The US debt (proper debate) - Page 23

On July 27 2011 02:30 BlackFlag wrote:

STOP LYING! I nowhere in this thread adcovated government monolopy. Or could you maybe show me the part where I am in favor of government monopoly?

On July 27 2011 02:10 BestZergOnEast wrote:
Yeah, but without private ownership of the means of production no one really gives a fuck to go out and invent something, since they don't get any benefit from doing so. In fact they would probably get punished for slacking off work if they attempted to invent something, since without private property you need a state to force people to do things or they don't get done.

On July 27 2011 02:20 DetriusXii wrote:
You said, "without private property, no one gives a fuck to go out and do stuff". But people in Open Source communities do give a fuck and do stuff. This is a contradiction. Your initial assumption is wrong.

On July 27 2011 02:28 domovoi wrote:

Talk about logic fail.

1) You say: open, democratic anti-capitalist society would be better.
2) I say: all open, democratic societies have been capitalist, moreover all anti-capitalist societies have been totalitarian. So no reason to think a democratic, anti-capitalist society is possible.
3) You say: but some capitalist societies were totalitarian!

Do you see the logical fallacy?

OSS licenses like the GPL require a strong copyright regime to be of any use.

On July 27 2011 02:31 domovoi wrote:

How're you going to form an anti-capitalist society if you allow capitalists?

On July 27 2011 02:36 BestZergOnEast wrote:
yeah, like the modern example of the spanish anarchists, who in the spirit of a free and open democratic society slaughtered thousands for their political beliefs.

On July 27 2011 02:34 BlackFlag wrote:
read again

I said that there were "relativly" (for the time) open societies before capitalism (which were not anti-capitalist, because that didn't exist for that time). What do you think where the technology that leads to our modern live came from?

There are also modern examples, but they always got crushed by outside influence within a relativly short time, because they were deemed a threat.

On July 27 2011 02:33 domovoi wrote:

OSS licenses like the GPL require a strong copyright regime to be of any use. They are not releasing their software into the public domain, that's for sure.

On July 27 2011 02:36 BlackFlag wrote:


I myself am going to create no society by myself, because I am not a dictator and I reject to force my views on others. Also your question is rather naive because it doesn't work that way.

On July 27 2011 02:40 DetriusXii wrote:


It's because they don't want someone else to later to steal the property, patent it, claim it as their own, and shut down future work.

The work is still being done for free without direct monetary incentive. it doesn't defeat the argument that collective work is being performed without a clear product that generates revenue.

On July 27 2011 02:39 domovoi wrote:

Capitalism has always existed, even in pre-agricultural societies.

On July 27 2011 02:39 domovoi wrote:

Capitalism has always existed, even in pre-agricultural societies.

Name a few then. Show me some examples of successful open, democratic, anti-capitalist societies.

On July 27 2011 02:49 BlackFlag wrote:


Abuse of the common people always existed, not capitalism. It's akward to call anything before ~1800 capitalism, and in fact, not true.