EPTWhy haven't there been a slew of lawsuits over it? It's technically illegal, so people should take action to stop it.
Student gets ostracized for refusing to pray - Page 5
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Zzoram
Canada7115 Posts
Why haven't there been a slew of lawsuits over it? It's technically illegal, so people should take action to stop it. | ||
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Boblhead
United States2577 Posts
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
On May 27 2011 14:06 flamewheel wrote: I'm so glad I have the right to not share my view on this whole situation. That being said, I wish the kid best of luck for the future. Also, his parents are kind of crazy. coward, lol (that's meant affectionately.. there's nothing wrong with shying away from battle or drama) besides you wouldn't want to be ostracized by this community for being outspoken regarding religion. | ||
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Megaliskuu
United States5123 Posts
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555
56 Posts
The kid however made a poor choice. You don't cry being an atheist in front of a bunch of people that would burn you at the stake a few centuries ago. He should have just made an anonymous mail to the principal and told his parents once he is old enough to leave the house himself. | ||
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Probulous
Australia3894 Posts
On May 27 2011 14:07 EmeraldSparks wrote: lots of people overrated no yes, because we abolished slavery we cant put these people in gulags probably not Please just go. This post makes no sense and in no way addresses the fundamental point that Travis was trying to make that if you don't stand up for your rights, then they will be trampled. Community views are not always right | ||
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NIJ
1012 Posts
On May 27 2011 14:02 Sanctimonius wrote: Wow. Sounds like pretty much everyone involved in this was acting poorly. I love the theme of the article - atheists good, theists bad. The whole way through it is slanted towards Fowler. It is written expressly to make you on his side. Meh. Poor and biased writing, really. And I don't agree with his actions anyways. Seperation of Church and State is guaranteed by the Constitution, nobody is arguing that. But I really disagree with him trying to force them to cancel the traditional prayer. And he was trying to force them to cancel it, regardless of what the atricle says - threatening to call in the ACLU, which the article specifically says it already in a lawsuit against another school for refusing to change their own religious traditions? That's a threat, a demand to cancel the prayer. I went to a university with plenty of religious traditions, and I knew a lot of atheists who joined in them simply as a cultural exercise, enjoying the traditions which we are left from religion. It wasn't trying to force them to convert, just as this prayer wasn't trying to force Fowler to. He had the option of opting out. Instead he tried to force everyone to follow his beliefs, tried to force his own views on the majority. Is it any wonder people were angry? Having said that, the reaction was shockingly overboard. He has the right to his views, even if I think he acted like an idiot in the first place. Hounding him, attacking him, threats of bodily violence? It's sad people think that is an acceptable way to act, even if he was attacking something dear to them. He is being bullied, and from the sound of it one teacher at least doesn't really care. Still, his parents are acting the worst in this. Throwing him out for standing up against something he disagrees with? Wow. I hope that if my kids stand up for something I don't agree with I can at least understand their position. Private university != public schools. -_- | ||
IntoTheWow
is awesome32274 Posts
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EmeraldSparks
United States1451 Posts
so one day this fucking noob called the school and threatened to sue unless we stopped doing this thing that everybody liked so somebody reported his name and we threatened to kill him in order to teach him a lesson and his parents who were horrified that their child would inform on their school and community to the central state (they had a word for that in the soviet union and it wasn't a nice one) justly threw him out of the house he had it coming, the douche is that the sort of article that you were looking for | ||
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Slaughter
United States20254 Posts
On May 27 2011 14:03 IntoTheWow wrote: You seem to have a lot to add to this discussion. I have in later posts  Anyway, it looks like one of those things were smaller town where everyone is "flexible" with the laws and simply chose to keep their prayer tradition. He broke that so it was perceived as an attack on this smaller, close community. Attacking their traditions that a lot of people obviously cared about. I really cannot get over those parents though or school officials doing that. Its one thing where kids harass people because we all know that kids can be assholes but adults? God people like that need to go away. | ||
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419
Russian Federation3631 Posts
No worries -- I'm sure there will be plenty of lawyers willing to sue the school district, there will be a quiet settlement, and everyone walks away having learned nothing. Also, a book deal perhaps? If the student knows how to play the media, he'll be fine ~ | ||
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Zzoram
Canada7115 Posts
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
On May 27 2011 14:07 EmeraldSparks wrote: lots of people overrated lol, whether or not it is overrated has nothing to do with ACTUAL LEGALITY. but I would disagree with you anyways and say it's severely underrated. | ||
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EmeraldSparks
United States1451 Posts
On May 27 2011 14:10 Probulous wrote: Please just go. This post makes no sense and in no way addresses the fundamental point that Travis was trying to make that if you don't stand up for your rights, then they will be trampled. Community views are not always right my post makes a lot of sense it is a series of answers to a series of questions if you dont want rhetorical questions answered maybe you shouldnt ask them On May 27 2011 14:12 travis wrote: lol, whether or not it is overrated has nothing to do with ACTUAL LEGALITY. but I would disagree with you anyways and say it's severely underrated. around the world its severely underrated as apostasy will get you killed in some places but nobody ever died because they had to say a prayer in school, it's not like an allergy plus legality is overrated just ask TL what it thinks of recreational marijuana usage | ||
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Zzoram
Canada7115 Posts
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404.Delirium
United States1190 Posts
Give kids (or anybody, I suppose) a target and they'll go for it =( Even if he was atheist couldn't he just... not pray or sit through it? | ||
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Jswizzy
United States791 Posts
On May 27 2011 14:05 StrangrDangr wrote: If someone is an atheist, then they believe that praying is in fact nothing and is just a waste of time. So I am curious what is so wrong with having to sit and have 3 minutes of your time wasted if it comforts and appeases the vast majority of your friends and community. What is the possible downside? It seems selfish to put a few minutes of your time over the wishes of others. Clearly you are only looking at this from your own perspective. As an atheist I see prayer as beyond useless and the God that is being prayed to as a motivation for all kinds of actions that I don't agree with. People use God to justify all kinds of horrible crimes and actions why would I want to be forced to give into that and just go along with it? I don't care if you pray but I don't want to pray because I wouldn't salute a fascist and I don't want to pray to a God who is used as a justification for evil. | ||
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IntoTheWow
is awesome32274 Posts
On May 27 2011 14:12 EmeraldSparks wrote: my post makes a lot of sense it is a series of answers to a series of questions if you dont want rhetorical questions answered maybe you shouldnt ask them around the world its severely underrated as apostasy will get you killed in some places but nobody ever died because they had to say a prayer in school, it's not like an allergy plus legality is overrated just ask TL what it thinks of recreational marijuana usage Yes, TL is the #1 source for law doctrine. | ||
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WGarrison
United States96 Posts
A read out loud prayer at a public school graduation however is indeed unconstitutional. An atheist of course does not have to pray to a read aloud prayer, but the issue is that one religious group is getting an unfair privilege in an inappropriate (illegal) venue. This is oppressing to any individual that is not a part of the privileged religion. The constitution is written in a specific zero tolerance way to prevent government owned venues for religious persecution in any form. Something as simple as a short prayer at a graduation can lead to full scale religious persecution. The law is written to prevent exactly what is occurring to Fowler. If the law was upheld regularly this whole situation would be a non issue. There would be no read aloud prayer and Fowler would not be in the news. Please note that I am only speaking to the legality of the issue and that I have no opinions here of the actions of individuals or the merits of religion versus atheism. I believe that the constitutional rights of a student were violated here and the courts need to step up and change the way these cases are handled to prevent religious persecution of any kind in a government funded venue. | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
On May 27 2011 14:12 travis wrote: around the world its severely underrated as apostasy will get you killed in some places but nobody ever died because they had to say a prayer in school, it's not like an allergy plus legality is overrated just ask TL what it thinks of recreational marijuana usage agreed entirely but I still think it's horribly important, and I think that if he was reporting someone in the school for marijuana usage he would be in the right and would not deserve to be bullied. | ||
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