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On May 11 2011 23:22 zalz wrote:Show nested quote +Lol so just because other people who call themselves Christians wrote this bill, it automatically makes every single Christian in the world responsible? Give me a break. Maybe I should redefine my religion to "Fascism" and start doing good things in the world to help Hitler's reputation I never said this. I never included all christians with the people in Uganda. He was trying to pretend that the people of Uganda were not christian. Big difference and a big lie. Show nested quote +So what? YOU get to decide with whom s/he gets to indentify? Why does s/he have to identify with anyone who declares themselves christian? Identify? Who ever said anything about that. He can identify with whomever he likes. The point is that the people in Uganda are christians whilst he was trying to remove the blame of christianity by pretending that they aren't "real" christians. I never said all christians enage in the type of behavour we see from Uganda-chistians. If you want to criticque me it will have to be about what i said, not what you wished i said.
Ok sure, I'll talk about how you were completely non-responsive to any of his analysis. You said that the Bible was contradictory so that the Ugandan Christians were real christians too. Then you pointed out he was ignoring parts of the bible, but he wasn't, He specifically said that he failed to follow parts of the Bible but god will judge him.
I'll conced you never said that all christians engage in Ugandan christian behavior. I'm saying that his intent was never to call them un-christian. His point was to say that all christians are not responsible for the Bill. I don't know how the conversation went, but he seems to be saying that the Christians who pushed for the bill are not ones with which he indentifies
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Dissapointed that humans still are fighting over this silly issue. Are we all not born free and have feelings? How is it wrong if someone is gay? As long as they do not bother you and they keep to their business (which for the most part they do) then what right do we have to take that away from them or judge? The world today lacks tolerance, and it is this intolerance and human ego that brings forth stuff like the Wars in Iraq & Afghanistan, and future conflicts.
Voted.
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But see, by placing the blame on "Christianity" you seem to be implying that all Christians are responsible. That's the problem we have with that.
Christianity is made up out of all the written rules and stories. Those are anti-gay. Some christians embrace that part, some don't. I do put the blame on christianity, but your conclusion that this means all christians are responsible is your own flawed reading.
Ok sure, I'll talk about how you were completely non-responsive to any of his analysis. You said that the Bible was contradictory so that the Ugandan Christians were real christians too. Then you pointed out he was ignoring parts of the bible, but he wasn't, He specifically said that he failed to follow parts of the Bible but god will judge him.
I'll conced you never said that all christians engage in Ugandan christian behavior. I'm saying that his intent was never to call them un-christian. His point was to say that all christians are not responsible for the Bill. I don't know how the conversation went, but he seems to be saying that the Christians who pushed for the bill are not ones with which he indentifies.
This just isn't true. This was said by JesusSaviour:
How is Christianity responsible for anti-gay bills??
Is this a realy question? No it isn't. It's how he began his post about trying to weasle christianity out from this mess whilst christianity is central to what is happening in Uganda.
He follows with this:
Gay people are also made in the image of God and are therefore loved by God and by Christians
With this sentence he created the conditions with wich he excludes the Uganda population.
Christians love homosexuals, those who do not love homosexuals are thus not christian. Christians are people that call themselves christians, that's all there is to it.
Ok sure, I'll talk about how you were completely non-responsive to any of his analysis.
You will have to point out who you are talking about. You seem to be fusing TechniQ.UK, JesusOurSavior and Uhh Negative into one person.
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On May 11 2011 23:58 BroOkLYnzSouLJa wrote:
Dissapointed that humans still are fighting over this silly issue. Are we all not born free and have feelings? How is it wrong if someone is gay?
Good point, so true, but there are way too many things like this, just uncountable..
On May 11 2011 23:58 BroOkLYnzSouLJa wrote:The world today lacks tolerance, and it is this intolerance and human ego oil and weapon business in the US that brings forth stuff like the Wars in Iraq & Afghanistan, and future conflicts.
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On May 12 2011 00:05 zalz wrote:Show nested quote +But see, by placing the blame on "Christianity" you seem to be implying that all Christians are responsible. That's the problem we have with that. Christianity is made up out of all the written rules and stories. Those are anti-gay. Some christians embrace that part, some don't. I do put the blame on christianity, but your conclusion that this means all christians are responsible is your own flawed reading. Show nested quote +Ok sure, I'll talk about how you were completely non-responsive to any of his analysis. You said that the Bible was contradictory so that the Ugandan Christians were real christians too. Then you pointed out he was ignoring parts of the bible, but he wasn't, He specifically said that he failed to follow parts of the Bible but god will judge him.
I'll conced you never said that all christians engage in Ugandan christian behavior. I'm saying that his intent was never to call them un-christian. His point was to say that all christians are not responsible for the Bill. I don't know how the conversation went, but he seems to be saying that the Christians who pushed for the bill are not ones with which he indentifies. This just isn't true. This was said by JesusSaviour: Is this a realy question? No it isn't. It's how he began his post about trying to weasle christianity out from this mess whilst christianity is central to what is happening in Uganda. He follows with this: Show nested quote + Gay people are also made in the image of God and are therefore loved by God and by Christians With this sentence he created the conditions with wich he excludes the Uganda population. Christians love homosexuals, those who do not love homosexuals are thus not christian. Christians are people that call themselves christians, that's all there is to it. Show nested quote +Ok sure, I'll talk about how you were completely non-responsive to any of his analysis. You will have to point out who you are talking about. You seem to be fusing TechniQ.UK, JesusOurSavior and Uhh Negative into one person. I'm pretty sure a huge amount of this is communication. When you say Christianity you are saying that PART of Christianity is responsible for the bill. When he says Christianity is not responsible he is saying the MAJORITY of Christianity is not responsible for the bill.
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He's saying that because Christianity is against gays, that is the reason why they are proposing to kill them.
It's kind of like saying Islamic radicals who suicide them self represent Islam and it's Islam's fault for existing that they are that way.
I guess now if you have an idea, and someone vastly misinterprets it then acts upon it, it's your fault.
People are always going to misinterpret and manipulate things to try and justify what they do.
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On May 12 2011 00:26 Uhh Negative wrote:
He's saying that because Christianity is against gays, that is the reason why they are proposing to kill them.
It's kind of like saying Islamic radicals who suicide them self represent Islam and it's Islam's fault for existing that they are that way.
I guess now if you have an idea, and someone vastly misinterprets it then acts upon it, it's your fault.
People are always going to misinterpret and manipulate things to try and justify what they do.
It IS Islam's fault that Islamic "extremists" exist.
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On May 12 2011 00:53 jello_biafra wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2011 00:26 Uhh Negative wrote:
He's saying that because Christianity is against gays, that is the reason why they are proposing to kill them.
It's kind of like saying Islamic radicals who suicide them self represent Islam and it's Islam's fault for existing that they are that way.
I guess now if you have an idea, and someone vastly misinterprets it then acts upon it, it's your fault.
People are always going to misinterpret and manipulate things to try and justify what they do. It IS Islam's fault that Islamic "extremists" exist.
I disagree.
Maybe you can't share your ideas for fear that they will spawn something sinister?
Maybe I don't like bunnies but I don't think we should kill them and I call myself an "anti-bunnier" then someone comes along and is like, "Let's kill all the bunnies!". Is that my fault?
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On May 12 2011 00:53 jello_biafra wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2011 00:26 Uhh Negative wrote:
He's saying that because Christianity is against gays, that is the reason why they are proposing to kill them.
It's kind of like saying Islamic radicals who suicide them self represent Islam and it's Islam's fault for existing that they are that way.
I guess now if you have an idea, and someone vastly misinterprets it then acts upon it, it's your fault.
People are always going to misinterpret and manipulate things to try and justify what they do. It IS Islam's fault that Islamic "extremists" exist.
No.
It's not.
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On May 12 2011 00:53 jello_biafra wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2011 00:26 Uhh Negative wrote:
He's saying that because Christianity is against gays, that is the reason why they are proposing to kill them.
It's kind of like saying Islamic radicals who suicide them self represent Islam and it's Islam's fault for existing that they are that way.
I guess now if you have an idea, and someone vastly misinterprets it then acts upon it, it's your fault.
People are always going to misinterpret and manipulate things to try and justify what they do. It IS Islam's fault that Islamic "extremists" exist.
Who is this "Islam"? She must be spreading these radical lies! Or are you saying a nebulous religious concept is somehow responsible for the extremists it creates?
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On May 12 2011 01:03 Sight- wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2011 00:53 jello_biafra wrote:On May 12 2011 00:26 Uhh Negative wrote:
He's saying that because Christianity is against gays, that is the reason why they are proposing to kill them.
It's kind of like saying Islamic radicals who suicide them self represent Islam and it's Islam's fault for existing that they are that way.
I guess now if you have an idea, and someone vastly misinterprets it then acts upon it, it's your fault.
People are always going to misinterpret and manipulate things to try and justify what they do. It IS Islam's fault that Islamic "extremists" exist. Who is this "Islam"? She must be spreading these radical lies! Or are you saying a nebulous religious concept is somehow responsible for the extremists it creates?
I like my "anti-bunnier" example :p 
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On May 12 2011 00:54 Uhh Negative wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2011 00:53 jello_biafra wrote:On May 12 2011 00:26 Uhh Negative wrote:
He's saying that because Christianity is against gays, that is the reason why they are proposing to kill them.
It's kind of like saying Islamic radicals who suicide them self represent Islam and it's Islam's fault for existing that they are that way.
I guess now if you have an idea, and someone vastly misinterprets it then acts upon it, it's your fault.
People are always going to misinterpret and manipulate things to try and justify what they do. It IS Islam's fault that Islamic "extremists" exist. I disagree. Maybe you can't share your ideas for fear that they will spawn something sinister? Maybe I don't like bunnies but I don't think we should kill them and I call myself an "anti-bunnier" then someone comes along and is like, "Let's kill all the bunnies!". Is that my fault?
On May 12 2011 00:55 Craton wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2011 00:53 jello_biafra wrote:On May 12 2011 00:26 Uhh Negative wrote:
He's saying that because Christianity is against gays, that is the reason why they are proposing to kill them.
It's kind of like saying Islamic radicals who suicide them self represent Islam and it's Islam's fault for existing that they are that way.
I guess now if you have an idea, and someone vastly misinterprets it then acts upon it, it's your fault.
People are always going to misinterpret and manipulate things to try and justify what they do. It IS Islam's fault that Islamic "extremists" exist. No. It's not.
The sheer existence of Islam makes the world safe for the extremists, the Qu'ran is open for interpretation and there's no demonstrable standard for Islam that all Muslims should follow. Read The God Delusion.
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Wow, this has turned into a conversation I want to stay the hell away from o.O Guess I'll just add that I personally find it horrifying that a bill like this could even be considered. Voted, and going to encourage others to vote too.
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I'm pretty sure a huge amount of this is communication. When you say Christianity you are saying that PART of Christianity is responsible for the bill. When he says Christianity is not responsible he is saying the MAJORITY of Christianity is not responsible for the bill.
Christianity is the story, the doctrine, the relics, the churches. It is everything about christianity that still exists when all humans are magically zapped away into the sky for rapture. Christians are the people.
Christianity is anti-gay, christians are all across the spectrum. Some reject those passages, some embrace them, some try to twist them. They are still there regardless of how they are read.
He's saying that because Christianity is against gays, that is the reason why they are proposing to kill them.
It's kind of like saying Islamic radicals who suicide them self represent Islam and it's Islam's fault for existing that they are that way.
I guess now if you have an idea, and someone vastly misinterprets it then acts upon it, it's your fault.
People are always going to misinterpret and manipulate things to try and justify what they do.
It almost feels silly to keep explaining when you obviously refuse to understand. I explained it very clearly so you either failed to understand what i wrote or you purposefully ignored it and continued on with this bizare post. I am torn at this point. I either have to call you stupid for not understanding a very clear post or dishonest for understanding it but refusing to adress my actuall point rather then your fantasy version of what i said.
Finally there is a bit of peculiar stuff about Islam. You seem to believe that in a world without Islam there would still be Islamic terrorists. This is both laughable and horribly off-topic. You are derailing this topic enough by intentionally miss-reading posts, don't add going off-topic to that list.
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Is this a realy question? No it isn't. It's how he began his post about trying to weasle christianity out from this mess whilst christianity is central to what is happening in Uganda.
christianity is responsible for this anti-gay bill. You need to understand that just because you are religious doesn't mean you get to re-write reality to fit your religion. The people of Uganda are deeply christian and a large portion (84%) of the population is christian. This homophobia is the result of christian doctrine.
You make these assertions failing to understand a simple thing, religion changes over time. You wont find people being burned on the stake for their beliefs, not because the bible has drastically changed but because people understood that one cannot interpret christian beliefs in such a manner.
You can quote Levictus or the insane evangilists that are believed to be responsible for this mess but you'll find that a majority of christians have nothing against homosexuals.The christians in Uganda are doing something that is unacceptable by christian standards (you asked for a statement from the Vatican = http://www.rnw.nl/english/article/vatican-speaks-out-against-uganda-anti-gay-laws ). So blaming the existence of christianinity is like blaming guns for the existence crime.
Please stop arguing about this,as it is more important to concentrate on solving of this mess than on directing the blame on parties that have stated this is not what they believe in.
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On May 12 2011 01:10 jello_biafra wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2011 00:54 Uhh Negative wrote:On May 12 2011 00:53 jello_biafra wrote:On May 12 2011 00:26 Uhh Negative wrote:
He's saying that because Christianity is against gays, that is the reason why they are proposing to kill them.
It's kind of like saying Islamic radicals who suicide them self represent Islam and it's Islam's fault for existing that they are that way.
I guess now if you have an idea, and someone vastly misinterprets it then acts upon it, it's your fault.
People are always going to misinterpret and manipulate things to try and justify what they do. It IS Islam's fault that Islamic "extremists" exist. I disagree. Maybe you can't share your ideas for fear that they will spawn something sinister? Maybe I don't like bunnies but I don't think we should kill them and I call myself an "anti-bunnier" then someone comes along and is like, "Let's kill all the bunnies!". Is that my fault? Show nested quote +On May 12 2011 00:55 Craton wrote:On May 12 2011 00:53 jello_biafra wrote:On May 12 2011 00:26 Uhh Negative wrote:
He's saying that because Christianity is against gays, that is the reason why they are proposing to kill them.
It's kind of like saying Islamic radicals who suicide them self represent Islam and it's Islam's fault for existing that they are that way.
I guess now if you have an idea, and someone vastly misinterprets it then acts upon it, it's your fault.
People are always going to misinterpret and manipulate things to try and justify what they do. It IS Islam's fault that Islamic "extremists" exist. No. It's not. The sheer existence of Islam makes the world safe for the extremists, the Qu'ran is open for interpretation and there's no demonstrable standard for Islam that all Muslims should follow. Read The God Delusion.
Last time I checked, the Christian Bible is open to interpretation as well. I point to the Westboro Baptist Church. They call themselves Baptists, just as these extremists call themselves Muslim. The American Baptist Association has long ago stated that WBC is not a true Baptist church. The educated Islam community would say the same thing about these extremists. They are not practicing what the Islamic community would call true Islam, and give Islam a bad name.
You could make the same argument for the Crusades btw...
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On May 12 2011 02:29 ILIVEFORAIUR wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2011 01:10 jello_biafra wrote:On May 12 2011 00:54 Uhh Negative wrote:On May 12 2011 00:53 jello_biafra wrote:On May 12 2011 00:26 Uhh Negative wrote:
He's saying that because Christianity is against gays, that is the reason why they are proposing to kill them.
It's kind of like saying Islamic radicals who suicide them self represent Islam and it's Islam's fault for existing that they are that way.
I guess now if you have an idea, and someone vastly misinterprets it then acts upon it, it's your fault.
People are always going to misinterpret and manipulate things to try and justify what they do. It IS Islam's fault that Islamic "extremists" exist. I disagree. Maybe you can't share your ideas for fear that they will spawn something sinister? Maybe I don't like bunnies but I don't think we should kill them and I call myself an "anti-bunnier" then someone comes along and is like, "Let's kill all the bunnies!". Is that my fault? On May 12 2011 00:55 Craton wrote:On May 12 2011 00:53 jello_biafra wrote:On May 12 2011 00:26 Uhh Negative wrote:
He's saying that because Christianity is against gays, that is the reason why they are proposing to kill them.
It's kind of like saying Islamic radicals who suicide them self represent Islam and it's Islam's fault for existing that they are that way.
I guess now if you have an idea, and someone vastly misinterprets it then acts upon it, it's your fault.
People are always going to misinterpret and manipulate things to try and justify what they do. It IS Islam's fault that Islamic "extremists" exist. No. It's not. The sheer existence of Islam makes the world safe for the extremists, the Qu'ran is open for interpretation and there's no demonstrable standard for Islam that all Muslims should follow. Read The God Delusion. Last time I checked, the Christian Bible is open to interpretation as well. I point to the Westboro Baptist Church. They call themselves Baptists, just as these extremists call themselves Muslim. The American Baptist Association has long ago stated that WBC is not a true Baptist church. The educated Islam community would say the same thing about these extremists. They are not practicing what the Islamic community would call true Islam, and give Islam a bad name. You could make the same argument for the Crusades btw...
These extremists wouldn't be there at all without the religion itself.
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On May 12 2011 02:31 jello_biafra wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2011 02:29 ILIVEFORAIUR wrote:On May 12 2011 01:10 jello_biafra wrote:On May 12 2011 00:54 Uhh Negative wrote:On May 12 2011 00:53 jello_biafra wrote:On May 12 2011 00:26 Uhh Negative wrote:
He's saying that because Christianity is against gays, that is the reason why they are proposing to kill them.
It's kind of like saying Islamic radicals who suicide them self represent Islam and it's Islam's fault for existing that they are that way.
I guess now if you have an idea, and someone vastly misinterprets it then acts upon it, it's your fault.
People are always going to misinterpret and manipulate things to try and justify what they do. It IS Islam's fault that Islamic "extremists" exist. I disagree. Maybe you can't share your ideas for fear that they will spawn something sinister? Maybe I don't like bunnies but I don't think we should kill them and I call myself an "anti-bunnier" then someone comes along and is like, "Let's kill all the bunnies!". Is that my fault? On May 12 2011 00:55 Craton wrote:On May 12 2011 00:53 jello_biafra wrote:On May 12 2011 00:26 Uhh Negative wrote:
He's saying that because Christianity is against gays, that is the reason why they are proposing to kill them.
It's kind of like saying Islamic radicals who suicide them self represent Islam and it's Islam's fault for existing that they are that way.
I guess now if you have an idea, and someone vastly misinterprets it then acts upon it, it's your fault.
People are always going to misinterpret and manipulate things to try and justify what they do. It IS Islam's fault that Islamic "extremists" exist. No. It's not. The sheer existence of Islam makes the world safe for the extremists, the Qu'ran is open for interpretation and there's no demonstrable standard for Islam that all Muslims should follow. Read The God Delusion. Last time I checked, the Christian Bible is open to interpretation as well. I point to the Westboro Baptist Church. They call themselves Baptists, just as these extremists call themselves Muslim. The American Baptist Association has long ago stated that WBC is not a true Baptist church. The educated Islam community would say the same thing about these extremists. They are not practicing what the Islamic community would call true Islam, and give Islam a bad name. You could make the same argument for the Crusades btw... These extremists wouldn't be there at all without the religion itself.
The crusades wouldn't have happened without the existence of Christianity. Which, might I add, caused more deaths then the current extremists. So should we have said that Chrisianity should not have existed? No. Christianity does a lot of good for the community. Islam is the world's fastest growing religion. In countries where it is popular, it fills the same role as Christianity does in the United States and other countries in which Christianity is the majority religion.
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EPT
