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Brainteaser for TeamLiquid! - Page 23

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Mente
Profile Joined December 2009
United States288 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-11 00:53:41
June 11 2011 00:48 GMT
#441
On June 11 2011 05:53 scorch- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 11 2011 05:45 Mente wrote:
On June 11 2011 05:27 Lomak wrote:
On June 11 2011 05:23 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On June 11 2011 05:18 Lomak wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
Then I am restricted to ZZ, ZP, ZT, PZ, TZ. ZZ is one out of five possible choices


So the answer is 1/5 even though you listed 6 matchups and ZvZ is in there twice as well as ZvP and ZvT. Call me names if you wish but this doesn't make any sense whatsoever.


He listed 5 pairs of games (not 6), and they aren't matchups.

ZP =/= ZvP

ZT =/= TZ, ZP =/= PZ because of the fact that they're pairs of games (getting Zerg then Terran, as opposed to Terran then Zerg).

You clearly didn't even attempt to read the OP. You literally could not be more wrong with the brain teaser's information.


Player 1 is Nestea (always playes zerg).

So player 1 is constant as Z

so the Zv? is the only question there is. IF one player is playing zerg and one is playing random, the chances of it being ZvZ are 1/3 not 1/5. Its not my fault this thread is full of condescending people bickering over a poorly written "brain teaser"


If the OP wanted people to understand WTF he was asking he would say.

2 players played 2 starcraft games as Random Vs. Random. The first game was ZVZ, AND THEN ask his question, it would make some sense. But he doesnt. He lead's you to believe that ONE player is ZERG and the OTHER is RANDOM. It's not a brain teaser if he can't even ask the question properly.


Yea this is my conclusion as well.


It's not random vs random. It's zerg vs random for 2 games. The question is how often does random roll zerg both games when your friend tells you that he saw an awesome ZvZ?


If it's zerg vs random then the only combinations for all the outcomes of the games are

Game 1:
(I'll use a and b for players a and b a is nestea who always plays zerg)

(Za,Tb), (Za,Pb), (Za,Zb)

Game 2:
(Za,Tb), (Za,Pb) (Za,Zb)

Because we know in one game there was a ZvZ we can infer from that that while there are still 5 possibilities remaining in our random series only the possibilities of the remaining game matter. Thus proving what the possibility of one out come in one game is to be 1/3rd.

If it's detecting the probability that both games are ZvZ (under no prior conditions) it's 1/9th. Under the assumption that 1 game has already been played and it was stated to be a ZvZ it would seemingly eliminate one of the possibilities out of the 6 but this isn't true. (see above paragraph)

Think of it this way:
A player rolls 2 die. One of them is a 6, what is the possibility of the other being a 6 thus both of them being a 6. Well since there are 6 sides it's going to occur 1/6th of the time. Because one outcome is guaranteed to occur you can eliminate that from the experiment.
Solomon Grundy want pants too!
Ivs
Profile Joined January 2008
Australia139 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-11 01:46:41
June 11 2011 01:38 GMT
#442
On June 11 2011 01:43 teamsolid wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 11 2011 01:16 chocorush wrote:
On June 11 2011 00:29 Ivs wrote:
People are still arguing because OP wanted to present the Boy/Girl paradox, but messed up the wording.

Now there are 3 camps of people

1. People interpreted the OP as the boy/girl paradox, even though OP failed. They say 1/5

2. People who don't really understand whats going on and go with the simplest reasoning. They say 1/3

3. People who are calling out OP's original wording and poor usage of "other", and also get the answer of 1/3.

Chill out guys, no need for name/credential calling. There is no argument here.


There is no error in the original wording. The statement, "Given that I played zerg at least once, I played zerg both times," and "I played zerg once and I played the other game zerg as well" are equivalent. People are just misconceiving how many choices they actually have, thinking that "the other game" is in reference to a specific game, when it can not be.

Exactly, the two statements are logically equivalent. The only difference is that the 2nd one is misleading, encouraging the reader to focus more on the "other game" and disregard the given information.

The 3 groups of people should be:

1. People who messed up by reading the question too quickly (even though they understand conditional probability). So, instead they to try to convince themselves and others that the OP was wrong, not them.

2. People who don't really understand whats going on and go with the simplest reasoning. They say 1/3

3. People who got the correct answer 1/5.


Although they seem equivalent, I don't think they actually are.
One is "at least 1 is zerg"
The other is "this one is zerg"

"this one is zerg" implies "at least 1 is zerg"
but "at least 1 is zerg" does NOT imply "this one is zerg"

So "this one is zerg" is giving strictly more information. Hence why the wording of "other" is important, and not the right choice for what the OP wanted to achieve.

EDIT: the OP used "at least once" which is good, but then the question becomes meaningless as it is addressing "the other", hence why it's misleading.

I think anyone who's still confused should take time to understand the different interpretations as well as reading up on the paradox. Like I said there is not much to argue here. Then again it IS the internet.
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