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On May 24 2015 00:56 swag_bro wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2015 21:17 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On May 23 2015 20:31 OtherWorld wrote:On May 23 2015 19:03 helpman175 wrote:
To what degree do social sites with an upvote system create group think and normalised contributions? High degree. Very high. I agree. Even though there's internet anonymity, belonging to a social forum still brings with it a level of social desirability among users (especially new users who aren't trolls). It's very easy to upvote things that everyone else is upvoting, for example, to feel like you fit in. belong to a community? You sound like communist advocate looking for everyone to conform to a norm. Social sites do not need an up voting system for people to contribute well. You really have this groupthink thing down don't you? Not everyone needs to or wants to feel like they fit in. You're an American, you should know all about individualism, so why are you heavily advocating conformity?
I'm a little confused; are your statements/ questions aimed at me? I sound like a Communist for describing the effect that social forums have on some users? I'm not advocating conformity or groupthink; I'm merely noting that social desirability is a real thing... in fact, there's an entire psychological bias centered around it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_desirability_bias
I'm not saying it's good or bad; I'm merely elaborating on an answer to helpman's question.
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How much religion would there be in the world, if parents didn't force their kids into having a religious belief?
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On May 24 2015 09:44 fruity. wrote:
How much religion would there be in the world, if parents didn't force their kids into having a religious belief?
I'd imagine it would significantly decrease every generation due to scientific knowledge and other advancements in knowledge and explanation.
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France17333 Posts
On May 24 2015 09:44 fruity. wrote:
How much religion would there be in the world, if parents didn't force their kids into having a religious belief?
What do you mean by parents forcing their kids into having a religious belief? Children are naturally influenced by their parents and to a greater extent by their social environment as a whole. Transmitting religious beliefs is much like the transmission of social values and political opinions, it isn't forced.
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The falacy is thinking that religion is a) forced and b) only spread by birthers.
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I just got this ad on the TL sidebar and was wondering what you guys thought.
+ Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/uIkvVww.png) Poll: Is that a dude in the pic?(Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
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Sometimes you have to improvise, not every company has enough money to get real women for photoshooting.
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On May 24 2015 10:40 OtherWorld wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2015 09:44 fruity. wrote:
How much religion would there be in the world, if parents didn't force their kids into having a religious belief?
What do you mean by parents forcing their kids into having a religious belief? Children are naturally influenced by their parents and to a greater extent by their social environment as a whole. Transmitting religious beliefs is much like the transmission of social values and political opinions, it isn't forced.
It may not be forced, but it is heavily pressured. There is so much societal pressure to conform to social norms like religion or being straight. The asker was implying that there is so much pressure from society to be part of some sort of religious affiliation that it seems forced.
That is true. Society puts too much pressure on people on not only religion, but also things like having a perfectly sculpted body while still enjoying junk food, going to college and making 6 figures later, being straight and marrying the opposite to reproduce for the future. I can go on and on about how much the pressure from society is basically forcing people to conform to social norms while still trying to push the notion that individualism is the most important thing a person can do for themselves.
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On May 24 2015 15:49 swag_bro wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2015 10:40 OtherWorld wrote:On May 24 2015 09:44 fruity. wrote:
How much religion would there be in the world, if parents didn't force their kids into having a religious belief?
What do you mean by parents forcing their kids into having a religious belief? Children are naturally influenced by their parents and to a greater extent by their social environment as a whole. Transmitting religious beliefs is much like the transmission of social values and political opinions, it isn't forced. It may not be forced, but it is heavily pressured. There is so much societal pressure to conform to social norms like religion or being straight. The asker was implying that there is so much pressure from society to be part of some sort of religious affiliation that it seems forced. That is true. Society puts too much pressure on people on not only religion, but also things like having a perfectly sculpted body while still enjoying junk food, going to college and making 6 figures later, being straight and marrying the opposite to reproduce for the future. I can go on and on about how much the pressure from society is basically forcing people to conform to social norms while still trying to push the notion that individualism is the most important thing a person can do for themselves.
By society--what do you mean?
Let me put it this way. Is there more pressure to be religious than there is to be popular? To be rich? Or is religion just one of the many infinite things that people juggle with in their day to day lives?
Let me put it this way.
Which of these groups have more people getting killed for having their beliefs?
Theists
Atheists
Now, ask yourself, which one do you think suffers more for having their belief?
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On May 24 2015 15:54 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2015 15:49 swag_bro wrote:On May 24 2015 10:40 OtherWorld wrote:On May 24 2015 09:44 fruity. wrote:
How much religion would there be in the world, if parents didn't force their kids into having a religious belief?
What do you mean by parents forcing their kids into having a religious belief? Children are naturally influenced by their parents and to a greater extent by their social environment as a whole. Transmitting religious beliefs is much like the transmission of social values and political opinions, it isn't forced. It may not be forced, but it is heavily pressured. There is so much societal pressure to conform to social norms like religion or being straight. The asker was implying that there is so much pressure from society to be part of some sort of religious affiliation that it seems forced. That is true. Society puts too much pressure on people on not only religion, but also things like having a perfectly sculpted body while still enjoying junk food, going to college and making 6 figures later, being straight and marrying the opposite to reproduce for the future. I can go on and on about how much the pressure from society is basically forcing people to conform to social norms while still trying to push the notion that individualism is the most important thing a person can do for themselves. By society--what do you mean? Let me put it this way. Is there more pressure to be religious than there is to be popular? To be rich? Or is religion just one of the many infinite things that people juggle with in their day to day lives? Let me put it this way. Which of these groups have more people getting killed for having their beliefs? Theists Atheists Now, ask yourself, which one do you think suffers more for having their belief?
It's arguable which group suffers more. Religious people have been making each other suffer for millions of years but internally, they feel content. They feel correct in whatever they believe in.
The societal pressures (from whatever society you belong to) on the other hand, makes people who do not wish to conform suffer on the inside, spiritually and emotionally. And they will always suffer unless either they do what those around them wants or those around them changes and opens their minds.
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France17333 Posts
On May 24 2015 15:49 swag_bro wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2015 10:40 OtherWorld wrote:On May 24 2015 09:44 fruity. wrote:
How much religion would there be in the world, if parents didn't force their kids into having a religious belief?
What do you mean by parents forcing their kids into having a religious belief? Children are naturally influenced by their parents and to a greater extent by their social environment as a whole. Transmitting religious beliefs is much like the transmission of social values and political opinions, it isn't forced. It may not be forced, but it is heavily pressured. There is so much societal pressure to conform to social norms like religion or being straight. The asker was implying that there is so much pressure from society to be part of some sort of religious affiliation that it seems forced. That is true. Society puts too much pressure on people on not only religion, but also things like having a perfectly sculpted body while still enjoying junk food, going to college and making 6 figures later, being straight and marrying the opposite to reproduce for the future. I can go on and on about how much the pressure from society is basically forcing people to conform to social norms while still trying to push the notion that individualism is the most important thing a person can do for themselves.
Well, as I said, one individual's social environment(s) heavily influence(s) the person said individual becomes. It may be "heavily pressured", fair enough, but the human being cannot live while not being in society, as he is a social animal ; thus it is obligatory that he'll be influenced by the society he lives in, and it is unavoidable that he'll either conform to social norms, either if it goes against his personal feelings, or be considered and outsider to the society he didn't conform to (or he can also find safety in a "subsociety" in which people, like him, don't follow a given norm).
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If you are really from Japan, do you have some insights in Japanese societal pressure?
I have heard that it is a lot more pronounced than in Western societies.
Things like 'Hikkomori' and 'Sōshoku danshi' seem to be trending for that reason.
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On May 24 2015 17:31 helpman176 wrote:
If you are really from Japan, do you have some insights in Japanese societal pressure?
I have heard that it is a lot more pronounced than in Western societies.
Things like 'Hikkomori' and 'Sōshoku danshi' seem to be trending for that reason.
Okay let me tell you a little something about Japan and pressure on life.
Japanese people really want to succeed, as with most Asians. In high school, we have to take a university entrance exam to get into one, and we are expected to get into a good one. During the final 2 years of high school, we study our asses off in order to try to get into a good school to please our parents. Japan has a very high teen suicide rate because we feel so pressured by parents and society to do well on school that if a wrench gets thrown into the gears, some of us break down.
Then we have pressures of being in the job. Japanese people are very focused on image and perception. We want to look good. That is why we work so hard and stay for overtime so often even though, really, it is not necessary most of the time. It is another scheme to look like we are working harder.
Speaking of perception from the public, we are expected to be polite and indirect and read people to see what they really want. It is just a retarded ploy to look polite in front of others. Sometimes it is good, sometimes not. But it is part of the whole "it's not you, it's me" thing to look polite. Japanese just want to look polite so we almost never refuse things unless it's utterly ridiculous.
I will give you an example of the above:
You are walking and texting while holding a cup of tea. You run into a Japanese guy and you spill tea on him and his things fall. Because of Japanese culture of not wanting to blame others in order to look kind, the Japanese guy will say it was his fault even though everything points towards being your fault. When he smiles and apologizes and blames himself, he is basically saying "watch where you're going you piece of shit."
All in all, for school, Japanese are expected to do well to go to top universities and get into big companies like Sony. For work, Japanese are pressured into useless overtime (a lot of the time) to look like hardworkers and to avoid conflict with the boss. This is part of that whole Asians are submissive bullshit. Then we are pressured by society to be polite even though we should not have to. Never say no.
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On May 24 2015 10:40 OtherWorld wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2015 09:44 fruity. wrote:
How much religion would there be in the world, if parents didn't force their kids into having a religious belief?
What do you mean by parents forcing their kids into having a religious belief? Children are naturally influenced by their parents and to a greater extent by their social environment as a whole. Transmitting religious beliefs is much like the transmission of social values and political opinions, it isn't forced.
A lot of it is forced in America, but that's also how social values and political opinions are often transmitted as well (although it's probably easier to impress religious values at a younger age than it is partisan politics). The media and communities are really good at pushing religious stigmas and stereotypes (e.g., Fox News's War on Christmas/ Christians, "All Muslims are evil", "All atheists are bad/ immoral people", etc.). Plus, from birth, babies are looked at as being Christian/ religious babies due to their procedures/ sacraments (e.g., Baptism), despite babies not yet having the cognitive ability to consider religious beliefs and voluntarily choose what religion to believe in. (A baby isn't born a Christian baby; it is a baby with Christian parents. However, we grow up assuming the label our parents give us.) They're born into it- much like social/ political values eventually- but a lot of that is forced, in my opinion. (I don't think transmission and force are mutually exclusive entities, but perhaps that's just a semantics argument?)
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On May 24 2015 15:54 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Let me put it this way.
Which of these groups have more people getting killed for having their beliefs?
Theists
Atheists
Now, ask yourself, which one do you think suffers more for having their belief?
I would answer Theists in both questions.
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the whole "atheism" word is a strange thing. I mean, it's weird to classify a group of people by the thing they don't believe in or don't do. I don't play soccer, and we don't gather around, us non-soccer players, telling about how much we don't play soccer
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On May 24 2015 21:22 oGoZenob wrote:
the whole "atheism" word is a strange thing. I mean, it's weird to classify a group of people by the thing they don't believe in or don't do. I don't play soccer, and we don't gather around, us non-soccer players, telling about how much we don't play soccer
Have you checked the atheism subreddit? It's pretty much "Look at what these Theist did/said/think !"
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I hate people that don't play soccer. They feel very entitled and think that they can just not play soccer whenever they want.
If you question them why they don't play soccer, they give you some bullshit excuses like "I don't know man, soccer is not for me!". The world would be a better place without people that don't play soccer!
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On May 24 2015 21:25 TMG26 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2015 21:22 oGoZenob wrote:
the whole "atheism" word is a strange thing. I mean, it's weird to classify a group of people by the thing they don't believe in or don't do. I don't play soccer, and we don't gather around, us non-soccer players, telling about how much we don't play soccer Have you checked the atheism subreddit? It's pretty much "Look at what these Theist did/said/think !"
The people that frequently refer to themselves as "atheists" are often more like "religion haters", and shouldn't be representative for the opinion of the average person that doesn't believe in god. I guess that goes for the soccer analogy as well, people that identify themselves as "non-football players" are probably "football haters" in practice, while most people that don't play football don't mind that others play it.
As a non-believer (and I feel a bit akward labeling myself like that... >_>), I don't want to be associated with a lot of things that "atheists" do and say in the name of atheism. I assume the same goes for most christians not wanting to be associated with what goes on at (fictional) extremist sites like "christians against muslims" or something.
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EPT
