EPTAsk and answer stupid questions here! - Page 738
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
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Harris1st
Germany7420 Posts
On August 29 2019 03:14 _fool wrote: I occasionally eat my dinner with (reusable) chopsticks. But they're a pain to put in the dishwasher! I can't put them in the cutlery basket with the forks and knives, because they fall through. I can't put them in the top because they are pushed around by the water jets, ending up on the bottom and/or blocking the rotating thingy. How do you clean your chopsticks. Dishwasher? Just rinse them in the sink? Just leave them for the next day? Do Asian dishwashers have a dedicated chopsticks area? Most wood stuff doesn't belong in the dishwasher anyway. So there is that. To the battlecruiser: I think there are 2 theories at work here. One is where this is actually accomplished through acceleration / deceleration and one where this is some sort of teleportation For the first, you would need some kind of tech which declares the whole battlecruiser as a one particle kinda thing. Otherwise the already mentioned problems occur and nothing survives For the second, basically the whole battlecruiser and everything in it is deconstructed to molecules or whatever and rebuilt at the new location and the only thing that is transported is the information where which molecule belongs. For information we have some pretty awesome speeds achieved already  | ||
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Uldridge
Belgium5226 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22630 Posts
On August 29 2019 19:24 Uldridge wrote: depends on how you see 'you'.But if you're deconstructed and rebuilt, is it still the same you? If you considering your body to be you then you have bigger things to worry about because your cells are being constantly replaced already. If you consider your personality and memory to be you then so long as they are rebuilt identically then why wouldn't you still be you?. | ||
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Zambrah
United States7393 Posts
On August 29 2019 03:14 _fool wrote: I occasionally eat my dinner with (reusable) chopsticks. But they're a pain to put in the dishwasher! I can't put them in the cutlery basket with the forks and knives, because they fall through. I can't put them in the top because they are pushed around by the water jets, ending up on the bottom and/or blocking the rotating thingy. How do you clean your chopsticks. Dishwasher? Just rinse them in the sink? Just leave them for the next day? Do Asian dishwashers have a dedicated chopsticks area? I usually just stuck my chopsticks in the holes in such a way that they wouldn't fall out or anything, worked well for my dishwasher | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
On August 29 2019 19:33 Gorsameth wrote: depends on how you see 'you'. If you considering your body to be you then you have bigger things to worry about because your cells are being constantly replaced already. If you consider your personality and memory to be you then so long as they are rebuilt identically then why wouldn't you still be you?. From the point of the original mind and body, "you" be just as dead. It only seems to be a continuation to the new reconstructed "you" with their constructed memories and to external observers. That's why sci-fi shows with deconstructing teleporters introduce strange religious concepts into their sci-fi shows to get around this, which at first glance seems out of place but is needed so everytime someone walks into a transporter/stargate they are not just killing themselves every single time. Otherwise it's kind of dystopian to shows that are about positive human spirit. For the benefit of their planetary nation state, those characters have unwittingly killed themselves over and over again, treating it as if it was normal. | ||
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Sbrubbles
Brazil5776 Posts
On September 03 2019 21:27 Dangermousecatdog wrote: From the point of the original mind and body, "you" be just as dead. It only seems to be a continuation to the new reconstructed "you" with their constructed memories and to external observers. That's why sci-fi shows with deconstructing teleporters introduce strange religious concepts into their sci-fi shows to get around this, which at first glance seems out of place but is needed so everytime someone walks into a transporter/stargate they are not just killing themselves every single time. Otherwise it's kind of dystopian to shows that are about positive human spirit. For the benefit of their planetary nation state, those characters have unwittingly killed themselves over and over again, treating it as if it was normal. If, like Gorsameth points out, "you" aren't even the same "you" that existed a month ago (because cells are replaced naturally), why should you care? People in our world don't need strange sci-fi religions to rationalize this specific point. | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
There is no longer that continuance of consciousness. If somehow those memories are reconstructed, the original body and mind are just as dead. From the perspective of the built memories, the body and mind has teleported, but that is just a false memory to a new mind, created at the moment of reconstruction. Of course there are numerous philosphical questions to do with memory and mind related to this, but for our purposes they are irrelevant. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22630 Posts
On September 03 2019 23:37 Dangermousecatdog wrote: The question is if I care about dying if I know that I'll also continue living as a new me that is a perfect copy of the old me.Your neurons that contain your memories don't get replaced naturally. They are the same cell from embryo till death or brain damage. If your neurons are destroyed, "you" simply cease to exist. This isn't the 16th century anymore. We know that the mind is contained within the brain, even if we have no idea how it truly works. There is no longer that continuance of consciousness. If somehow those memories are reconstructed, the original body and mind are just as dead. From the perspective of the built memories, the body and mind has teleported, but that is just a false memory to a new mind, created at the moment of reconstruction. Of course there are numerous philosphical questions to do with memory and mind related to this, but for our purposes they are irrelevant. Personally I wouldn't have a problem with 'dying' during teleportation, from my own perspective it doesn't even happen. | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
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Uldridge
Belgium5226 Posts
Edit: okay I'm actually stupid. I guess I just thought too hard about it, because I was thinking "fixed systems" like molecules still have their (sub)atomic particles moving about, even though the chemical bond has them constrained more or less. Guess I was thinking about everything just being in transition and at the same time disregarding time and availability of external sources of energy for an object of interest completely. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18449 Posts
On September 04 2019 04:32 Dangermousecatdog wrote: But you don't continue living as the new me, that's the point. You are dead. You basically wrote you don't care if you die. But yet here you are, replying to me, so clearly life is still worth living for you. You don't experience the perfect copy, something else that isn't you, experiences the perfect copy. Does it matter if you instantly die and your body is animated by a foreign implant that acts the same way? Would society even care? Well, you are assuming there is a qualitative distinction between the copy and the original. But yeah, the idea that teleportation is actually cloning at a distance has been explore in SciFi and philosophy. Check out anything on the Ship of Theseus paradox, and the teletransportation paradox. Particularly dialogi by Stanislaw Lem is wonderfully written and succinct in reaching the core of the issue. Would you still be you if you were disassembled and rebuilt "exactly" elsewhere? And what if you don't have to destroy the original, who would be you? Luckily, we don't have to worry too much about it. For anywhere in the foreseeable future, teleportation is impossible, and it may even be impossible in theory (uncertainty principle may very well make it an impossibility to make such an "exact" copy). | ||
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Archeon
3273 Posts
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GreenHorizons
United States24369 Posts
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
For some reason it's really rare to find pop sci-fi where teleportation happens like wormhole or like fantasy magic. | ||
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Uldridge
Belgium5226 Posts
But if you're deconstructed and rebuilt, is it still the same you? I was asking the question hoping we'd get something like this. I consider my bait to be successful.Also, in I have this hypothesis which seems plausible enough to work into a sci fi concept. If your copied state would have literally the exact same configuration, down to the subatomic, you'd still be you. This also means in theory that reincarnation can be possible if a future electrochemical state of whatever components is the same as a state you're currently in or have been in. This could explain how some people feel like they've lived in the past or why some people experience different personalities (not necessarily reincarnation, but more like an expansion on it). | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
That stuff you just wrote on reincarnation is just wishful thinking, and such spiritualism has to be added to negate the disturbing way that most scifi teleporters repeatedly kill their passengers, which bizarrely for the scientific culture that phenomenon is glossed over and not studied at all. And then one of the heroes becomes more powerful than spaceships. | ||
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Simberto
Germany12015 Posts
On September 04 2019 19:48 Uldridge wrote: I was asking the question hoping we'd get something like this. I consider my bait to be successful. Also, in I have this hypothesis which seems plausible enough to work into a sci fi concept. If your copied state would have literally the exact same configuration, down to the subatomic, you'd still be you. This also means in theory that reincarnation can be possible if a future electrochemical state of whatever components is the same as a state you're currently in or have been in. This could explain how some people feel like they've lived in the past or why some people experience different personalities (not necessarily reincarnation, but more like an expansion on it). The first half makes some kind of sense, but the last conclusion is just nonsense. Firstly, this stuff doesn't happen randomly. The probability of something being exactly you later in the future by random chance is so absurdly low that it might as well be 0. As in, it is not humanly possible to imagine as many zeroes before the first non-zero number in the probability. As a very simplified calculation, lets say that humans are made only of two different types of atoms, and all of these atoms are exactly equal. According to this, a human body has about 7*10^27 atoms in it. So with our "two types of atoms human" model, and ignoring that these could actually be arranged in different patterns, we already have 2^(7*10^27) different possible combinations for humans. This is a number which is too large for my calculator to calculate. As a very rough estimate of this number, if we say that 2^7=100, and 2^(7*10^27) = (2^7)^(10^27) = 100^(10^27), which is a number with 2*10^27 zeroes at the end of it. two octillion zeroes in shortscale. And this is very clearly far below the actual number of possible combinations. And even if that were to happen, you wouldn't feel as if you had previous lives. You would feel like Otto Miller, who had just stepped out of his Mill after a long work day in 822, and who is really, really confused as to why he is suddenly right here and now. The far better explanation as to why people feel as if they had previous lives is that that sounds interesting, and they think their lives are boring. | ||
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Uldridge
Belgium5226 Posts
By the way, you assume the human body plan is random regarding atom arrangements? Firstly, you should account only for the central nervous system and secondly the body plan amongst humans has been more or less the same for ten thousands of years, probably even millions. This further constricts the possibilies of possible states. Lastly, I strongly believe conscious experiences are an emergent property of a certain electrochemical state in time. Ergo, you're not 'conscious' when blackout drunk, yet you still operate, albeit barely. You can have quite the significant amount of anatomical plans, combined with certain stimuli and physiology, which could yield the exact same state. When they overlap, you could emerge randomly in the past, or in the future. | ||
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