Ask and answer stupid questions here! - Page 271

Cascade

Australia5405 Posts

June 03 2015 01:50 GMT

#5401

I feel that "hit like a girl", or "weak like a girl" are roughly equivalent to

"Poor like an immigrant"
or
"Weak like a dwarf"

it is true that immigrant on average are poorer that non-immigrant, and dwarfs will be weaker on average as well. Still, I think rubbing it in by using phrases like that perpetuates a negative connotation to these often discriminated groups, and thus contributes to the discrimination. So it's not a matter of factual correctness, but a matter of not rubbing in negative connotation of discriminated groups.

DarkPlasmaBall

United States46537 Posts

June 03 2015 03:26 GMT

#5402

On June 02 2015 22:46 Thieving Magpie wrote:

Show nested quote +

On June 02 2015 16:01 Simberto wrote:

On June 02 2015 12:53 Thieving Magpie wrote:

On June 02 2015 09:52 Rollin wrote:

On June 02 2015 06:36 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Let me put an example:

In a patriarchy, the phrase "you hit like a girl" is an insult.
In a matriarchy, the phrase "you hit like a girl" would be a complement

The goal should be that the phrase "you hit like a girl" is confusing because it doesn't actual mean anything. Hitting like a girl and hitting like a boy shouldn't really register as anything different from each other.

Your example makes no sense as regardless of society's perspectives/values, women are statistically weaker than men. That's a fact. It's considered insulting to equate something to a lesser version, so in the context of hitting (strength) where women have lesser strength, it will always be demeaning when said to a man. Saying it to a female is strange though.

Usage of the term may decrease and become distasteful though.

And the problem you have is the values you place on what is a complement or not.

In today's patriarchal society, good throwing is determined by strength. That is not necessarily true in a matriarchal society which might value something else as important in the act of throwing.

That's what you don't seem to get. Something being a compliment or an insult depends purely on what is valued in the described topic. "You hit like a girl" as you say, is an emphasis on female weakness. But it's possible that "you hit like a girl" in a matriarchal society is a celebration of the person's grace or form. You being unable to see that shows how limited to patriarchal constructs your point of view is. Because, remember, it's about what is valued (not measured) that determines whether something is patriarchal or matriarchal--and that is because a matriarchal society will value and praise different things than a patriarchal one.

Sorry, but no.

In a lot of cases, that point can be made, and is a valid argument. In the two cases at hand, no, it can not.

Hitting someone has a very specific purpose. Hurting them. Thus, a "good" hit is one that hurt more. That means either more force or more accuracy. No matter how graceful you hit someone, if that punch is worse at accomplishing the underlying goal, it is objectively a worse punch.

The same goes for throwing a ball. Here, there are two things that are relevant: Distance and accuracy. Throwing a ball has a very specific goal. Thus, a throw is better if it goes further/faster and/or if it is more accurate. These are very objective criteria for a throw, and judging the throwing of a ball by other criteria does not really make a lot of sense unless you want to completely change the meaning of throwing.Ultimately, the whole goal of throwing something is to get it from A to B, possibly past C. And you can very objectively judge how good a throw is at accomplishing that goal.

And in both those cases, men do have a biological advantage, simply because they are on average ~12cm larger and 10kg heavier.

Those are under your patriarchal guidelines with the assumption that that is the only valid value. An since you live in a patriarchal society with heavily misogynistic views, you cannot fathom even the remote possibility of defining different values to the same observed action.

Regardless of whether you live in a patriarchal or matriarchal society, men (on average) hit harder than women. That's a fact, not a value. So while we say it to men as a putdown in our patriarchal society, we probably wouldn't say it in a matriarchal society frequently at all (because while the fact remains the same, we would value women more and not go out of our way to point out inferiorities). However, we wouldn't say that "you hit like a girl" is a compliment; instead, the putdowns would just be aimed towards things men do worse (because it's sex reversal). So in a matriarchal society, we would be more likely to hear something like "You're as dirty/ lazy/ hairy as a man" (or some other negative stereotype for men) as an assigned putdown to a woman, but that doesn't mean it's currently a compliment in our society.

AssyrianKing

Australia2126 Posts

June 03 2015 04:13 GMT

#5403

Why isn't there a Liquepidia for LOL ?

Karis Vas Ryaar

United States4396 Posts

June 03 2015 04:56 GMT

#5404

On June 03 2015 13:13 AssyrianKing wrote:
Why isn't there a Liquepidia for LOL ?

I'd guess because other ones do it perfectly well and there's no need for TL to have their own independent one.

there's this one for instance http://lol.esportspedia.com/wiki/League_of_Legends_Wiki

IgnE

United States7684 Posts

June 03 2015 05:31 GMT

#5405

I think he means "laughing out loud."

helpman176

128 Posts

June 03 2015 05:59 GMT

#5406

I agree, there should be a YokoKanopedia similar to: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com

Karis Vas Ryaar

United States4396 Posts

June 03 2015 06:18 GMT

#5407

On June 03 2015 14:31 IgnE wrote:
I think he means "laughing out loud."

oh. well if he means the other lol i answered it

xM(Z

Romania5299 Posts

June 03 2015 08:07 GMT

#5408

On June 03 2015 03:41 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:

Show nested quote +

false equivalency.the phrase "hits like a truck" is not demeaning to trucks and actually has a positive connotation since it implies a truck hits hard.

just like the phrase "hits like a girl" is not demeaning to all girls. that wasn't the point though. i wasn't equivalenting anything. the idea there was about offense/getting offended because that is what is troubling to Thieving Magpie.

my believe is that even if no girl will be offended by the phrase "hits like a girl", Thieving Magpie will still dedicate his life and try to change it based on his own perception of what offense/offensive is/means/entails.
i find his whole endeavor futile. i can purposely create offensive phrases just to give meaning to his life. how about that.

i'd work the people and not the phrasing/syntax. once you cure someone of being offended, he will remain like that for life, not until the next offensive catch phrase.

Cascade

Australia5405 Posts

June 03 2015 08:14 GMT

#5409

On June 03 2015 17:07 xM(Z wrote:

Show nested quote +

I feel all of you guys are completely missing the point... it is not about offending people.

It is about associating discriminated groups with undesirable properties.

xM(Z

Romania5299 Posts

June 03 2015 08:31 GMT

#5410

On June 03 2015 17:14 Cascade wrote:

Show nested quote +

I feel all of you guys are completely missing the point... it is not about offending people.

It is about associating discriminated groups with undesirable properties.

but those undesirable properties could be only in your head.
i don't see anyone making polls to find out the amount of girls discriminated and with that particular undesirable propriety; so all everyone is doing here, is assuming stuff then swj-ing because they know better of course.

all i'm saying is that your theory does not (fully)apply to real life but you don't care about that as long as you get your holy war going.

helpman176

128 Posts

June 03 2015 09:27 GMT

#5411

You guys are missing the point.
If a dude hits like a girl, it is very important to call him out on it!

Cascade

Australia5405 Posts

June 03 2015 09:35 GMT

#5412

On June 03 2015 17:31 xM(Z wrote:

Show nested quote +

I'm trying to make sense of your post, and I am struggling a bit, partially because I don't know what swj-ing is. I don't care for the personal analysis either, thanks you very much. I think (part of) my point is that the undesirable properties are not only in my head, but in everyones, which may be part of the cause of the discrimination. And gender studies is a huuuuge field of research, so don't be so quick to assume things haven't been done. Not that I understand exactly what you claim hasn't been done though. But I am not sure if that addresses your standpoint. Anyway, I don't see this conversation going anywhere good, so I think I'll just drop it, sorry.

Cascade

Australia5405 Posts

June 03 2015 09:36 GMT

#5413

The sexism here is pretty scary.

GreenHorizons

United States24394 Posts

June 03 2015 09:45 GMT

#5414

On June 03 2015 18:36 Cascade wrote:
The sexism here is pretty scary.

This is nothing. It gets way worse.

OtherWorld

France17333 Posts

June 03 2015 09:53 GMT

#5415

On June 03 2015 18:36 Cascade wrote:
The sexism here is pretty scary.

When confronted with reasoning and thought, some people will just narrow their minds and call everyone not agreeing with them "SJW" without even realizing the absurdness of this. Don't bother.

Velr

Switzerland10970 Posts

June 03 2015 10:11 GMT

#5416

Calling people out for using the phrase „hits/throws/catches like a girl“ seems not really reasonable to me… FFS i know Girls/Women that use this sentence when they fail badly at throwing/catching).

Is it 100% PC? Probably not. Is it discriminating or anything like that? No. Is it worth making a fuss about? No and you look stupid for doing it. There are many more important battles to fight.

Shock710

Australia6097 Posts

June 03 2015 10:26 GMT

#5417

On June 03 2015 18:53 OtherWorld wrote:

Show nested quote +

When confronted with reasoning and thought, some people will just narrow their minds and call everyone not agreeing with them "SJW" without even realizing the absurdness of this. Don't bother.

ur nearly at 10k i hope u have a blog planned out, im looking forward to it (p.s can i get a random shoutout)

xM(Z

Romania5299 Posts

June 03 2015 10:49 GMT

#5418

On June 03 2015 18:35 Cascade wrote:

Show nested quote +

On June 03 2015 17:31 xM(Z wrote:

On June 03 2015 17:14 Cascade wrote:

On June 03 2015 17:07 xM(Z wrote:

On June 03 2015 03:41 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:

On June 03 2015 03:32 xM(Z wrote:
stop with the swj-ing dude.
go outside, find a girl, tell her the phrase then ask her is she's offended. is she says "no", slap yourself then move on.

there is no way you can construct a language with a syntax that will be equal(in phrasing) for every stinking human on this planet.

this shit - "Hits like a truck", is very offensive. my <xxx> were hit by a truck and died. how can you be so inconsiderate!?. stop trivializing my pain.

false equivalency.the phrase "hits like a truck" is not demeaning to trucks and actually has a positive connotation since it implies a truck hits hard.

I feel all of you guys are completely missing the point... it is not about offending people.

It is about associating discriminated groups with undesirable properties.

I'm trying to make sense of your post, and I am struggling a bit, partially because I don't know what swj-ing is. I don't care for the personal analysis either, thanks you very much. I think (part of) my point is that the undesirable properties are not only in my head, but in everyones, which may be part of the cause of the discrimination. And gender studies is a huuuuge field of research, so don't be so quick to assume things haven't been done. Not that I understand exactly what you claim hasn't been done though. But I am not sure if that addresses your standpoint. Anyway, I don't see this conversation going anywhere good, so I think I'll just drop it, sorry.

i learned about swj on TL. it means social justice warrior. i started using it every time people are out of touch with day to day realities.
in general, it's ok to theorize ideas/concepts/phrasings and their meanings, but to expect them to apply unconditionally to real life is smugness.
the bolded part is your mistake. there is no everyone's. actually, you'd be surprised how less of "everyone's" you have there.
i don't know why you like to assume that everyone you perceive as a victim, is on your side or is even a victim.

as an exercise, go to a girl and tell her she has at least one undesirable propriety and see how that goes.
i'd be offended.