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Van Gogh self-portrait actually not Van Gogh

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Qi
Profile Joined June 2011
China31 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-22 03:32:01
June 22 2011 03:19 GMT
#1
[image loading]


It is a story of great filial love and devotion. All his life, Van Gogh never made any fortune out of his paintings. Yet, he managed to continue making hundreds and hundreds of them. How? His brother Theo supported him, financially and emotionally all throughout his wild life. But it remains one of the little mysteries in art: after a lifetime of undying support, did Van Gogh never pay any tribute to his brother, Theo. Seems like the answer was right in plain view all along.

            Artinfo.com
What did Van Gogh Museum senior researcher Louis van Tilborgh discover while gazing into the eyes of his subject of study? That maybe he wasn’t looking at old Vincent after all. The 1887 painting that Tilborgh was admiring, now on view in the show “Van Gogh in Antwerp and Paris: New Perspectives” at the Amsterdam museum, may not be a self-portrait, as was previously believed. Rather, it may be a likeness of the painter’s brother and loyal ally, Theo.

Van Tilborgh came to this startling conclusion when he noticed that the 1887 portrait, of some Van Gogh wearing a blue jacket and a straw hat against a blue backdrop, depicts a man with shaved cheeks and an ochre (not red) beard. “On top of that,” a press statement declares, “this man’s ear has a fine rounded shell, unlike Vincent’s but like Theo’s.”

If you remain skeptical that the work — which was completed during a period in which Theo and Vincent lived together in Paris — portrays Theo, just heed the advice of the press statement: “Once you start to ask questions, you may sometimes be surprised by the answers. Familiar works of art may appear in a new light: such discoveries help to keep one’s gaze sharp and fresh.”

Such wide-eyed wonder has also recently led the museum to figure out that a Van Gogh painting of laborer’s shoes dates from much later than originally believed and that “The Garden with Lovers,” depicts not the village of Asnières, as was formerly posited, but Montmartre, in Paris. Oh, and they’ve also cleared up that the painting “Wheatfield with a Lark” is actually a picture of a partridge.
Hikko
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1126 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-22 03:24:28
June 22 2011 03:23 GMT
#2
In my opinion, the brothers look so similar that it could be either of them. It definitely does look like van Gogh, even if it really is supposed to be his brother.

van Gogh had photographs taken of him, it's not like some grand mystery of who he really is...I don't think this is much to get excited about, unfortunately

Wikipedia: Self-Portraits of Vincent van Gogh
♥
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
June 22 2011 03:27 GMT
#3
Why can't it be a picture of both people? Both himself and his brother?
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Tatari
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States1179 Posts
June 22 2011 03:30 GMT
#4
On June 22 2011 12:27 Torte de Lini wrote:
Why can't it be a picture of both people? Both himself and his brother?


It's gotta be only one of them.

I mean, if he wanted both himself AND his brother, he could have painted his face and his brother's face on one head, similar to how Voldemort appeared in the first Harry Potter movie :d
A fed jungler is no longer a jungler, but a terrorist.
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
June 22 2011 03:32 GMT
#5
On June 22 2011 12:30 Tatari wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 22 2011 12:27 Torte de Lini wrote:
Why can't it be a picture of both people? Both himself and his brother?


It's gotta be only one of them.

I mean, if he wanted both himself AND his brother, he could have painted his face and his brother's face on one head, similar to how Voldemort appeared in the first Harry Potter movie :d


What I mean is. Why can't the portrait be a mix of both of him and his brother in one person/being.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
VIB
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
Brazil3567 Posts
June 22 2011 03:33 GMT
#6
It's just preliminary research, they're not sure of anything.
Great people talk about ideas. Average people talk about things. Small people talk about other people.
LOcDowN
Profile Joined February 2003
United States1015 Posts
June 22 2011 03:35 GMT
#7
Looks like White_Ra to me.
Parnage
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States7414 Posts
June 22 2011 03:37 GMT
#8
On June 22 2011 12:35 LOcDowN wrote:
Looks like White_Ra to me.


And you suddenly make me see him in that painting now..I, black magiks is this?!
-orb- Fan. Live the Nal_rA dream. || Yordles are cool.
Darth Vader
Profile Joined June 2011
United States50 Posts
June 22 2011 03:38 GMT
#9
On June 22 2011 12:23 Hikko wrote:
In my opinion, the brothers look so similar that it could be either of them. It definitely does look like van Gogh, even if it really is supposed to be his brother.

van Gogh had photographs taken of him, it's not like some grand mystery of who he really is...I don't think this is much to get excited about, unfortunately

Wikipedia: Self-Portraits of Vincent van Gogh

Why post here then. If it does not interest you, simply leave. Don't be a dick.
OT: Went to the Artinfo site, nice discussion going on there. Wish I could attend the exhibit and seminar.

here is one of the replies proving that Van Gogh indeed painted in reverse, possibly Theo.
[image loading]
Tatari
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States1179 Posts
June 22 2011 03:39 GMT
#10
On June 22 2011 12:32 Torte de Lini wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 22 2011 12:30 Tatari wrote:
On June 22 2011 12:27 Torte de Lini wrote:
Why can't it be a picture of both people? Both himself and his brother?


It's gotta be only one of them.

I mean, if he wanted both himself AND his brother, he could have painted his face and his brother's face on one head, similar to how Voldemort appeared in the first Harry Potter movie :d


What I mean is. Why can't the portrait be a mix of both of him and his brother in one person/being.


The portrait could be a mix of them. It's just that one of the brothers' face is hidden behind that hat. :d

I know what you're talking about. But if the brothers are so similar in appearance what's the point in mixing their faces? Unless Van Gogh wanted his audience to guess for all eternity who it was... which could be entirely possible.
A fed jungler is no longer a jungler, but a terrorist.
LOcDowN
Profile Joined February 2003
United States1015 Posts
June 22 2011 03:40 GMT
#11
On June 22 2011 12:37 Parnage wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 22 2011 12:35 LOcDowN wrote:
Looks like White_Ra to me.


And you suddenly make me see him in that painting now..I, black magiks is this?!


You're welcome bro T_T
Rybka
Profile Joined March 2010
United States836 Posts
June 22 2011 04:02 GMT
#12
Nice post OP, very interesting
"I like winter, you can put a beer outside of the window and come back later to have it nice and cold. But in Belgium, it'd better be the 3rd floor window." -Rowa
VIB
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
Brazil3567 Posts
June 22 2011 04:07 GMT
#13
On June 22 2011 12:35 LOcDowN wrote:
Looks like White_Ra to me.
Wtf it really is identical. Speshial paintings.
Great people talk about ideas. Average people talk about things. Small people talk about other people.
ninini
Profile Joined June 2010
Sweden1204 Posts
June 22 2011 04:10 GMT
#14
Maybe he ran out of red paint?
Hikko
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1126 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-22 04:28:55
June 22 2011 04:20 GMT
#15
On June 22 2011 12:19 Qi wrote:
[image loading]




[image loading]


Coincidence?
♥
KimJongChill
Profile Joined January 2011
United States6429 Posts
June 22 2011 04:24 GMT
#16
On June 22 2011 13:20 Hikko wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 22 2011 12:19 Qi wrote:
[image loading]




[image loading]


Coincidence?


So basically, Van Gogh was painting White-ra, presaging the awesomeness that would emerge decades later. I can buy it ;D
MMA: U realise MMA: Most of my army EgIdra: fuck off MMA: Killed my orbital MMA: LOL MMA: just saying MMA: u werent loss
Sovetsky Soyuz
Profile Joined May 2011
Russian Federation905 Posts
June 22 2011 04:26 GMT
#17
On June 22 2011 13:24 KimJongChill wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 22 2011 13:20 Hikko wrote:
On June 22 2011 12:19 Qi wrote:
[image loading]




[image loading]


Coincidence?


So basically, Van Gogh was painting White-ra, presaging the awesomeness that would emerge decades later. I can buy it ;D

Van Goghstradamus?
LOcDowN
Profile Joined February 2003
United States1015 Posts
June 22 2011 04:28 GMT
#18
On June 22 2011 13:07 VIB wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 22 2011 12:35 LOcDowN wrote:
Looks like White_Ra to me.
Wtf it really is identical. Speshial paintings.


More like speshial tactiks T_T
Mikilatov
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States3897 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-22 04:31:41
June 22 2011 04:29 GMT
#19
Wow, White-Ra's face really is everywhere...
♥ I used to lasso the shit out of your tournaments =( ♥ | Much is my hero. | zizi yO~ | Be Nice, TL.
Hikko
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1126 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-23 01:14:32
June 22 2011 04:29 GMT
#20
[image loading]

♥
Ludwigvan
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Germany2371 Posts
June 22 2011 11:08 GMT
#21
Interesting. I don't know about the beard color, because looking at other self portraits, he uses quite different colors, but the ear explanation is pretty reasonable. I looked at a few other self portraits from the link above and the ear always is painted in this odd shape. So a different ear is strange. The other thing I learn from this is that the names of the paintings are often not from the artist, but are added later.
RA
Profile Joined October 2008
Latvia791 Posts
June 22 2011 11:24 GMT
#22
Really?
Mykill
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Canada3402 Posts
June 22 2011 11:25 GMT
#23
Interesting, he may just have painted what he thought he saw a blend of himself and his brother. this doesn't really change anything...
[~~The Impossible Leads To Invention~~] CJ Entusman #52 The problem with internet quotations is that they are hard to verify -Abraham Lincoln c.1863
Qi
Profile Joined June 2011
China31 Posts
June 22 2011 23:51 GMT
#24
On June 22 2011 20:25 Mykill wrote:
Interesting, he may just have painted what he thought he saw a blend of himself and his brother. this doesn't really change anything...

To the usual dude it doesn't. But if you take this as a cultural text that it really is, it means a lot. Note that this is part of an exhibit called Van Gogh: New Perspectives. Sometimes there is more to art, especially those that we have seen so much that we already take for granted.
emperorchampion
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada9496 Posts
June 22 2011 23:55 GMT
#25
On June 22 2011 12:35 LOcDowN wrote:
Looks like White_Ra to me.


hahaha, omg lol
TRUEESPORTS || your days as a respected member of team liquid are over
dudeman001
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States2412 Posts
June 22 2011 23:57 GMT
#26
On June 23 2011 08:55 emperorchampion wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 22 2011 12:35 LOcDowN wrote:
Looks like White_Ra to me.


hahaha, omg lol

I can't stop laughing. Omg White-Ra, you really are everywhere. Obviously if it's him then it couldn't be Van Gogh's self portrait, unless of course... White-Ra IS Van Gogh. O_O
Sup.
aeroH
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States1034 Posts
June 23 2011 00:06 GMT
#27
On June 22 2011 13:20 Hikko wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 22 2011 12:19 Qi wrote:
[image loading]




[image loading]


Coincidence?

just beautiful
Rybka
Profile Joined March 2010
United States836 Posts
June 23 2011 00:18 GMT
#28
On June 22 2011 13:29 Hikko wrote:
[image loading]



LOOOOOOOOOOLOLOLOL :D
"I like winter, you can put a beer outside of the window and come back later to have it nice and cold. But in Belgium, it'd better be the 3rd floor window." -Rowa
kikimama
Profile Joined April 2010
Korea (South)297 Posts
June 23 2011 01:05 GMT
#29
it's him but he's just not that good at painting.
Lochat
Profile Joined January 2011
United States270 Posts
June 23 2011 01:11 GMT
#30
On June 22 2011 12:30 Tatari wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 22 2011 12:27 Torte de Lini wrote:
Why can't it be a picture of both people? Both himself and his brother?


It's gotta be only one of them.

I mean, if he wanted both himself AND his brother, he could have painted his face and his brother's face on one head, similar to how Voldemort appeared in the first Harry Potter movie :d


Uh, he was an impressionist... it's quite reasonable his picture could be both of them at once.
"The trouble was that he was talking in philosophy, but they were listening in gibberish." -- (Terry Pratchett, Small Gods)
Noxie
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2227 Posts
June 23 2011 01:15 GMT
#31
On June 23 2011 10:11 Lochat wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 22 2011 12:30 Tatari wrote:
On June 22 2011 12:27 Torte de Lini wrote:
Why can't it be a picture of both people? Both himself and his brother?


It's gotta be only one of them.

I mean, if he wanted both himself AND his brother, he could have painted his face and his brother's face on one head, similar to how Voldemort appeared in the first Harry Potter movie :d


Uh, he was an impressionist... it's quite reasonable his picture could be both of them at once.


This. Though I think he just changed his portrait.. its not that uncommon...I might run this by some of my Art professors but in my opinion its still his painting & self portrait.
vectorix108
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States4633 Posts
June 23 2011 01:18 GMT
#32
Wow, that's an interesting revelation. I'm always awed by the greatness that is Van Gogh.
Aka XephyR/Shaneyesss
StyLeD
Profile Joined January 2011
United States2965 Posts
June 23 2011 01:19 GMT
#33
On June 23 2011 10:18 vectorix108 wrote:
Wow, that's an interesting revelation. I'm always awed by the greatness that is Van Gogh.


that is White-Ra, you mean.
"Even gophers love Starcraft" - Tasteless. || Davichi | IU <3
Xiphos
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada7507 Posts
June 23 2011 04:21 GMT
#34
Guys, you are making my mind fried with the White-Ra references!!!!
2014 - ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ Raise your bows brood warriors! ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ
0neder
Profile Joined July 2009
United States3733 Posts
June 23 2011 04:32 GMT
#35
LOL at whitera. Seriously though, this is just an academic trying to make some waves. The beard is colored differently because the environment is cool in the blue one. Also, it was never Van Gogh's style to be precise, the paintings are close enough.
Zedders
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada450 Posts
June 23 2011 04:42 GMT
#36
oh god TL i love you so much

I will never look at van gogh the same.

Gogh-Ra cannot b unseen
Deadlyhazard
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1177 Posts
June 23 2011 04:59 GMT
#37
On June 23 2011 10:05 kikimama wrote:
it's him but he's just not that good at painting.

And I'm guessing you're a painter yourself to know that. /sarcasm

I can understand not liking his stuff, but to say he's bad at painting? No, he's a master. Making a painting like his is very, very difficult, and only an extremely skilled craftsman can pull off an impressionistic portrait like that. Each stroke has wonderful color temperature, placement, and color value. That's something very very few artists can pull off, he's sooooo far from bad.
Hark!
Ponyo
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States1231 Posts
June 23 2011 05:42 GMT
#38
I was so touched by the original OP. Then I saw WHITE RA and now im like van gogh best painter kthx.
ponyo.848
danbel1005
Profile Joined February 2008
United States1319 Posts
June 23 2011 05:59 GMT
#39
On June 22 2011 13:29 Hikko wrote:
[image loading]



Ok so where is White-Ra in this picture anyways?... I only see Van Gogh.

"EE HAN TIMING" Jaedong vs Stork [22 December, 2007] 2set @ Finals EVER OSL.
Destro
Profile Joined September 2009
Netherlands1206 Posts
June 23 2011 06:38 GMT
#40
On June 23 2011 10:05 kikimama wrote:
it's him but he's just not that good at painting.


eye of the beholder... not that good at painting would have meant we would have never known his name.
bring back weapon of choice for hots!
BLinD-RawR
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
ALLEYCAT BLUES50752 Posts
June 23 2011 06:41 GMT
#41
I think this thread can tie into the White-Ra is everywhere thread.
Brood War EICWoo Jung Ho, never forget.| Twitter: @BLinDRawR
LoLAdriankat
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States4307 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-23 06:49:22
June 23 2011 06:48 GMT
#42
White-Ra is immortal.

I don't know much about Van Gogh, but I always recognized that portrait as a portrait of Van Gogh. This is a pretty huge step in art history.
han_han
Profile Joined October 2010
United States205 Posts
June 23 2011 08:38 GMT
#43
I can't believe I didn't see WhiteRa in it all this time.

The more I look at it now, the more I see our loveable protoss pro-gamer.

I'm fairly certain that Van Gogh was not painting either himself or his brother. He was painting WhiteRa.
Crazyeyes
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada1342 Posts
June 23 2011 08:53 GMT
#44
On June 22 2011 20:24 RA wrote:
Really?

This made me laugh most of all.
"Really? Are we really going down that path?"

This thread is now about White-Ra. XD

The fact that he painted 'in reverse' seems really... insignificant.
WeeEEeeEEEeeEEEeeeEEee!!
DivinO
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States4796 Posts
June 23 2011 08:53 GMT
#45
I really wish I understood Van Gogh sometimes.
LiquipediaBrain in my filth.
VictorJones
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States235 Posts
June 23 2011 08:54 GMT
#46
I agree with everything Tatari has to say.
aseq
Profile Joined January 2003
Netherlands3996 Posts
June 23 2011 09:41 GMT
#47
Haha I never liked him a bit anyway. Even though he's supposed to be awesome, I never got the hype. There are a lot of classical painters who I think were absolutely great, but Van Gogh just looks like he ran out of small brushes. No art 'critic' I ever talk to can offer me an decent explanation of his greatness beyond this gimmick.
Kaonis
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States243 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-23 09:47:26
June 23 2011 09:46 GMT
#48
+ Show Spoiler +
Looks like the appraisers played it by ear...


+ Show Spoiler +
*puts on sunglasses*


+ Show Spoiler +
... and they saw that something was off.


+ Show Spoiler +
YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH


On topic, it's pretty cool to see the art world being shaken up a little. I remember reeading about how close Van Gogh was to his brother.
Nevermind.
Crazyboogie
Profile Joined January 2011
Denmark19 Posts
June 23 2011 09:49 GMT
#49
Duckload Van Gogh sounds alright to me.
"He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man"
Juliette
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States6003 Posts
June 23 2011 09:52 GMT
#50
On June 23 2011 18:46 Kaonis wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
Looks like the appraisers played it by ear...


+ Show Spoiler +
*puts on sunglasses*


+ Show Spoiler +
... and they saw that something was off.


+ Show Spoiler +
YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH


On topic, it's pretty cool to see the art world being shaken up a little. I remember reeading about how close Van Gogh was to his brother.

well fucking played


i dont mind the whole art word being shaken up thing, it can be revenge for the week i had to learn about impressionism in art history ><
OKAY FROM THAT PERSPECTIVE I SEE WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT
Gladiator6
Profile Joined June 2010
Sweden7024 Posts
June 23 2011 09:54 GMT
#51
On June 22 2011 13:20 Hikko wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 22 2011 12:19 Qi wrote:
[image loading]




[image loading]


Coincidence?


I think not!
Flying, sOs, free, Light, Soulkey & ZerO
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