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Brainteaser for TeamLiquid! - Page 4

Forum Index > General Forum
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Triscuit
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States722 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-10 01:53:28
June 10 2011 01:52 GMT
#61
Yeah I also misread the question. Thought you meant the second game specifically. I even took Probability a couple semesters ago, lol.

EDIT: I probably would have tried to apply Bayes theorem to it anyway, but I'm having a hard time getting it to work out.
oxidized
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States324 Posts
June 10 2011 01:52 GMT
#62
On June 10 2011 10:39 n.DieJokes wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 10 2011 10:32 theDreamStick wrote:
On June 10 2011 10:30 n.DieJokes wrote:
That was fun, I had to read it a few times to get it. Another fun brainteaser for those so inclined, list 50 consecutive numbers all of which aren't prime


Surely you don't mean consecutive as in:

Let a,b be consecutive numbers, then b = a+1.
Multiples of 2 will bite you in the ass =)

I believe you mean list the first 50 prime numbers?

Yep, like I said its a brainteaser (actually its an anecdote I read in a introductory number theory text but its more fun phrased this way ) so a1+1=a2, a2+1=a3 and so on and so forth


Hehe, the trick here is in using factorials. At first, I was trying to do 50!, but then 50!+1 is not guaranteed to be a non-prime number.

So... you need to start on 50!+2, because that is definitely divisible by 2. But since we start on 2, we need to bump up our initial factorial by 1.

So the range will be [51!+2 , 51!+51].

Because 51! is divisible by each number between 2 and 51. so that guarantees that 51!+x is non-prime as long as x is between 2 and 51.

Cool problem.
numLoCK
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Canada1416 Posts
June 10 2011 01:53 GMT
#63
Question was easy, but people who got it wrong just answered too quickly.
A problem that turns many people off math, unfortunately
ObliviousNA
Profile Joined March 2011
United States535 Posts
June 10 2011 01:53 GMT
#64
On June 10 2011 10:36 ZeromuS wrote:
unfortunately you worded the question incorrectly and the answer you provide is incorrect as a result of the way you asked the question.

The chances the "other game was Zerg as well" is 1/3

You used the phrase "as well" in your mind as meaning "in addition to" whereas colloquially "as well" means "similarly to".

Therefore the question can be justifiably read as saying that You played Zerg in one game and what are the chances that you similarly played Zerg in the second game.

Randomly selected you could play Zerg as one of 3 races a second time in a row since each event (playing a game as Random) always has the same probability (1/3 for each race). Therefore the chances you play Zerg the second game is 1/3 since each game is its own roll of the dice if you will. This is assuming that you meant "as well" as meaning "similar to" referencing the probability to roll Zerg just like you rolled Zerg in the first game.

Had you used a different phrase then the 1/5 would be correct. Unfortunately, due to English ambiguity and the colloquial meaning of the phrase "as well" your current brain teaser is flawed.


Thank you, you explained that really well.
I thought "as well" meant "similarly to".

I no longer consider everyone else morons for saying 1/5 :D
Theory is when you know everything but nothing works. Practice is when everything works but no one knows why. In our lab, theory and practice are combined: nothing works and no one knows why.
n.DieJokes
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States3443 Posts
June 10 2011 01:56 GMT
#65
On June 10 2011 10:52 oxidized wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 10 2011 10:39 n.DieJokes wrote:
On June 10 2011 10:32 theDreamStick wrote:
On June 10 2011 10:30 n.DieJokes wrote:
That was fun, I had to read it a few times to get it. Another fun brainteaser for those so inclined, list 50 consecutive numbers all of which aren't prime


Surely you don't mean consecutive as in:

Let a,b be consecutive numbers, then b = a+1.
Multiples of 2 will bite you in the ass =)

I believe you mean list the first 50 prime numbers?

Yep, like I said its a brainteaser (actually its an anecdote I read in a introductory number theory text but its more fun phrased this way ) so a1+1=a2, a2+1=a3 and so on and so forth


+ Show Spoiler +
Hehe, the trick here is in using factorials. At first, I was trying to do 50!, but then 50!+1 is not guaranteed to be a non-prime number.

So... you need to start on 50!+2, because that is definitely divisible by 2. But since we start on 2, we need to bump up our initial factorial by 1.

So the range will be [51!+2 , 51!+51].

Because 51! is divisible by each number between 2 and 51. so that guarantees that 51!+x is non-prime as long as x is between 2 and 51.

Cool problem.

^^ This is correct
MyLove + Your Love= Supa Love
InvalidID
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States1050 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-10 02:21:28
June 10 2011 01:57 GMT
#66
Here is how I interpreted your question:

Using Bayes Theorem:

P(A|B) = P(B|A)*P(A) / P(B) . P(B|A) = 1 P(A) = 1/3 P(B)=1 .
P(A|B) = 0.33 = 1/3
This is because you already stated that you were Zerg in one game. The probability that you were Zerg in one game is 100% because you already knew that. Because you already knew you were Zerg one game the only three possible options are: ZZ ZP or ZT. You asked what the other game was, so the order is irrelevant.
Disquiet
Profile Joined January 2011
Australia628 Posts
June 10 2011 02:00 GMT
#67
Its not a paradox, its all to do with how you frame the question. You are asking for the joint probability, which is 1/5. The people who are answering 1/3 are simply answering the wrong question correctly, which is considering the second game interdependently as a separate event.. Because you worded it in a rather ambiguous way its not surprising so many people answered 1/3.
Madoga
Profile Joined January 2011
Netherlands471 Posts
June 10 2011 02:01 GMT
#68
You are missusing a variation on the the monty hall problem, the awser is 1/3.
Isaac
Profile Joined August 2010
United States810 Posts
June 10 2011 02:04 GMT
#69
What does it matter that thers a chance that you played zerg the first game
number one fan of marineking
Tektos
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia1321 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-10 02:14:27
June 10 2011 02:11 GMT
#70
On June 10 2011 10:11 theDreamStick wrote:

Poll: Probability that my other game was Zerg?

1/3 (262)
 
48%

1/5 (249)
 
45%

1/2 (28)
 
5%

1/4 (9)
 
2%

548 total votes

Your vote: Probability that my other game was Zerg?

(Vote): 1/2
(Vote): 1/3
(Vote): 1/4
(Vote): 1/5




"Poll: Probability that my other game was Zerg?"

The probability of your OTHER game being Zerg is mutually exclusive to the race of your original game.
Hence the option of what race you play in your other game are: Z, P, T.

Z is 1 of 3 possible options, hence the probability is 1/3


You worded your question incorrectly.



The question you provided an answer for is: "What is the probability that both my games were played as zerg given at least one game was played as zerg" which is indeed 1/5.
Schneeflocke
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada89 Posts
June 10 2011 02:11 GMT
#71
Eveyone knows the answer is 1/3, esp where it says "CLARIFICATION: I'm talking about -my- race" which only leaves ZvZ, ZvP and ZvT.
Risen
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States7927 Posts
June 10 2011 02:20 GMT
#72
On June 10 2011 11:11 Tektos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 10 2011 10:11 theDreamStick wrote:

Poll: Probability that my other game was Zerg?

1/3 (262)
 
48%

1/5 (249)
 
45%

1/2 (28)
 
5%

1/4 (9)
 
2%

548 total votes

Your vote: Probability that my other game was Zerg?

(Vote): 1/2
(Vote): 1/3
(Vote): 1/4
(Vote): 1/5




"Poll: Probability that my other game was Zerg?"

The probability of your OTHER game being Zerg is mutually exclusive to the race of your original game.
Hence the option of what race you play in your other game are: Z, P, T.

Z is 1 of 3 possible options, hence the probability is 1/3


You worded your question incorrectly.



The question you provided an answer for is: "What is the probability that both my games were played as zerg given at least one game was played as zerg" which is indeed 1/5.


This, this, this. I was like how the hell are people confused about this? lol
Pufftrees Everyday>its like a rifter that just used X-Factor/Liquid'Nony: I hope no one lip read XD/Holyflare>it's like policy lynching but better/Resident Los Angeles bachelor
W2
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States1177 Posts
June 10 2011 02:20 GMT
#73
im confused, i thought it was 1/3 as well.

You say you played zerg at least once... so it's zt zp zz as possibilities... I took all of them same likelihood so 1/3? Where did i go wrong?
Hi
Risen
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States7927 Posts
June 10 2011 02:22 GMT
#74
On June 10 2011 11:20 W2 wrote:
im confused, i thought it was 1/3 as well.

You say you played zerg at least once... so it's zt zp zz as possibilities... I took all of them same likelihood so 1/3? Where did i go wrong?


You didn't. OP worded his question wrong. The answer is 1/3
Pufftrees Everyday>its like a rifter that just used X-Factor/Liquid'Nony: I hope no one lip read XD/Holyflare>it's like policy lynching but better/Resident Los Angeles bachelor
nitdkim
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
1264 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-10 02:23:35
June 10 2011 02:22 GMT
#75
I have a coin. I flipped it twice. It was heads at least once. What is the probability that it was heads on the 2nd flip?

(the real teaser :p)
PM me if you want random korean images translated.
SUSUGAM
Profile Joined November 2007
United States177 Posts
June 10 2011 02:24 GMT
#76
It's one thing to deliver a confusing mathematical situation, (ie. the boy/girl approach to this 'brainteaser') but it's an entirely different thing to just word it poorly and have people argue over semantics rather than the actual math behind it. The answer is 1/3, as explained by Tektos. You fooled a lot fewer people than you think you did. (Maybe it was possible that people actually saw the question as you intended, and still failed?)

Moral: Don't try to adapt 'brainteasers' to practical examples when you suck at language.

The real brainteaser is trying to figure out what you are actually asking.
bisufanboi049
Zuramed
Profile Joined May 2011
13 Posts
June 10 2011 02:24 GMT
#77
Another solution to the 50 consecutive number problem is to use negative numbers since they weren't restricted in the phrasing of the question. That was my initial answer. But that comes from knowing another mathematical brain teaser.

Find 3 numbers in an arithmetic sequence that when multiplied together yield a prime number.

Answer below:
+ Show Spoiler +
-3, -1, 1
Reborn8u
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States1761 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-10 02:33:05
June 10 2011 02:25 GMT
#78
On June 10 2011 10:31 garlicface wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 10 2011 10:26 neo_sporin wrote:
Heres the answer 1/5
Reasoning starting with a similar example but only 2 options.
I have 2 children and ONE of them is a boy, what are the odds the other is a boy

I could have:
2 boys, 1 girl and 1 boy, 1 boy and 1 girl, or 2 girls. in a first and second child breakdown.
HOWEVER, i have told you that one of them is a boy, thus 2 girls is impossible.

So now your options are 2 boys, 1 boy 1 girl, 1 girl 1 boy. the chances of the 2nd one being a boy is 1 out of 3.

You get confused because me telling you ONE of them is a boy vs telling you my first child is a boy. The boy could be item 1 or 2 or both, thus you have to account for the 1 boy 1 girl and 1 girl 1 boy choice.


Now if you reform this example but with 3 choices over 2 oppurtunites, there are 9 total pairings.
Of these, 5 of them contain at least 1 zerg, and 1 of them is a zerg zerg combination. Thus, 1/5 chance the OTHER (note, not the second) game is a zerg

Best explanation in the thread.



I have almost no understanding of probability, so help me out with something. If I flip a coin 100 times and it lands heads every time, wouldn't each flip after that still have a 50/50 chance of coming up heads?

I'm not understanding how the fact that you got zerg 1 game has any affect on the chances of you getting zerg in the next game. I would be inclined to answer 1/3, being that in any truly random event with 3 possible outcomes the likely hood of each of those outcomes would be 1/3.

The post didn't ask "what are the chances of getting zerg in both games if you got zerg at least once." Even if it did ask that, by definition how can 1 random event change the odds of another random event? The question only asks about 1 game, so how is the first game relevant to the odds of the second game?


As for the boy girl part above I am not following. You are saying that girl girl is an impossibility of course, but (boy + girl) and (girl + boy) why would you count this possibility twice? It is making both children variables, when only 1 is actually a variable.You just don't know which one is the variable. If you count (boy + girl) twice then wouldn't you have to count (Boy + Boy) twice?
:)
funtimeplayer
Profile Joined April 2009
United States15 Posts
June 10 2011 02:25 GMT
#79
On June 10 2011 11:11 Tektos wrote:
[...]
The probability of your OTHER game being Zerg is mutually exclusive to the race of your original game.
Hence the option of what race you play in your other game are: Z, P, T.

Z is 1 of 3 possible options, hence the probability is 1/3

You worded your question incorrectly.

The question you provided an answer for is: "What is the probability that both my games were played as zerg given at least one game was played as zerg" which is indeed 1/5.


I agree, well said.
SUSUGAM
Profile Joined November 2007
United States177 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-10 02:27:18
June 10 2011 02:25 GMT
#80
On June 10 2011 11:22 nitdkim wrote:
I have a coin. I flipped it twice. It was heads at least once. What is the probability that it was heads on the both times?

(the real teaser :p)


Fixed... but nice try. =/

"2nd flip" means you're asking for 1 flip's probability.
bisufanboi049
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