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On November 15 2011 20:48 -Archangel- wrote:
As people have been saying for 100 pages now, probably nothing will change until the people are ready to put their blood behind their words. People in power will not give up their power to people saying Please. That only happens in Hollywood movies.
nothing will change unless there is international hands involve in this. The cops are equipped with military tech and the power to control media is just beyond anything that could be handle locally inside the country from 'the 99%'. I think it just bc this is New York city other wise they would have blocked satellite disk with some EMP air craft :-/ Without twitter and electricity, yeah dont even think about evolution against the US gov.....
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Mayor Bloomberg holding a press conference. Demonstrators of Occupy wall Street denied entrance. Demonstrators complain it is a public building, they should have the right to enter. Decision is being made to barricade the press from going in the building as protest.
Dis-agreement over issue. Protestors decide to link up with religious leaders and trade unions.
Flash news: Judge rules that Zucotti eviction was illegal, Mayor Bloomberg in the wrong, protestors have the right to return (even though all belongings were destroyed).
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If the police action was illegal, then in a just world, Bloomberg should be punished...but something tells me that is not going to happen.
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On November 15 2011 23:30 Shiragaku wrote:
If the police action was illegal, then in a just world, Bloomberg should be punished...but something tells me that is not going to happen.
What is illegal about evicting people from a private park?
Those that left when asked to leave had no issues, those that resisted were met with force.
A quote from one of those protesters.
Mr. Letto, a resident of Bushwick, Brooklyn, said the two were in a tent talking when flood lights lit the park and police began giving orders. A police officer eventually came to their tent and read from prepared statement telling them to leave. The two decided to pack and head to Ms. Greenfield's apartment on the Upper West Side to regroup.
"They gave us 15 to 20 minutes to pull all of our clothes and supplies together," Ms. Greenfield said. "They pretty much destroyed everything else. They pulled down tents and put them in the back of Dumpsters.
"I just grabbed what I could," Mr. Letto said. If it was your intention to leave, they gave you enough time to leave. It was actually surprising how quickly they got it cleaned out."
Link to full article
NYC has been very accomodating allowing the protesters to camp in violation of pre-existing rules and march without permits and such.
Free speech it up all day long but go home at night.
It just isn't safe and sanatarity to create a tent city in the middle of cities.
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On November 15 2011 23:47 mechavoc wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 23:30 Shiragaku wrote:
If the police action was illegal, then in a just world, Bloomberg should be punished...but something tells me that is not going to happen. What is illegal about evicting people from a private park? Those that left when asked to leave had no issues, those that resisted were met with force. A quote from one of those protesters. Show nested quote +Mr. Letto, a resident of Bushwick, Brooklyn, said the two were in a tent talking when flood lights lit the park and police began giving orders. A police officer eventually came to their tent and read from prepared statement telling them to leave. The two decided to pack and head to Ms. Greenfield's apartment on the Upper West Side to regroup.
"They gave us 15 to 20 minutes to pull all of our clothes and supplies together," Ms. Greenfield said. "They pretty much destroyed everything else. They pulled down tents and put them in the back of Dumpsters.
"I just grabbed what I could," Mr. Letto said. If it was your intention to leave, they gave you enough time to leave. It was actually surprising how quickly they got it cleaned out." Link to full articleNYC has been very accomodating allowing the protesters to camp in violation of pre-existing rules and march without permits and such. Free speech it up all day long but go home at night. It just isn't safe and sanatarity to create a tent city in the middle of cities.
What's the last completely legal protest that got this much media coverage and attention?
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The Iraq war protest in 2003?
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On November 15 2011 21:28 NB wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 20:48 -Archangel- wrote:
As people have been saying for 100 pages now, probably nothing will change until the people are ready to put their blood behind their words. People in power will not give up their power to people saying Please. That only happens in Hollywood movies. nothing will change unless there is international hands involve in this. The cops are equipped with military tech and the power to control media is just beyond anything that could be handle locally inside the country from 'the 99%'. I think it just bc this is New York city other wise they would have blocked satellite disk with some EMP air craft :-/ Without twitter and electricity, yeah dont even think about evolution against the US gov.....
NB What world are you living in?
EMP aircraft to blockout the media? You have been watching a few too many X-flies re-runs and playing too much Battlefield.
The cops cleared the protesters out, cleaned up the park threw out all their stuff.
Those that walked out and let them do their job were fine, those that resisted got hurt their choice.
The people can go back in the park and start protesting again toady injuury free if they made smart decisions last night.
They just can't sleep there....
No need for tin-foil hats here
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On November 15 2011 23:47 mechavoc wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 23:30 Shiragaku wrote:
If the police action was illegal, then in a just world, Bloomberg should be punished...but something tells me that is not going to happen. What is illegal about evicting people from a private park? Those that left when asked to leave had no issues, those that resisted were met with force. A quote from one of those protesters. Show nested quote +Mr. Letto, a resident of Bushwick, Brooklyn, said the two were in a tent talking when flood lights lit the park and police began giving orders. A police officer eventually came to their tent and read from prepared statement telling them to leave. The two decided to pack and head to Ms. Greenfield's apartment on the Upper West Side to regroup.
"They gave us 15 to 20 minutes to pull all of our clothes and supplies together," Ms. Greenfield said. "They pretty much destroyed everything else. They pulled down tents and put them in the back of Dumpsters.
"I just grabbed what I could," Mr. Letto said. If it was your intention to leave, they gave you enough time to leave. It was actually surprising how quickly they got it cleaned out." Link to full articleNYC has been very accomodating allowing the protesters to camp in violation of pre-existing rules and march without permits and such. Free speech it up all day long but go home at night. It just isn't safe and sanatarity to create a tent city in the middle of cities.
If you read that third reddit post you'll find that a judge issued a restraining order and ruled Bloomberg has no right to evict the protestors.
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On November 15 2011 23:59 Logo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 23:47 mechavoc wrote:On November 15 2011 23:30 Shiragaku wrote:
If the police action was illegal, then in a just world, Bloomberg should be punished...but something tells me that is not going to happen. What is illegal about evicting people from a private park? Those that left when asked to leave had no issues, those that resisted were met with force. A quote from one of those protesters. Mr. Letto, a resident of Bushwick, Brooklyn, said the two were in a tent talking when flood lights lit the park and police began giving orders. A police officer eventually came to their tent and read from prepared statement telling them to leave. The two decided to pack and head to Ms. Greenfield's apartment on the Upper West Side to regroup.
"They gave us 15 to 20 minutes to pull all of our clothes and supplies together," Ms. Greenfield said. "They pretty much destroyed everything else. They pulled down tents and put them in the back of Dumpsters.
"I just grabbed what I could," Mr. Letto said. If it was your intention to leave, they gave you enough time to leave. It was actually surprising how quickly they got it cleaned out." Link to full articleNYC has been very accomodating allowing the protesters to camp in violation of pre-existing rules and march without permits and such. Free speech it up all day long but go home at night. It just isn't safe and sanatarity to create a tent city in the middle of cities. What's the last completely legal protest that got this much media coverage and attention?
So it's ok to bend a few rules this way but not the other?
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And how much success did these Iraq protests have?
Like absolutely none?...
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Just a little perspective and perhaps painful dose of reality:
When the average American walks by, or sees pictures of, an Occupy site, they see what appears to be an enclave of homeless, drug abusers, lowlifes, and wild radical youths. (Note: these are not commonly considered good things.) Even if the Occupy protesters believe that they represent the majority's economic interest in this country, they do not resemble the majority in appearance or in lifestyle. Your average person dresses in an ordinary fashion, goes to and from their job everyday, then has a quiet night in front of the TV. They're not going to listen to the political opinion of some 22 year old kid with dreads, tattoos and bandanas. Picture your average middle-aged guy who has worked for 25 years of his life. You really think he's going to look to some 20-something protesters doing "peaceful" chanting--who have maybe worked, at most, 3 years of their lives--to get his political opinions? Those kids haven't lived half the life he has.
The average American may feel dismay about the economy. But they'd be even more dismayed at the idea of a bunch of ratty looking kids taking over their public spaces and guiding their politics. Middle-aged people roll their eyes at movements like this because they, too, likely went through a rebellious stage when they were teenagers, and they're embarrassed when they look back on it or see that behavior reflected in the youth. When you're 18-24, you simply cannot have any conception about how your outlook will change as you get older.
Know that your parents, or the generation before them (the baby boomers), rebelled even harder than the kids are now. And look how they turned out. By the time they hit their 30s in the 1980s, they were wearing power suits and climbing the corporate ladder.
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On November 16 2011 00:14 Velr wrote:
And how much success did these Iraq protests have?
Like absolutely none?...
Alright, so let's take a look at some of the protests well covered by the media that have been violent. For examples' sake, let's go with WTO in Seattle in 1999 (although any G20 meeting in the last decade will work too).
Were these more, less, or equally as successful than the 2003 Iraq protests?
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I just witnessed the crackdown on TV and was wondering if the movement is dead now? Can Occupy Wall street reinvent, regroup or something along those lines?
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The diffrence is:
WTO Seattle = Big media coverage = good for the protests (but stupid protest because it was more like a riot).
Ocuppy = Low media coverage = bad for the protest (and they even have some good demands).
The thing is:
Violence creates attention. Attention is important.
Btw: the avg. american also voted Bush jr.... Twice... So i think the world is (or would be) better of when it does not give a shit what the avg. american sees or thinks...
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On November 16 2011 00:14 overt wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 23:47 mechavoc wrote:On November 15 2011 23:30 Shiragaku wrote:
If the police action was illegal, then in a just world, Bloomberg should be punished...but something tells me that is not going to happen. What is illegal about evicting people from a private park? Those that left when asked to leave had no issues, those that resisted were met with force. A quote from one of those protesters. Mr. Letto, a resident of Bushwick, Brooklyn, said the two were in a tent talking when flood lights lit the park and police began giving orders. A police officer eventually came to their tent and read from prepared statement telling them to leave. The two decided to pack and head to Ms. Greenfield's apartment on the Upper West Side to regroup.
"They gave us 15 to 20 minutes to pull all of our clothes and supplies together," Ms. Greenfield said. "They pretty much destroyed everything else. They pulled down tents and put them in the back of Dumpsters.
"I just grabbed what I could," Mr. Letto said. If it was your intention to leave, they gave you enough time to leave. It was actually surprising how quickly they got it cleaned out." Link to full articleNYC has been very accomodating allowing the protesters to camp in violation of pre-existing rules and march without permits and such. Free speech it up all day long but go home at night. It just isn't safe and sanatarity to create a tent city in the middle of cities. If you read that third reddit post you'll find that a judge issued a restraining order and ruled Bloomberg has no right to evict the protestors.
I saw someone write that but I can't find a media report on it and checked the third reddit link and didn't see any link to a media source
http://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/mcsy3/occupy_wall_street_being_evicted_calls_all_hands/
I would gladly review a link though, from what I have read the request to evict came from the owner of the park as they want to enforce their rule for no overnight camping.
Mr. Bloomberg quickly took responsibility for the move, saying in a statement released before dawn that the park's owners had asked for the city's help in enforcing its rules against sleeping there, but that "the final decision to act was mine."
Link to full article
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On November 16 2011 00:23 mechavoc wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 00:14 overt wrote:On November 15 2011 23:47 mechavoc wrote:On November 15 2011 23:30 Shiragaku wrote:
If the police action was illegal, then in a just world, Bloomberg should be punished...but something tells me that is not going to happen. What is illegal about evicting people from a private park? Those that left when asked to leave had no issues, those that resisted were met with force. A quote from one of those protesters. Mr. Letto, a resident of Bushwick, Brooklyn, said the two were in a tent talking when flood lights lit the park and police began giving orders. A police officer eventually came to their tent and read from prepared statement telling them to leave. The two decided to pack and head to Ms. Greenfield's apartment on the Upper West Side to regroup.
"They gave us 15 to 20 minutes to pull all of our clothes and supplies together," Ms. Greenfield said. "They pretty much destroyed everything else. They pulled down tents and put them in the back of Dumpsters.
"I just grabbed what I could," Mr. Letto said. If it was your intention to leave, they gave you enough time to leave. It was actually surprising how quickly they got it cleaned out." Link to full articleNYC has been very accomodating allowing the protesters to camp in violation of pre-existing rules and march without permits and such. Free speech it up all day long but go home at night. It just isn't safe and sanatarity to create a tent city in the middle of cities. If you read that third reddit post you'll find that a judge issued a restraining order and ruled Bloomberg has no right to evict the protestors. I saw someone write that but I can't find a media report on it and checked the third reddit link and didn't see any link to a media source http://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/mcsy3/occupy_wall_street_being_evicted_calls_all_hands/I would gladly review a link though, from what I have read the request to evict came from the owner of the park as they want to enforce their rule for no overnight camping. Show nested quote +Mr. Bloomberg quickly took responsibility for the move, saying in a statement released before dawn that the park's owners had asked for the city's help in enforcing its rules against sleeping there, but that "the final decision to act was mine." Link to full article
Ctrl. + F judge.
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/266582-order-re-liberty-park/
Edit: media referencing the court order
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/mobile/world-us-canada-15732661?
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On November 16 2011 00:26 overt wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 00:23 mechavoc wrote:On November 16 2011 00:14 overt wrote:On November 15 2011 23:47 mechavoc wrote:On November 15 2011 23:30 Shiragaku wrote:
If the police action was illegal, then in a just world, Bloomberg should be punished...but something tells me that is not going to happen. What is illegal about evicting people from a private park? Those that left when asked to leave had no issues, those that resisted were met with force. A quote from one of those protesters. Mr. Letto, a resident of Bushwick, Brooklyn, said the two were in a tent talking when flood lights lit the park and police began giving orders. A police officer eventually came to their tent and read from prepared statement telling them to leave. The two decided to pack and head to Ms. Greenfield's apartment on the Upper West Side to regroup.
"They gave us 15 to 20 minutes to pull all of our clothes and supplies together," Ms. Greenfield said. "They pretty much destroyed everything else. They pulled down tents and put them in the back of Dumpsters.
"I just grabbed what I could," Mr. Letto said. If it was your intention to leave, they gave you enough time to leave. It was actually surprising how quickly they got it cleaned out." Link to full articleNYC has been very accomodating allowing the protesters to camp in violation of pre-existing rules and march without permits and such. Free speech it up all day long but go home at night. It just isn't safe and sanatarity to create a tent city in the middle of cities. If you read that third reddit post you'll find that a judge issued a restraining order and ruled Bloomberg has no right to evict the protestors. I saw someone write that but I can't find a media report on it and checked the third reddit link and didn't see any link to a media source http://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/mcsy3/occupy_wall_street_being_evicted_calls_all_hands/I would gladly review a link though, from what I have read the request to evict came from the owner of the park as they want to enforce their rule for no overnight camping. Mr. Bloomberg quickly took responsibility for the move, saying in a statement released before dawn that the park's owners had asked for the city's help in enforcing its rules against sleeping there, but that "the final decision to act was mine." Link to full article Ctrl. + F judge. https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/266582-order-re-liberty-park/ Edit: media referencing the court order http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/mobile/world-us-canada-15732661?
Thanks for the links,
The interenet is amazing, cool to see such a relevenat document so quickly online.
First one says the court is going to hear the argument, and that NYC can't keep people out of the park until the hearing today. Doesn't make a judgement or say anything NYC acted illegally.
But from that paper it looks like the case will be heard today at 11:30 so will be interesting to see what comes out of that.
From the second link I think referes to the first link you posted.
The National Lawyers Guild, which provides legal assistance to the movement, says it has obtained a court order that would allow protesters back into the park with their tents.
The authorities say the park has been cleared for cleaning, and that protesters would be allowed back into the park, but without the encampment.
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On November 16 2011 00:22 archonOOid wrote:
I just witnessed the crackdown on TV and was wondering if the movement is dead now? Can Occupy Wall street reinvent, regroup or something along those lines?
Nope not dead, there is a plan to stage a large Occupy rally around the new World Trade Center building 7 this weekend.
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It seems to me that the only real people who suffer from these protests are small business owners and normal people who want to hang out in the park. Rich bankers couldn't care less about the OWS protests.
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EPT
