On November 18 2011 11:32 Enki wrote: Soooo the elderly don't have the right to be out protesting because they are old, and who knows if the police will lose their shit and start spraying mace in their face? Are you trolling?
Miraculously, I made it through the day today without being maced by police, beat up, had tear gas thrown at me, or otherwise victimized by "police brutality". Of course, I didn't go obstruct traffic, block people from getting to work, instigate shit with cops, throw broken glass at police, or otherwise provoke them to bring me into compliance with the law. I am already a law-abiding citizen.
I'm also not convinced that Olsen was hit by the police as opposed to protestors themselves.
I've seen you post a lot in this thread and I haven't posted too much in here. Mostly just lurked and stuff. But I always had this sneaking suspicious that you were a troll. That or you grew up in the most Conservatively brain washed household to grace America.
This post pretty much convinced me that you have got to be a troll.
On November 18 2011 11:32 Enki wrote: Soooo the elderly don't have the right to be out protesting because they are old, and who knows if the police will lose their shit and start spraying mace in their face? Are you trolling?
Miraculously, I made it through the day today without being maced by police, beat up, had tear gas thrown at me, or otherwise victimized by "police brutality". Of course, I didn't go obstruct traffic, block people from getting to work, instigate shit with cops, throw broken glass at police, or otherwise provoke them to bring me into compliance with the law. I am already a law-abiding citizen.
I'm also not convinced that Olsen was hit by the police as opposed to protestors themselves.
I've seen you post a lot in this thread and I haven't posted too much in here. Mostly just lurked and stuff. But I always had this sneaking suspicious that you were a troll. That or you grew up in the most Conservatively brain washed household to grace America.
This post pretty much convinced me that you have got to be a troll.
Why, does an opposing point of view scare you and make your head spin with incomprehension ? Did you watch the video linked ? Perhaps we can both agree that it's pretty funny and start from there.
On November 18 2011 11:44 Reaper9 wrote: Of course lobbying is the problem. Which happens to be one of the goals many people share, in the movement or not. To get the money out of politics.
Agree with this 100% along with term limits for all state and federal. But to do this we just need to elect some leaders and not self serving politicians. See I agree with OWS I think just not at all with their methods.
On November 18 2011 10:19 Lucidx wrote: This protest is sadly a bunch of mis-informed individuals. One can conclude that these people are angry because of the gap between rich and poor, how it's not fair that someone could be so rich.
This becomes a fundamental question of why is it unfair for someone to be rich? Let us put aside corruption, as cooperate corruption is unfair and I fully understand anger towards corrupt business practices. For example, If you believe OWS statistics, that would put my (broken) family in the 1%.
We weren't always here. My father was a police officer, and my mother was a nurse, both working full time to support the family. Then, my father took a big risk and quit his job to become a self employed consultant. He worked 15 hours a day, sometimes more, for 10 years to make his dream a reality. And now he's here, making enough to support two households comfortably.
Why demonize my father? What did he do wrong? By working hard for his family to live a comfortable lifestyle, he is now the target of these foolish protesters. Why is it unfair that he followed the American dream? That he defied the odds and made a profitable small business out of nothing.
OWS sympathizers, enlighten me. Tell me why my father is such a terrible rich person. Tell me why Apple, who made that iPhone that you're using to tweet about OWS is so bad to the 98%. I'm curious.
If you don't already know why wealth inequality is bad, there's not much we can do for you.
Also, anecdotal evidence is not acceptable in any real contest of ideas.
I'm quite aware that wealth inequality is economically unstable, and lead to the great depression, etc. Fine. Then remove the anecdote. Why is it unfair for someone to obey the law and make a successful business?
Hi, how are you? How about you sit down because this is going to hurt. I have a feeling you're a moron and are in need of some educating.
The inequality in the U.S. is a direct result of CRONY-CAPITALISM and make believe democracy. In no WAY do the current drastically low tax rates help small or new business. It is estimated that the beneficiaries of these breaks are in fact the MEGA corporations.
Now these extreme breaks were not enough motivation for your loved ones the super greedy, so they created very special products to trade on. CDO, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collateralized_debt_obligation , which are in essence HORRIBLE loans they've forced, lied, and tricked low income families into and repackaged. They repackage them, mark them as AAA rating and resell them into the market. Remember these are loans they know are going to fail.
Documentary covering this VERY REAL practice, which under most interpretation of the law is fraud. Watch or shut up.
Next; when their bubble burst and they were supposed to fail and be broken up, as a real free market would call for, they received an enormous government hand out. Sounds like socialism, but not for everyone. The rest of us get crony capitalism while the elites have government security blankets. If you think the 2008 bailout was bad:
These policies were allowed and encouraged by a very corrupt government. Why would they not support these kinds of policies? After their "public service" they become board members and cash out. Still following along here?
So now that we understand how the income inequality was generated entirely by the: apathy of the america people as they were secretly being fucked and the corporate plutocracy who now own your country its time to debunk some the ABSURD solutions being presented by those who got us here:
He's right. Do your own research; he's right. How about some of the tax proposals?
Record people who can't even get food? Hmmm better hope that government the elites have trained the uneducated to destroy isn't actually destroyed or the streets are going to be a lot more depressing.
It's a pretty devastating situation but it is not without hope. However the uneducated and unwilling, such as yourself, are making it harder for those who actually know whats going on to succeed. Not only does OWS recognize these grave financial injustices but many others : environmental devastation by corporatism, military complex/empire building etc etc....
OWS understands, and is trying to at least call attention to these issues whilst offering REAL solutions:
So no. It's not small businesses that they are against or even large business following the laws that ensure consumer protection and competition. They are very against those who currently ignore, lobby against, and bribe the agencies trying to enforce the law. What part of that CORRUPTION is not clear?
You can feel free to welcome your new Corporate overlords with open arms; while they pay 0% taxes and gut your social programs. Most rational people see this as unacceptable however and that's why OWS is growing.
From now on, all of you OWS doubters, inform yourself, inform others and just try thinking. Please.
Hm. You seem a bit confused. Linking documentaries from obviously biased sources isn't going to sway anyone's opinions.
Lobbying is the problem, you idiot. Lobbying is at the root of all problems in the country. so please, spare me the hyper liberal documentaries and conspiracies and look at it from a mathematical and historical standpoint.
I specifically cover the lobbying issue under the CORRUPT GOVERNMENT sections. I love arguing with the clearly retarded because they just make shit up. All of those sources are the MEDIA what else can I link you, they all provide their direct sources too. Majority of which are the actual statistics.
Again I see NO EVIDENCE what so ever from you to support any of your nonsense. 0 evidence. Lobbying is a LARGE problem, but who is doing the lobbying? Hm? Exactly corporate OWNERS.
Provide ANY evidence to back up your nonsense and then MAYBE you can claim my "sources" to be biased. As it stands now you're just blowing hot hair.
Ah yes, the media. What a reliable source. Did you not just rant about how the media is payed off? Keep caps locking, bro.
On November 18 2011 11:32 Enki wrote: Soooo the elderly don't have the right to be out protesting because they are old, and who knows if the police will lose their shit and start spraying mace in their face? Are you trolling?
Miraculously, I made it through the day today without being maced by police, beat up, had tear gas thrown at me, or otherwise victimized by "police brutality". Of course, I didn't go obstruct traffic, block people from getting to work, instigate shit with cops, throw broken glass at police, or otherwise provoke them to bring me into compliance with the law. I am already a law-abiding citizen.
I'm also not convinced that Olsen was hit by the police as opposed to protestors themselves.
I've seen you post a lot in this thread and I haven't posted too much in here. Mostly just lurked and stuff. But I always had this sneaking suspicious that you were a troll. That or you grew up in the most Conservatively brain washed household to grace America.
This post pretty much convinced me that you have got to be a troll.
Why, does an opposing point of view scare you and make your head spin with incomprehension ? Did you watch the video linked ? Perhaps we can both agree that it's pretty funny and start from there.
You don't scare me. It's just that the things you post on here are completely ridiculous. I won't go any further on this as I don't really want to derail this thread anymore than I may have.
On November 18 2011 10:19 Lucidx wrote: This protest is sadly a bunch of mis-informed individuals. One can conclude that these people are angry because of the gap between rich and poor, how it's not fair that someone could be so rich.
This becomes a fundamental question of why is it unfair for someone to be rich? Let us put aside corruption, as cooperate corruption is unfair and I fully understand anger towards corrupt business practices. For example, If you believe OWS statistics, that would put my (broken) family in the 1%.
We weren't always here. My father was a police officer, and my mother was a nurse, both working full time to support the family. Then, my father took a big risk and quit his job to become a self employed consultant. He worked 15 hours a day, sometimes more, for 10 years to make his dream a reality. And now he's here, making enough to support two households comfortably.
Why demonize my father? What did he do wrong? By working hard for his family to live a comfortable lifestyle, he is now the target of these foolish protesters. Why is it unfair that he followed the American dream? That he defied the odds and made a profitable small business out of nothing.
OWS sympathizers, enlighten me. Tell me why my father is such a terrible rich person. Tell me why Apple, who made that iPhone that you're using to tweet about OWS is so bad to the 98%. I'm curious.
If you don't already know why wealth inequality is bad, there's not much we can do for you.
Also, anecdotal evidence is not acceptable in any real contest of ideas.
I'm quite aware that wealth inequality is economically unstable, and lead to the great depression, etc. Fine. Then remove the anecdote. Why is it unfair for someone to obey the law and make a successful business?
Hi, how are you? How about you sit down because this is going to hurt. I have a feeling you're a moron and are in need of some educating.
The inequality in the U.S. is a direct result of CRONY-CAPITALISM and make believe democracy. In no WAY do the current drastically low tax rates help small or new business. It is estimated that the beneficiaries of these breaks are in fact the MEGA corporations.
Now these extreme breaks were not enough motivation for your loved ones the super greedy, so they created very special products to trade one. CDO, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collateralized_debt_obligation , which are in essence HORRIBLE loans they've forced, lied, and tricked low income families into and repackaged. They repackage them, mark them as AAA rating and resell them into the market. Remember these are loans they know are going to fail.
Documentary covering this VERY REAL practice, which under most interpretation of the law is fraud. Watch or shut up.
Next; when their bubble burst and they were supposed to fail and be broken up, as a real free market would call for, they received an enormous government hand out. Sounds like socialism, but not for everyone. The rest of us get crony capitalism while the elites have government security blankets. If you think the 2008 bailout was bad:
These policies were allowed and encouraged by a very corrupt government. Why would they not support these kinds of policies? After their "public service" they become board members and cash out. Still following along here?
I more or less agree with this, the idea of "crony-capitalism" as a major issue. Our government's power to hand out these subsidies, encourage the risky lending, and then bail out the failures, while failing to jail any who broke the law.
On November 18 2011 11:14 jmack wrote: So now that we understand how the income inequality was generated entirely by the: apathy of the america people as they were secretly being fucked and the corporate plutocracy who now own your country its time to debunk some the ABSURD solutions being presented by those who got us here:
Those look like solutions? Remember to clear your head of the nonsense disproved by Reich.
Robert Reich is full of crap.
1.) Straw-man. All profits trickle up. "Trickle-down economics" is just an insulting way to refer to supply-side economics, which doesn't make the claims that Reich seems to be refuting.
2.) He picks an arbitrary point in time to make his argument, a time in which nobody was actually paying anything close to the top tax rate. The tax code got cleaned up in the 80s under Reagan (though more should be done), and as a result the tax rates were lowered. In short; less loopholes now, but also a lower top marginal rate.
3.) Sure, shrinking governments loses us government jobs, but that labor is freed up for the private market. The private market is simply more efficient than the government at allocating labor. The government could employ 10,000 people tomorrow digging holes, and another 10,000 filling them in again, but those aren't productive jobs, and those 20,000 people are no longer available for work in the private sector.
4.) Government spending crowds out private investment. Essentially, as the government borrows more money to fund additional spending, they tend to increase market interest rates. That in turn makes it more difficult for the private sector to borrow.
5.) Medicare/Medicaid costs are rising because its government subsidized (like student loans). "Consumers" don't know or care how much a procedure actually costs, so prices continue to climb. Ex: What if your car insurance was government subsidized, and paid for the mundane (gas, oil changes) in addition to the catastrophic.
6.) Worst one on the list. Social Security is the very definition of a ponzi scheme. You might argue that it is a beneficial ponzi scheme, but to claim it isn't one is just comical.
7.) I can get behind this in a way, our tax code does need more work. I do think that there's something a bit off in allowing the majority to dictate that the minority should give them more of their money, though.
On November 18 2011 11:14 jmack wrote: It's still america thought right? It can't really be THAT bad? Wrong:
Essentially everyone's shared in the economic growth in the US. The poor just haven't shared "enough."
On November 18 2011 11:14 jmack wrote: Record people who can't even get food? Hmmm better hope that government the elites have trained the uneducated to destroy isn't actually destroyed or the streets are going to be a lot more depressing.
It's a pretty devastating situation but it is not without hope. However the uneducated and unwilling, such as yourself, are making it harder for those who actually know whats going on to succeed. Not only does OWS recognize these grave financial injustices but many others : environmental devastation by corporatism, military complex/empire building etc etc....
OWS understands, and is trying to at least call attention to these issues whilst offering REAL solutions:
So no. It's not small businesses that they are against or even large business following the laws that ensure consumer protection and competition. They are very against those who currently ignore, lobby against, and bribe the agencies trying to enforce the law. What part of that CORRUPTION is not clear?
You can feel free to welcome your new Corporate overlords with open arms; while they pay 0% taxes and gut your social programs. Most rational people see this as unacceptable however and that's why OWS is growing.
From now on, all of you OWS doubters, inform yourself, inform others and just try thinking. Please.
Glass-Steagall should have remained in place, but only because it is necessary to counter-act another big government mistake; FDIC guaranteed deposits.
On November 18 2011 11:32 Enki wrote: Soooo the elderly don't have the right to be out protesting because they are old, and who knows if the police will lose their shit and start spraying mace in their face? Are you trolling?
I'm also not convinced that Olsen was hit by the police as opposed to protestors themselves.
This is utterly laughable. Are you trying to make yourself look foolish?
Perhaps I've missed the proof of the source of the injury. I've only heard / read allegations that it was the police, however those allegations were made by protest supporters. The police deny it. So, I guess I'm just not as quick to convict as you guys are.
On November 18 2011 11:32 Enki wrote: Soooo the elderly don't have the right to be out protesting because they are old, and who knows if the police will lose their shit and start spraying mace in their face? Are you trolling?
Miraculously, I made it through the day today without being maced by police, beat up, had tear gas thrown at me, or otherwise victimized by "police brutality". Of course, I didn't go obstruct traffic, block people from getting to work, instigate shit with cops, throw broken glass at police, or otherwise provoke them to bring me into compliance with the law. I am already a law-abiding citizen.
I'm also not convinced that Olsen was hit by the police as opposed to protestors themselves.
You know from your description it sounds like the G8 anarchists have descended on wall street. Have you watched any of the on the ground livestreams like wearethe99 at ustream? I watched several hours straight, (specifically the eviction night) and found that as a whole although they were taking up space on the streets, they were pretty peaceable, were fairly friendly with the police (and vice-versa.) While I watched there was one set of bandana anarchist types letting air out of the tires that had nothing to do with the movement. As a whole they were fairly content that the police were behaving professionally while breaking up the large groups. Elsewhere, I've heard that when police began using batons to break the locked arms, the OWC was reminding their people to not lash out to give police the provocation they want.
The OWC are protesting sure, but they are for the most part they've been pretty peacable about it despite some fringe elements that join for the express purpose of using the large group as cover for their vandalism and provocation.
On November 18 2011 11:44 Reaper9 wrote: Of course lobbying is the problem. Which happens to be one of the goals many people share, in the movement or not. To get the money out of politics.
Agree with this 100% along with term limits for all state and federal. But to do this we just need to elect some leaders and not self serving politicians. See I agree with OWS I think just not at all with their methods.
As do I, just no those who call for socialism. Yes, term limits are needed as well.
I have a question. If lobbying and money are a problem in politics, how does one fix it? You can't stop people from lobbying and you also cant stop people from donating to campaigns.
On November 18 2011 11:44 Reaper9 wrote: Of course lobbying is the problem. Which happens to be one of the goals many people share, in the movement or not. To get the money out of politics.
Agree with this 100% along with term limits for all state and federal. But to do this we just need to elect some leaders and not self serving politicians. See I agree with OWS I think just not at all with their methods.
As do I, just no those who call for socialism. Yes, term limits are needed as well.
But, do non-self serving politicians exist? :/
They are there, they are just rare and never get the spotlight.
On November 18 2011 11:32 Enki wrote: Soooo the elderly don't have the right to be out protesting because they are old, and who knows if the police will lose their shit and start spraying mace in their face? Are you trolling?
Miraculously, I made it through the day today without being maced by police, beat up, had tear gas thrown at me, or otherwise victimized by "police brutality". Of course, I didn't go obstruct traffic, block people from getting to work, instigate shit with cops, throw broken glass at police, or otherwise provoke them to bring me into compliance with the law. I am already a law-abiding citizen.
I'm also not convinced that Olsen was hit by the police as opposed to protestors themselves.
I've seen you post a lot in this thread and I haven't posted too much in here. Mostly just lurked and stuff. But I always had this sneaking suspicious that you were a troll. That or you grew up in the most Conservatively brain washed household to grace America.
This post pretty much convinced me that you have got to be a troll.
I have seen the term brain washed thrown around a lot in this thread. If you are with the OWS folks you seem to be a real free thinker who "gets it" and sees all those interconnected strings of conspiracy and the hidden bars that confine us like dogs in a cage of our seemingly frree society.
Those who don't agree with either the OWS message or their methods are brainwashed right wingers simple sheep living their whole lives just waiting for the slaughter slaving away to enrich "the man"....
The Irony is (based on the poll on the front page) the real alternative thinkers seems to be those not 100% behind this movement.
On November 18 2011 11:55 relyt wrote: I have a question. If lobbying and money are a problem in politics, how does one fix it? You can't stop people from lobbying and you also cant stop people from donating to campaigns.
Make corporate and union-based lobbying against the law. It is in other countries.
On November 18 2011 10:19 Lucidx wrote: This protest is sadly a bunch of mis-informed individuals. One can conclude that these people are angry because of the gap between rich and poor, how it's not fair that someone could be so rich.
This becomes a fundamental question of why is it unfair for someone to be rich? Let us put aside corruption, as cooperate corruption is unfair and I fully understand anger towards corrupt business practices. For example, If you believe OWS statistics, that would put my (broken) family in the 1%.
We weren't always here. My father was a police officer, and my mother was a nurse, both working full time to support the family. Then, my father took a big risk and quit his job to become a self employed consultant. He worked 15 hours a day, sometimes more, for 10 years to make his dream a reality. And now he's here, making enough to support two households comfortably.
Why demonize my father? What did he do wrong? By working hard for his family to live a comfortable lifestyle, he is now the target of these foolish protesters. Why is it unfair that he followed the American dream? That he defied the odds and made a profitable small business out of nothing.
OWS sympathizers, enlighten me. Tell me why my father is such a terrible rich person. Tell me why Apple, who made that iPhone that you're using to tweet about OWS is so bad to the 98%. I'm curious.
If you don't already know why wealth inequality is bad, there's not much we can do for you.
Also, anecdotal evidence is not acceptable in any real contest of ideas.
I'm quite aware that wealth inequality is economically unstable, and lead to the great depression, etc. Fine. Then remove the anecdote. Why is it unfair for someone to obey the law and make a successful business?
Hi, how are you? How about you sit down because this is going to hurt. I have a feeling you're a moron and are in need of some educating.
The inequality in the U.S. is a direct result of CRONY-CAPITALISM and make believe democracy. In no WAY do the current drastically low tax rates help small or new business. It is estimated that the beneficiaries of these breaks are in fact the MEGA corporations.
Now these extreme breaks were not enough motivation for your loved ones the super greedy, so they created very special products to trade on. CDO, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collateralized_debt_obligation , which are in essence HORRIBLE loans they've forced, lied, and tricked low income families into and repackaged. They repackage them, mark them as AAA rating and resell them into the market. Remember these are loans they know are going to fail.
Documentary covering this VERY REAL practice, which under most interpretation of the law is fraud. Watch or shut up.
Next; when their bubble burst and they were supposed to fail and be broken up, as a real free market would call for, they received an enormous government hand out. Sounds like socialism, but not for everyone. The rest of us get crony capitalism while the elites have government security blankets. If you think the 2008 bailout was bad:
These policies were allowed and encouraged by a very corrupt government. Why would they not support these kinds of policies? After their "public service" they become board members and cash out. Still following along here?
So now that we understand how the income inequality was generated entirely by the: apathy of the america people as they were secretly being fucked and the corporate plutocracy who now own your country its time to debunk some the ABSURD solutions being presented by those who got us here:
Record people who can't even get food? Hmmm better hope that government the elites have trained the uneducated to destroy isn't actually destroyed or the streets are going to be a lot more depressing.
It's a pretty devastating situation but it is not without hope. However the uneducated and unwilling, such as yourself, are making it harder for those who actually know whats going on to succeed. Not only does OWS recognize these grave financial injustices but many others : environmental devastation by corporatism, military complex/empire building etc etc....
OWS understands, and is trying to at least call attention to these issues whilst offering REAL solutions:
So no. It's not small businesses that they are against or even large business following the laws that ensure consumer protection and competition. They are very against those who currently ignore, lobby against, and bribe the agencies trying to enforce the law. What part of that CORRUPTION is not clear?
You can feel free to welcome your new Corporate overlords with open arms; while they pay 0% taxes and gut your social programs. Most rational people see this as unacceptable however and that's why OWS is growing.
From now on, all of you OWS doubters, inform yourself, inform others and just try thinking. Please.
Hm. You seem a bit confused. Linking documentaries from obviously biased sources isn't going to sway anyone's opinions.
Lobbying is the problem, you idiot. Lobbying is at the root of all problems in the country. so please, spare me the hyper liberal documentaries and conspiracies and look at it from a mathematical and historical standpoint.
I specifically cover the lobbying issue under the CORRUPT GOVERNMENT sections. I love arguing with the clearly retarded because they just make shit up. All of those sources are the MEDIA what else can I link you, they all provide their direct sources too. Majority of which are the actual statistics.
Again I see NO EVIDENCE what so ever from you to support any of your nonsense. 0 evidence. Lobbying is a LARGE problem, but who is doing the lobbying? Hm? Exactly corporate OWNERS.
Provide ANY evidence to back up your nonsense and then MAYBE you can claim my "sources" to be biased. As it stands now you're just blowing hot hair.
Ah yes, the media. What a reliable source. Did you not just rant about how the media is payed off? Keep caps locking, bro.
So you've moved past the actual points? Becuase you got utterly destroyed and have yet to post a single source. Or make a single valid point. In fact I doubt you are CAPABLE OF MAKING A VALID POINT.
THE CAPS LOCK IS BECAUSE I KNOW YOUR READING SKILLS ARE SO SUB PAR YOU ARE MERELY SKIMMING ALL THE INFORMATION I AM TRYING TO FORCE FEED YOU. THIS HELPS YOU KNOW WHAT TO PAY ATTENTION TO WITH YOUR LIMITED BRAIN POWER. O and I don't need sources to back up my claim that you never posted sources, like seriously? All of my points about the ISSUES come with sources, again unlike yours. THINK(remember emphasis!)
On November 18 2011 11:32 Enki wrote: Soooo the elderly don't have the right to be out protesting because they are old, and who knows if the police will lose their shit and start spraying mace in their face? Are you trolling?
I'm also not convinced that Olsen was hit by the police as opposed to protestors themselves.
This is utterly laughable. Are you trying to make yourself look foolish?
Perhaps I've missed the proof of the source of the injury. I've only heard / read allegations that it was the police, however those allegations were made by protest supporters. The police deny it. So, I guess I'm just not as quick to convict as you guys are.
Perhaps you should watch the video where he is shot in the head by a tear gas canister? And then the part where police throw a flashbang into the people running to help him? Perhaps you should even consider looking at the original evidence in the future?
On November 18 2011 11:55 relyt wrote: I have a question. If lobbying and money are a problem in politics, how does one fix it? You can't stop people from lobbying and you also cant stop people from donating to campaigns.
Reduce the power of government to hand out the boons these lobbyists clamor for.
On November 18 2011 11:55 relyt wrote: I have a question. If lobbying and money are a problem in politics, how does one fix it? You can't stop people from lobbying and you also cant stop people from donating to campaigns.
I, for one, would love to see accepting "campaign contributions" included in the bribery statutes. Of course, we'd have to deal with how do politicians get their message out, and I suppose we could come up with some requirement of the media to devote a certain amount of time to political advertising instead of political campaigns spending money on it. Perhaps the media companies with access to the White House or other government press rooms, in exchange for their access, are required to carry candidates' political messages. Eliminate the money flowing to politicians by making it illegal. Then maybe we could get an honest politician.
On November 18 2011 11:55 relyt wrote: I have a question. If lobbying and money are a problem in politics, how does one fix it? You can't stop people from lobbying and you also cant stop people from donating to campaigns.
I think we just kind of need to break the apathy. Mayube OWS will atleast do this get more people to the polls for the next election but Both the Dem and Republican candidates will be more of the same this go around. Obama was a real chance people who don't normally vote did vote and put him into office with a powerful mandate.
Unfortunately (in my view) it turns out he was a better campaigner than president and kind of wasted his chance, he is just another politician.
EPT
