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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46483 Posts
Apparently, top Melee players frequently average around 200 APM, although that's usually just for 5-minute games: https://smashboards.com/threads/apm-of-smashers-july-update-the-fastest-peach.234508/ Does anyone have any idea about average top-level APM in other well-known competitive games across varying game genres, like LoL, DotA, Halo, CoD, MvC, or SF? | ||
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Simberto
Germany12015 Posts
You constantly move your mouse and your character, but you cannot really divide this into reasonable units of "actions" due to how continuous movement and mousemovement are. There is none of that "I click this, then i click that, then i press that button" that goes on in SC. Instead you have "I keep on pressing W and D for 8 seconds while slowly moving my mouse around" Neither can you look at in-game actions like shooting or jumping, because how many of those you do is really not relevant at all. I have a difficulty seeing a reasonable way of measuring APM here, and even if you could, it would be an utterly irrelevant statistic because there are completely different relevant concepts at play, like reaction time or acccuracy. The reason people talk about APM in SC is because it correlates pretty well with winning games. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46483 Posts
On August 15 2019 20:53 Simberto wrote: Hm, how would you even measure APM in a shooter? You constantly move your mouse and your character, but you cannot really divide this into reasonable units of "actions" due to how continuous movement and mousemovement are. There is none of that "I click this, then i click that, then i press that button" that goes on in SC. Instead you have "I keep on pressing W and D for 8 seconds while slowly moving my mouse around" Neither can you look at in-game actions like shooting or jumping, because how many of those you do is really not relevant at all. I have a difficulty seeing a reasonable way of measuring APM here, and even if you could, it would be an utterly irrelevant statistic because there are completely different relevant concepts at play, like reaction time or acccuracy. The reason people talk about APM in SC is because it correlates pretty well with winning games. That's a good point; it may not make any sense in shooter games! It might make reasonable sense in MOBAs and fighting games though. | ||
Fecalfeast
Canada11355 Posts
On August 15 2019 21:13 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: That's a good point; it may not make any sense in shooter games! It might make reasonable sense in MOBAs and fighting games though. Heroes of Newerth had an APM stat in the post-game stats. All the APM stat told you is either which heroes require more clicking or who spams their commands more. I used to play in a number of tournaments for fighting games. I think for this genre, like most others, it's irrelevant. not only do different games require vastly different amounts of input, characters within each game often vary in their complexity and input requirements. A basic 'bread and butter' combo in Dragonball Fighter Z can be 23 (or more) inputs whereas in Street Fighter 5 to get a combo with that many inputs would probably be considered impossible without a bug or exploit. | ||
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REDBLUEGREEN
Germany1904 Posts
It doesn't feel like any effort at all though, because you basically never have to move your hand, just the fingers. The same apm in BW feels like 10x the work. You can see inputs (except weapon changes) in this vid | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46483 Posts
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Yurie
12174 Posts
On August 15 2019 21:13 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: That's a good point; it may not make any sense in shooter games! It might make reasonable sense in MOBAs and fighting games though. A Moba with unlocked camera usually requires around 100 APM to be good at it. Easier heroes you can probably manage around 50's in APM and perform more or less equal. Hardest heroes in Dota 200 APM requirements is common for optimal play. Average drops a lot though since you spend so much time dead in games. One of the most common APM sinks high level players do that low level players don't really do is check HP/MP and items of enemies. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Simberto
Germany12015 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Archeon
3273 Posts
On August 16 2019 23:51 Yurie wrote: A Moba with unlocked camera usually requires around 100 APM to be good at it. Easier heroes you can probably manage around 50's in APM and perform more or less equal. Hardest heroes in Dota 200 APM requirements is common for optimal play. Average drops a lot though since you spend so much time dead in games. One of the most common APM sinks high level players do that low level players don't really do is check HP/MP and items of enemies. My impression is similar to how it was for the longest part of sc2 that top players generally tend to have higher APM than strictly "necessary". While I'd argue that T and P were perfectly playable at 150-200 APM we commonly saw pros breach 300 in GSL after the first 2-3 years with most of the additional APM being wasted/on very miniscule improvements. Similarly in dota 2 most pros I've watched feel closer to 200 APM, despite roughly half of that being very small increments. Feels to me more that speed as in reaction speed is a great skill to have in those games and being in the click cycle keeps you focused. | ||
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fluidrone
France1478 Posts
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Emnjay808
United States10666 Posts
Is it normal for secondary succession by fire over there? | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18449 Posts
On August 22 2019 17:33 Emnjay808 wrote: In light of recent events of the fire in the Amazon rainforest: Is it normal for secondary succession by fire over there? Not in the rainforest. It is a very wet forest, so fires don't naturally burn for very long. The cerrado (one of South America's types of savannah woodlands) is adapted for "frequent" forest fires, but the rainforest is definitely not. | ||
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FiWiFaKi
Canada9859 Posts
-Has 5 numbers, 1 through 5. -Each number can be pressed at most once. -Can press as many numbers as wanted simultaneously. For example pressing 2 and 4 at same time is a different combination than pressing 2 then 4, or pressing 4 then 2 Thank you. | ||
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Simberto
Germany12015 Posts
Methodologically, i would start with a simple lock, and figure out how stuff evolves from there. One with two numbers for example. Possible combinations here would be 12 21 (12) and possible 1 2 Then you go for three, and take a look at how that influences the situation, and if you can find something systematic that helps you solve this. But it should actually be possible to simply solve this by writing all possibilities down. Or just calculating the basic combinations as 5*4*3*2*1 possibilities (assuming full length needed), and then figuring out the weird multipress ones, which should be less than that. | ||
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FiWiFaKi
Canada9859 Posts
Without doing double numbers, I think it'd be n c k for n=5 and k= 1,2,3,4,5 then add up those 5. I don't know how to get the rest of them. | ||
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Simberto
Germany12015 Posts
On August 26 2019 23:20 FiWiFaKi wrote: Combinations can be between 1 and 5 numbers (press as many as you want and then press enter) Without doing double numbers, I think it'd be n c k for n=5 and k= 1,2,3,4,5 then add up those 5. I don't know how to get the rest of them. No. n c k gives you picks of k out of n numbers. But it doesn't do order. (so it doesn't differentiate between 132 and 123) 5c5 is 1, because you just grab all of them, but you need all the possible combinations with ordering. What you need is n!/(n-k)! which is close to the formula for n c k, but not the same. Where k is the amount of numbers grabbed. (example: n=5, k=3 ---> 5*4*3*2*1/2*1 = 5*4*3, which is exactly what you get when you realize that you have 5 numbers to choose from for first position, 4 for second, and 3 for third) Then, you need to take a look at the weird combinations. Lets start with something simple. Exactly two numbers pressed at once. Let's say with (12). Now, you simply do the same thing as above, but simply treat (12) as a single number, so you have a set of only 4 numbers (12);3;4;5 , out of which you take up to 4, with ordering. This is clearly the same for all sets of two numbers, and none of them overlap. So multiply the result of this by the amount of possible two number combinations. Then do the same with 3 numbers pressed at the same time, and so on. | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
On August 26 2019 23:11 FiWiFaKi wrote: How many possible combinations are in a lock that: -Has 5 numbers, 1 through 5. -Each number can be pressed at most once. -Can press as many numbers as wanted simultaneously. For example pressing 2 and 4 at same time is a different combination than pressing 2 then 4, or pressing 4 then 2 Thank you. 182 EZ. You all suck. Did this in my head in under 2 min. Pls thank me for doing your homework for you. | ||
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Simberto
Germany12015 Posts
5*4*3*2*1 is 120 5*4*3*2 is also 120 That means that the number of 5 and 4 number combinations without the weird numbers thing is already 240, which means that the total is not 182. | ||
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