses and big money need to be reformed or gotten rid of altogether. "Too Big to Fail" and whatnot are phrases we throw around very lightly these days. Back in the days of the Standard Oil Trust and the whole debacle there, "Too Big To Fail" was a huge issue and people rallied against it. If you study the history of money, you'll see its nothing but a product like iPods or anything else and its got a huge monopoly that no government will recognize as a monopoly because they're under that monopoly's paycheck and they believe that without them, "The Good Life" will end for them. | ||
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HanFuzi
Israel80 Posts
On December 30 2012 05:56 sCCrooked wrote: You might want to have actually read more about what this organization was/is before making a statement like that. What you've said there is just an off-shoot of what the media owned by Murdoch and the other big media corporations were spamming on their networks: "These are a bunch of dirty hippies with no organization and no message" This is a complete lie. I am a retired original founding member with this group. Since long before anyone really heard about us in mass, we already had a message. Big businesses and big money need to be reformed or gotten rid of altogether. "Too Big to Fail" and whatnot are phrases we throw around very lightly these days. Back in the days of the Standard Oil Trust and the whole debacle there, "Too Big To Fail" was a huge issue and people rallied against it. If you study the history of money, you'll see its nothing but a product like iPods or anything else and its got a huge monopoly that no government will recognize as a monopoly because they're under that monopoly's paycheck and they believe that without them, "The Good Life" will end for them. Sure, you made note of a problem, and I agree that that is a problem. Got a solution more helpful than "fix it!"? | ||
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Shiragaku
Hong Kong4308 Posts
On December 30 2012 05:59 HanFuzi wrote: Sure, you made note of a problem, and I agree that that is a problem. Got a solution more helpful than "fix it!"? When you are a leftist, you are in conflict with lots of other leftist ideologies. You should check out the arguments between communists, anarchists, social democrats, and democratic socialists. | ||
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HanFuzi
Israel80 Posts
On December 30 2012 06:03 Shiragaku wrote: When you are a leftist, you are in conflict with lots of other leftist ideologies. You should check out the arguments between communists, anarchists, social democrats, and democratic socialists. Nevertheless, they can come together to form a solution. A proposed solution is far more effective than merely raising the issue. | ||
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Shiragaku
Hong Kong4308 Posts
On December 30 2012 06:05 HanFuzi wrote: Nevertheless, they can come together to form a solution. A proposed solution is far more effective than merely raising the issue. Leninists, Francoists, and Maoists unified everyone with a gun and shoot those who dissent and use cult-like propaganda, democracy is the most precious thing we hold dear to. I am 100 percent in agreement with that statement as well as everyone else, but I doubt you would want to compromise your ideology to someone who you find plain despicable, even if their beliefs are on the same spectrum as yours. | ||
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sCCrooked
Korea (South)1306 Posts
On December 30 2012 06:05 HanFuzi wrote: Nevertheless, they can come together to form a solution. A proposed solution is far more effective than merely raising the issue. Who are we supposed to propose this solution to? All members of all governments who have ever taken a loan from the World Bank, IMF or the Federal Reserve are under their direct control and influence. There is no governing body to submit real concerns to. The worst thing is nobody realizes how far this trust has stretched its tentacles. It owns every official, military-affiliated person, person who receives a paycheck from any company that has ever received a loan/grant/etc and every government office right down to the street police. There's no order that's not manipulated. No decision that's allowed without their consent. Even a massive movement involving literally thousands marching and hundreds of thousands more supporting at home got stumped because the media spammed flat-out lies on all channels and all newspapers. Sadly people are dumb enough to even read or watch all this obviously-manipulated and skewed information and take it all to heart without asking any sort of questions as to where it came from or how they arrived at their conclusions. Also a solution was conceived many years ago by a group we were working very closely with. They developed a documentary on the true history of America and how money has been manipulated and changed since the Medieval ages in Europe. The documentary was aired for many years on PBS before being ordered off the air from a mysterious contributor to the network who made a very considerable donation for their cooperation. The identity of this contributor was never revealed. The documentary is entitled "The Money Masters" and only the most intelligent people will even be able to wrap their minds around the level of manipulation that has gone on over the last millennium or so. Even less will be able to watch the whole thing, as its easily over 3 hours long and the narrator is rather mono-toned. If you can get past childish boredom setting in and sit still to let it all absorb, you will find it incredibly informative. You will also probably understand our position much like the well-known documentary on Greece's monetary issue does. There's nobody we can go to. All touched by this system are a part of it and will likely defend it because they're non-thinking and brainwashed through GMO, drugs and other external factors like money worries. | ||
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