On January 23 2015 16:25 SoSexy wrote:
In the freezer it should be fine indefinitely I think!
In the freezer it should be fine indefinitely I think!
are you a girl?
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xM(Z
Romania5276 Posts
On January 23 2015 16:25 SoSexy wrote: In the freezer it should be fine indefinitely I think! are you a girl? | ||
SoSexy
Italy3725 Posts
On January 23 2015 17:19 xM(Z wrote: Show nested quote + On January 23 2015 16:25 SoSexy wrote: In the freezer it should be fine indefinitely I think! are you a girl? ? | ||
Ghostcom
Denmark4781 Posts
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FiWiFaKi
Canada9858 Posts
To me, it seems like if it wasn't for M. A. D., there would have been little incentive to stop the Imperial expansion as many countries were undertaking. The act of using the 2 nuclear bombs on Japan is debatable, but at least the world saw first hand why behavior must completely change. If it wasn't for the nuclear bomb, I'm sure the Soviets would have continued to expand into Europe, or Germany if they won the war (alas, the 2 grave mistakes they made). And the USA was far from innocent, and their strategic goals could encompass a lot without the threat of their entire population being wiped out by enemy nuclear weapons. Any way I look at it, I feel like it forced countries to be somewhat peaceful, and cooperate together. Something that hasn't happened on a large scale since... Well never as far as I can tell. | ||
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zatic
Zurich15313 Posts
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FiWiFaKi
Canada9858 Posts
Certainly my argument isn't very deep, and it just seems really logical. I wasn't aware that my opinion was the "mainstream" one, but if it is, I'm relieved (as I don't know how else one could analyse it). | ||
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zatic
Zurich15313 Posts
Would the world (today) be a better place entirely without nuclear weapons? Probably, but that is a different question. | ||
IgnE
United States7681 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
On January 23 2015 19:05 IgnE wrote: That's fine and dandy until a terrorist blows one up in a major metropolitan area. What will you say then? I thought the invention of cake was a good idea. But that's all fine and dandy until London's 10m population is drowned under a glut of cake. At least they'll die delicious. What will you say then? | ||
IgnE
United States7681 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
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IgnE
United States7681 Posts
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FiWiFaKi
Canada9858 Posts
On January 23 2015 19:04 zatic wrote: Well, at least that MAD likely prevented an actual "hot" war between highly advanced military is I believe mainstream. And that is commonly seen as a good thing. Would the world (today) be a better place entirely without nuclear weapons? Probably, but that is a different question. That was the premise for my argument - that a world with nuclear weapons is better than without any. | ||
Ghostcom
Denmark4781 Posts
On January 23 2015 19:00 FiWiFaKi wrote: Is it? Tesla opposed them, and many scientists working on the project said it was the biggest mistake of their lives. People I talk to in person here are also under the impression that the world would have been better without them. Certainly my argument isn't very deep, and it just seems really logical. I wasn't aware that my opinion was the "mainstream" one, but if it is, I'm relieved (as I don't know how else one could analyse it). I think the reason why many of the scientists said so after Hiroshima/Nagasaki - and I think their regrets weren't so much the invention as the fact that it was actually used. | ||
Simberto
Germany11330 Posts
On January 23 2015 19:38 FiWiFaKi wrote: Show nested quote + On January 23 2015 19:04 zatic wrote: Well, at least that MAD likely prevented an actual "hot" war between highly advanced military is I believe mainstream. And that is commonly seen as a good thing. Would the world (today) be a better place entirely without nuclear weapons? Probably, but that is a different question. That was the premise for my argument - that a world with nuclear weapons is better than without any. Though we are ignoring survivors bias here. There were many situations where the cold war could have turned hot despite both sides having nuclear weapons. The scary thing about nuclear weapons is their apocalyptic threat. Conventional wars are really bad. But you can usually rebuild afterwards. A global nuclear war is simply the end of humanity as we know it. Which makes them very scary, unless you assume that noone would ever really use them. At which point MAD is also pointless. And if MAD works because they are so scary that you would never risk the other guy using them, what happens if one side makes a mistake in that regard and misjudges what the other guy would see as a large enough threat to start nuking? | ||
FiWiFaKi
Canada9858 Posts
On January 23 2015 19:05 IgnE wrote: That's fine and dandy until a terrorist blows one up in a major metropolitan area. What will you say then? While individuals often don't act rationally (as in, act as to maximize their utility) , societies do so long they aren't under significant influence of religion. And because building a nuclear weapon requires a significant investment not really achievable by a single individual... It's relatively easy for a society to monitor. So it should not be something that happens outside of... well... Countries where individual life is not valued as highly as other motives. | ||
Ghostcom
Denmark4781 Posts
On January 23 2015 19:52 FiWiFaKi wrote: Show nested quote + On January 23 2015 19:05 IgnE wrote: That's fine and dandy until a terrorist blows one up in a major metropolitan area. What will you say then? While individuals often don't act rationally (as in, act as to maximize their utility) , societies do so long they aren't under significant influence of religion. And because building a nuclear weapon requires a significant investment not really achievable by a single individual... It's relatively easy for a society to monitor. So it should not be something that happens outside of... well... Countries where individual life is not valued as highly as other motives. I see plenty of moronic acts by society at large without any religious influence. How about we keep that debate out of here? | ||
IgnE
United States7681 Posts
On January 23 2015 19:52 FiWiFaKi wrote: Show nested quote + On January 23 2015 19:05 IgnE wrote: That's fine and dandy until a terrorist blows one up in a major metropolitan area. What will you say then? While individuals often don't act rationally (as in, act as to maximize their utility) , societies do so long they aren't under significant influence of religion. And because building a nuclear weapon requires a significant investment not really achievable by a single individual... It's relatively easy for a society to monitor. So it should not be something that happens outside of... well... Countries where individual life is not valued as highly as other motives. The world is still, right now, in very real danger of experiencing a nuclear holocaust. It's not so hard to make a nuclear weapon, just as it's not so hard to engineer a preternaturally deadly and wildly virulent pathogen. Russia has hundreds and thousands of nuclear weapons in scarcely defended, cold-war era technology military sites. Laray Polk:What immediate tensions do you perceive that could lead to nuclear war? How close are we? Noam Chomsky:Actually, nuclear war has come unpleasantly close many times since 1945. There are literally dozens of occasions in which there was a significant threat of nuclear war. There was one time in 1962 when it was very close, and furthermore, it’s not just the United States. India and Pakistan have come close to nuclear war several times, and the issues remain. Both India and Pakistan are expanding their nuclear arsenals with US support. There are serious possibilities involved with Iran—not Iranian nuclear weapons, but just attacking Iran—and other things can just go wrong. It’s a very tense system, always has been. There are plenty of times when automated systems in the United States— and in Russia,it’s probably worse—have warned of a nuclear attack which would set off an automatic response except that human intervention happened to take place in time, and sometimes in a matter of minutes. That’s playing with fire. That’s a low-probability event, but with low-probability events over a long period, the probability is not low. There is another possibility that, I think, is not to be dismissed: nuclear terror. Like a dirty bomb in New York City, let’s say. It wouldn’t take tremendous facility to do that. I know US intelligence or people like Graham Allison at Harvard who works on this, they regard it as very likely in the coming years—and who knows what kind of reaction there would be to that. So, I think there are plenty of possibilities. I think it is getting worse. Just like the proliferation problem is getting worse. Take a couple of cases: In September 2009, the Security Council did pass a resolution, S/RES/1887, which was interpreted here as a resolution against Iran. In part it was, but it also called on all states to join the Non-Proliferation Treaty. That’s three states: India, Pakistan, and Israel. The Obama administration immediately informed India that this didn’t apply to them; it informed Israel that it doesn’t apply to them. If India expands its nuclear capacity, Pakistan almost has to; it can’t compete with India with conventional forces. Not surprisingly, Pakistan developed its nuclear weapons with indirect US support. The Reagan administration pretended they didn’t know anything about it, which of course they did. India reacted to resolution 1887 by announcing that they could now produce nuclear weapons with the same yield as the superpowers. A year before, the United States had signed a deal with India, which broke the pre-existing regime and enabled the US to provide them with nuclear technology—though they hadn’t signed the Non-Proliferation Treaty. That’s in violation of congressional legislation going back to India’s first bomb, I suppose around 1974 or so. The United States kind of rammed it through the Nuclear Suppliers Group, and that opens a lot of doors. China reacted by sending nuclear technology to Pakistan. And though the claim is that the technology for India is for civilian use, that doesn’t mean much even if India doesn’t transfer that to nuclear weapons. It means they’re free to transfer what they would have spent on civilian use to nuclear weapons. And then comes this announcement in 2009 that the International Atomic Energy Agency has been repeatedly trying to get Israel to open its facilities to inspection. The US along with Europe usually has been able to block it. And more significant is the effort in the international agencies to try to move toward a nuclear-weapon-free zone in the Middle East, which would be quite significant.6 It wouldn’t solve all the problems, but whatever threat Iran may be assumed to pose—and that’s a very interesting question in itself, but let’s suppose for the moment that there is a threat—it would certainly be mitigated and might be ended by a nuclear-weapon-free zone, but the US is blocking it every step of the way. | ||
Gowerly
United Kingdom916 Posts
On January 23 2015 14:56 jetburger wrote: I had some raw chicken in the freezer since Feb 2014. Still safe to eat? It may have Freezer Burn but if not, just make sure it is cooked thoroughly, as with all chicken, and you should be fine. | ||
Djzapz
Canada10681 Posts
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