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whatisthisasheep
Profile Joined April 2015
624 Posts
September 12 2015 06:24 GMT
#6781
Is Eve a home wrecker considering she broke up Adam and his first wife?
Please help me get in contact with the Pats organization because I'd love to personally deflate Tom's balls.
Yoav
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1874 Posts
September 12 2015 07:10 GMT
#6782
On September 12 2015 15:24 whatisthisasheep wrote:
Is Eve a home wrecker considering she broke up Adam and his first wife?


In canon, Eve is Adam's first wife. There's some fanfic where she's the second. Is Kirk a homewrecker for fucking Uhura?
OtherWorld
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
France17333 Posts
September 12 2015 08:22 GMT
#6783
On September 12 2015 15:24 whatisthisasheep wrote:
Is Eve a home wrecker considering she broke up Adam and his first wife?

My religious education is near zero but how can Eve not be Adam's first wife if both of them were the first two human beings created by God? Did Adam used to fuck a goat or something? d:
Used Sigs - New Sigs - Cheap Sigs - Buy the Best Cheap Sig near You at www.cheapsigforsale.com
Mylax
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Germany21 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-09-12 12:41:45
September 12 2015 12:36 GMT
#6784
On September 12 2015 06:39 zatic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 12 2015 02:51 Simberto wrote:
On September 12 2015 02:16 zatic wrote:
On September 12 2015 00:36 Simberto wrote:
On September 11 2015 23:29 zatic wrote:
On September 11 2015 23:13 Simberto wrote:
On September 11 2015 22:06 oGoZenob wrote:
On September 11 2015 21:19 AbouSV wrote:
Are cloning and related life/memory expanding researches makes as "not ethics" because if we were to live for too long, most people would have so much less meaning to get up in the morning?
Like if you don't need to feed (so you don't need to get money, so you don't need to work, and so on)

that would require those research to double at least life expectancy, and I doubt that's even possible


Life expectancy is really weird. As far as i know, there does not seem to be a fundamental reason for people to die of old age (Or to age at all). We only do because it turned out to be an evolutionary advantage to be able to evolve.

What? What advantage do I have over my (not aging) peers if I age and die of age? How could my genes possibly outperform those of peers who don't age?

It's the other way around: If there was a genetic way for humans not to age evolution would have radically selected for that.


Not aging means less adaption through evolution over long time frames. If you don't age, you either procreate a lot less (meaning longer generations and thus less adaption through evolution), or you have to fight your children over scarce ressources. Which either means you kill your children a lot (At which point, why are you even procreating?), or your children kill you, at which point it is irrelevant if you age or not.

As soon as a species doesn't age, it stops evolving or evolves a lot slower.

You personally don't have an advantage over people who don't age. Your subspecies(aging people) have an advantage over non-aging people because they continue to evolve and adapt, while those who don't age are standing still.

Stopping the continued evolution of your species is harshly selected against, and that is exactly what not aging does.

I don't think you understand how evolution works. Evolution doesn't select what is best for the species, but selects what is best for the individual.

Say I happen to have a mutation that stops me from aging once I am fully mature. I have now virtually unlimited offspring. My genes, and thus my anti-aging mutation would spread over any other genes out there - and a a ridiculous rate, since every parent generation will continue to pump out more offspring, until eternity.

This is just looking at the pure mechanics of reproduction. Of course my anti-aging genes would also make me incredibly more attractive for mating, thus accelerating the process even more. Within a few generations aging genes would be eliminated.

You are also wrong on how a species stops evolving if it doesn't age. That doesn't make any sense. As long as the anti-age species keeps reproducing there is just as much potential for evolution as there is with an aging species.

Sure, the species might run into all kinds of environmental problems, but that has nothing to do with the evolution of genes. Again, as long as the individual doesn't get an edge in terms of reproducing, any "corrective" mutation that might benefit the species would be eliminated.


Evolution works twofold, on an individual frame as you have described, and on a species frame. For this first part, lets assume that not aging also means that your species stops changing as you don't reproduce as much. Now, your non-aging genes somehow take over your whole species, and it stops changing (or changes slower than other species). Fast forward a few million years, and suddenly your species gets outcompeted by another species that kept on evolving (maybe another offspring of your original species that was somehow isolated from your anti aging gene), or the enviroment changes in a way that makes your whole timestuck species obsolete. And suddenly your aging gene is just completely gone.

That evolution does not indeed only care about the competitive advantage of the individual, but also works on all sorts of different scales like family, or even species, can easily be seen in nature at a lot of different points. For example, we have empathy and feel bad for others if they are in a bad spot. We might even help them. This is an evolved behavior, that can be seen not only in humans, but in a lot of other animals too. We also feel like this if we are in a situation where noone would ever know. But this is also obviously disadvantageous to the individual that is prosocial and helps another. You could just kill them and take their stuff (looking at this obviously not from the point of view of a modern human, but of an individual a few million years back that doesn't have to work within todays social frameworks). This action would give you more resources, thus increasing your chances to mate some more and have more offspring. And still we evolved empathy, because empathy helped the species outcompete other species.

And of course environmental concerns have everything to do with your genes. Note that i am not talking about modern society, modern human society has not been around for long enough for a period of time long enough for evolution to have any meaningful effect. So an environmental problem directly effects your offspring. If you don't age, you are going to keep the resources that you have aquired (for example the area you live in) to yourself. Now, if you have children at the same rate as a constantly dying and refreshing population, you very quickly run out of room. Which means that your children have nowhere to go. Either they kill you (because you don't die naturally, someone has to kill you to take over your hunting grounds), at which point your not dying just makes everything more complicated and hard for your offspring, or you kill them/drive them off to shitty hunting grounds. Until there no longer are any hunting grounds, at which point you have to kill them. Thus, you would have to either reproduce slower than if you had simply aged and died, up to a rate where you effectively reproduce at roughly the speed that the old immortals die off due to being eaten by wolves, which is slower and thus also slows down your evolution due to having less generations in the same time to work with. Or you just kill of your offspring, don't get eaten by wolves, and completely stagnate. Or your children kill you when they come of age and take your stuff, but that also means that your non-aging actually isn't a competetive advantage at all, it is a disadvantage, because it makes it harder for your children to take your stuff.

And as for some empirical evidence: Almost every species we know of ages and dies. You can now either assume that this is somehow a magical constant that just has to be, but that seems weird and also does not fit with facts like the existence of a very few species likeTurritopsis dohrnii, which do not appear to age at all, or can even age backwards if they like. So there must be some sort of selection advantage to aging and dying.

Maybe you shouldn't be as quick to dismiss anothers opinion as "They don't understand the subject" when your own opinion is based on a very superficial knowledge of the subject matter at hand.

This feels like a massive case of XKCD 386, so i'll keep it short. Following your logic, and following that you don't seem to deny that longevity would give (at least) an immediate, individual edge, there must be plenty of evidence of these ultimately extinct species that evolved anti-aging, right? Care to point out any?

Of course you can't. Like you said yourself, there is no evidence of any species outside of a single jellyfish freak to ever develop longevity. Which leads me to the opposite conclusion you arrive at: Given that longevity would be a crazy evolutionary edge, and seeing that we don't observe it anywhere in living or fossile organisms, it can't be natural selection that is keeping us from living forever.


As far as I know, it is pretty much scientific consensus that there is no such thing as evolution in regards to the best of the species. In fact there is no evolution in regards to the best for the indivual either. It's all about evolution of genes. Individuals are only "meat shields" for these genes.

You use the example of altruistic behavior as evidence for evolution of behavior thats the best for the species and not the individual, but there is a problem with that. If there is an advantage for a single individual to behave egoistic then this individual will have a higher chance of replicating these "egoistic behavior" genes and the group will become purely egoistic over time.

Now you could argue that this group would have a disadvantage compared to groups that behave altruistic and therefore the altruistic group will have a higher chance of survival and over time egoistic groups will go extinct.

The problem with that argument is that it is a highly unstable system. Unstable systems don't work in regards to evolution.

A much more convincing story looks at genes. In a social group (like humans in prehistoric times) there is a high chance that individuals in that group are related. For an "altrustic behavior" gene to evolve the cost of being altruistic have to be lower then the benefit for the chances of replication of that gene. If you are a 20 year old male sacrificing some of your food will have relatively little negativ effects on the chances of replication of your genes.

The one that receives that food might be sick and receiving very little food might be the difference between death and life and therefore hugely increase the chances of replication of the gene "sacrifice food" to the next generation.

Even if there is no relation between individuals of the group an argument in context of game theory can be made for the evolving of altrustic genes. Conditions are that you can recognize individuals and you will interact over a period of time.

My information come from the book "the selfish gene" by richard dawkins.


Now to the issue of aging. IIRC Richard Dawkins explained aging like this: Evolutionary there is a cost involved in "maintaining" the body so that ressources that could be spent producing offspring are instead invested in keeping the body from developing e.g. cancer or any other illness. Thats why every organism "makes" the decision of keeping the body from deterioratiing for as long as this maximized the chances of replication of the genes. For a beetle that might be only a few months (because at that point the accumulated risk of predators becomes to high), whereas humans reach that point only when they are maybe 60.

So at first you look at all the external risks that an organism faces, like predators, starvation and so on. These risks will accumulate over time. The benefit of increasing the total life span by one more year will decrease over time (at different rates for different organisms like insects and humans). The cost of maintaing the body will increase over time, because the body will deteriorate at an ever increasing pace. There will be one optimal point where the cost of one more unit lifespan will be equal to the benefit.

That is your equilibrium point. This point is different for every individual.
whatisthisasheep
Profile Joined April 2015
624 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-09-12 15:24:46
September 12 2015 15:07 GMT
#6785
On September 12 2015 17:22 OtherWorld wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 12 2015 15:24 whatisthisasheep wrote:
Is Eve a home wrecker considering she broke up Adam and his first wife?

My religious education is near zero but how can Eve not be Adam's first wife if both of them were the first two human beings created by God? Did Adam used to fuck a goat or something? d:

There are two creation stories. Adams first wife is mentioned in the Book of Splended, and Alaphabet of Ben Sira, Isiah,and Genesis. God creates a man in women from the same dust of the earth. Eve was created from Adam's rib later on.

"so god created man in his own image, male and female to be created them" Genesis 1:27
Thats Adams first wife

"god caused man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the mans ribs. Then the lord god made a woman" Genesis 2:21-22
Thats Eve


Please help me get in contact with the Pats organization because I'd love to personally deflate Tom's balls.
Yoav
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1874 Posts
September 12 2015 15:59 GMT
#6786
On September 13 2015 00:07 whatisthisasheep wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 12 2015 17:22 OtherWorld wrote:
On September 12 2015 15:24 whatisthisasheep wrote:
Is Eve a home wrecker considering she broke up Adam and his first wife?

My religious education is near zero but how can Eve not be Adam's first wife if both of them were the first two human beings created by God? Did Adam used to fuck a goat or something? d:

There are two creation stories. Adams first wife is mentioned in the Book of Splended, and Alaphabet of Ben Sira, Isiah,and Genesis. God creates a man in women from the same dust of the earth. Eve was created from Adam's rib later on.

"so god created man in his own image, male and female to be created them" Genesis 1:27
Thats Adams first wife

"god caused man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the mans ribs. Then the lord god made a woman" Genesis 2:21-22
Thats Eve



lol no. Yes, there are two creation stories. And yes, they contradict each other. (Gen 1: Water-chaos, creation by speech, ascending order of creation, all things "good"; Gen 2: Desert-origin, creation by hand (out of mud), humans made second after rivers and before plants/animals, everything until Eve "insufficient.") Their juxtoposition does not mandate silly smashing them together; they are attempts to describe in human terms the moral origin of the universe... there are two because this is hard to get from one point of view.

But, more particularly here, Lilith isn't in the Bible. She's an invention from the era of the Talmud, in the first millennium CE, at least a millennium after the final editing/compilation of the OT and well farther after the composition of the creation story. It was one of many intriguing/amusing rabbinic attempts to reconcile the two creation stories. One I like better (but still think farfetched) suggested that "Adam" was actually dual-gendered/gender-fluid "male and female," where Eve was actually female.
TMG26
Profile Joined July 2012
Portugal2017 Posts
September 12 2015 16:08 GMT
#6787
On September 12 2015 17:22 OtherWorld wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 12 2015 15:24 whatisthisasheep wrote:
Is Eve a home wrecker considering she broke up Adam and his first wife?

My religious education is near zero but how can Eve not be Adam's first wife if both of them were the first two human beings created by God? Did Adam used to fuck a goat or something? d:


Lilith.
Supporter of the situational Blink Dagger on Storm.
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States46580 Posts
September 12 2015 17:10 GMT
#6788
On September 12 2015 15:24 whatisthisasheep wrote:
Is Eve a home wrecker considering she broke up Adam and his first wife?


I don't get it.

I'd be more concerned with the fact that Eve had to have sex with her sons to get the mythical population going.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States46580 Posts
September 12 2015 17:10 GMT
#6789
On September 13 2015 01:08 TMG26 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 12 2015 17:22 OtherWorld wrote:
On September 12 2015 15:24 whatisthisasheep wrote:
Is Eve a home wrecker considering she broke up Adam and his first wife?

My religious education is near zero but how can Eve not be Adam's first wife if both of them were the first two human beings created by God? Did Adam used to fuck a goat or something? d:


Lilith.


Andariel?
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
Yoav
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1874 Posts
September 12 2015 22:08 GMT
#6790
On September 13 2015 02:10 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 12 2015 15:24 whatisthisasheep wrote:
Is Eve a home wrecker considering she broke up Adam and his first wife?


I don't get it.

I'd be more concerned with the fact that Eve had to have sex with her sons to get the mythical population going.


Her daughters fucked her sons. Or maybe the near human hominids nearby.
whatisthisasheep
Profile Joined April 2015
624 Posts
September 12 2015 22:49 GMT
#6791
If listening to classical music makes you smart, does listening to Katy perry and lady gaga make you stupid?
Please help me get in contact with the Pats organization because I'd love to personally deflate Tom's balls.
Sent.
Profile Joined June 2012
Poland9331 Posts
September 12 2015 23:18 GMT
#6792
On September 13 2015 07:49 whatisthisasheep wrote:
If listening to classical music makes you smart, does listening to Katy perry and lady gaga make you stupid?


both statements are equally smart
You're now breathing manually
Thieving Magpie
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
United States6752 Posts
September 13 2015 06:02 GMT
#6793
On September 13 2015 08:18 Sent. wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 13 2015 07:49 whatisthisasheep wrote:
If listening to classical music makes you smart, does listening to Katy perry and lady gaga make you stupid?


both statements are equally smart


They are also equally stupid.
Hark, what baseball through yonder window breaks?
OtherWorld
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
France17333 Posts
September 13 2015 06:42 GMT
#6794
On September 13 2015 15:02 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 13 2015 08:18 Sent. wrote:
On September 13 2015 07:49 whatisthisasheep wrote:
If listening to classical music makes you smart, does listening to Katy perry and lady gaga make you stupid?


both statements are equally smart


They are also equally stupid.

I think the important thing here is to determine if those statements are correct or false, not smart or stupid d:
Used Sigs - New Sigs - Cheap Sigs - Buy the Best Cheap Sig near You at www.cheapsigforsale.com
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States46580 Posts
September 13 2015 12:19 GMT
#6795
On September 13 2015 15:42 OtherWorld wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 13 2015 15:02 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On September 13 2015 08:18 Sent. wrote:
On September 13 2015 07:49 whatisthisasheep wrote:
If listening to classical music makes you smart, does listening to Katy perry and lady gaga make you stupid?


both statements are equally smart


They are also equally stupid.

I think the important thing here is to determine if those statements are correct or false, not smart or stupid d:


It's a conditional, so I'm not sure if we're supposed to be evaluating the truth value of the entire if-then statement, or independently talking about classical and then pop music. There's probably no causal relationship with either music-type anyway.

So let's start with the antecedent... what evidence is there that "classical music makes you smart"?

And second, if there was such evidence, why would that mean that the inverse (not contrapositive!) that therefore non-classical music makes you non-smart is true?
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
Djzapz
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Canada10681 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-09-13 13:21:41
September 13 2015 13:16 GMT
#6796
Is there any good way to mount a "reloading press", basically a large piece of metal equipment, onto a workbench that's made out of metal?

Let me explain: this press needs to be bolted down onto a solid workbench, as it's fairly heavy and the lever requires a lot of downward force to be applied, and all my furniture is flimsy except this one work bench with a metal top that I can't bolt anything into. How do people usually deal with this? I was thinking of bolting it on a 2x4 and using 2 vises to grip the 2x4 onto the workbench from below.
"My incompetence with power tools had been increasing exponentially over the course of 20 years spent inhaling experimental oven cleaners"
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18476 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-09-13 13:21:18
September 13 2015 13:20 GMT
#6797
On September 13 2015 21:19 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 13 2015 15:42 OtherWorld wrote:
On September 13 2015 15:02 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On September 13 2015 08:18 Sent. wrote:
On September 13 2015 07:49 whatisthisasheep wrote:
If listening to classical music makes you smart, does listening to Katy perry and lady gaga make you stupid?


both statements are equally smart


They are also equally stupid.

I think the important thing here is to determine if those statements are correct or false, not smart or stupid d:


It's a conditional, so I'm not sure if we're supposed to be evaluating the truth value of the entire if-then statement, or independently talking about classical and then pop music. There's probably no causal relationship with either music-type anyway.

So let's start with the antecedent... what evidence is there that "classical music makes you smart"?

And second, if there was such evidence, why would that mean that the inverse (not contrapositive!) that therefore non-classical music makes you non-smart is true?

looks to me like you have listened to classical music.
The_Templar
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
your Country52798 Posts
September 13 2015 14:35 GMT
#6798
On September 13 2015 22:20 Acrofales wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 13 2015 21:19 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On September 13 2015 15:42 OtherWorld wrote:
On September 13 2015 15:02 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On September 13 2015 08:18 Sent. wrote:
On September 13 2015 07:49 whatisthisasheep wrote:
If listening to classical music makes you smart, does listening to Katy perry and lady gaga make you stupid?


both statements are equally smart


They are also equally stupid.

I think the important thing here is to determine if those statements are correct or false, not smart or stupid d:


It's a conditional, so I'm not sure if we're supposed to be evaluating the truth value of the entire if-then statement, or independently talking about classical and then pop music. There's probably no causal relationship with either music-type anyway.

So let's start with the antecedent... what evidence is there that "classical music makes you smart"?

And second, if there was such evidence, why would that mean that the inverse (not contrapositive!) that therefore non-classical music makes you non-smart is true?

looks to me like you have listened to classical music.

No, he's just a math person (and also super accurate here).
ModeratorI am still alive, somehow
TL+ Member
whatisthisasheep
Profile Joined April 2015
624 Posts
September 13 2015 14:39 GMT
#6799
On September 13 2015 22:20 Acrofales wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 13 2015 21:19 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On September 13 2015 15:42 OtherWorld wrote:
On September 13 2015 15:02 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On September 13 2015 08:18 Sent. wrote:
On September 13 2015 07:49 whatisthisasheep wrote:
If listening to classical music makes you smart, does listening to Katy perry and lady gaga make you stupid?


both statements are equally smart


They are also equally stupid.

I think the important thing here is to determine if those statements are correct or false, not smart or stupid d:


It's a conditional, so I'm not sure if we're supposed to be evaluating the truth value of the entire if-then statement, or independently talking about classical and then pop music. There's probably no causal relationship with either music-type anyway.

So let's start with the antecedent... what evidence is there that "classical music makes you smart"?

And second, if there was such evidence, why would that mean that the inverse (not contrapositive!) that therefore non-classical music makes you non-smart is true?

looks to me like you have listened to classical music.

There has been several studies conducted of mothers playing Bach and Beathoven to their babies and it having a positive correlation with the babies intelligence. So couldn't the opposite be true if you expose the baby to dub step and mariachi music?
Please help me get in contact with the Pats organization because I'd love to personally deflate Tom's balls.
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States46580 Posts
September 13 2015 15:04 GMT
#6800
On September 13 2015 23:35 The_Templar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 13 2015 22:20 Acrofales wrote:
On September 13 2015 21:19 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On September 13 2015 15:42 OtherWorld wrote:
On September 13 2015 15:02 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On September 13 2015 08:18 Sent. wrote:
On September 13 2015 07:49 whatisthisasheep wrote:
If listening to classical music makes you smart, does listening to Katy perry and lady gaga make you stupid?


both statements are equally smart


They are also equally stupid.

I think the important thing here is to determine if those statements are correct or false, not smart or stupid d:


It's a conditional, so I'm not sure if we're supposed to be evaluating the truth value of the entire if-then statement, or independently talking about classical and then pop music. There's probably no causal relationship with either music-type anyway.

So let's start with the antecedent... what evidence is there that "classical music makes you smart"?

And second, if there was such evidence, why would that mean that the inverse (not contrapositive!) that therefore non-classical music makes you non-smart is true?

looks to me like you have listened to classical music.

No, he's just a math person (and also super accurate here).


Heh. Interestingly enough, classical music tends to put me to sleep and I don't prefer to listen to that genre, because I like singing along to songs. Perhaps having a song (with lyrics) stuck in my head or having a pop song playing in the background distracts me more than would be the case with a classical song (which might relax someone instead of distract?), but all that is pure speculation on my part. I'd be interested in reading some research though!
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
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