EPTFeds cracking down on online poker..? - Page 6
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Pokerstars is an online poker site. Pokerstrategy is an educational training site. They are not the same site. The TSL3 is sponsored by pokerstrategy.com. | ||
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ondik
Czech Republic2908 Posts
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Soap
Brazil1546 Posts
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Impervious
Canada4212 Posts
I feel sorry for people who are gonna lose more though..... There could have at least been some warning so that individual people weren't going to get fucked over by this..... | ||
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JFO
184 Posts
still this is bullshit though, so many people and such a industry can fall down here, entire familys, unemploment etc. | ||
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EtherealDeath
United States8366 Posts
Conducting, financing, managing, supervising, directing, or owning all or part of an illegal gambling business is a federal crime (18 U.S.C 1955) For persons engaged in the business of betting or wagering, it is also a federal crime to knowingly accept, in connection with the participation of another person in unlawful internet gambling, credit, electronic fund transfers, or checks (31 U.S.C. 5363 & 5366) Might this suggest that the FBI is currently viewing PS, FT, and absolutepoker as an illegal gambling business (this itself being a dramatic conclusion)? If so, then it would follow from the above that everyone using the site is committing a federal crime, and since I doubt they would bother to try everyone, that would suggest all the money or some large portion would just be kept by the gov. Not sure of the law on how much money could be taken, but someone mentioned that for the PS owners, they could face fines of up to twice the money laundered. If there is similar logic applied for PS/other poke site users, then they could just take all the money and call it a day could they not? Would be really shitty for everyday users, especially since as far as I have heard from everyone, the US gov was not clear on the illegality of this, and everyone I know irl seems to think that online poker is legal. | ||
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AKspartan
United States126 Posts
On April 16 2011 04:27 Modafinil wrote: I'm not ignorant of the subject. I'm an attorney in the US and a former online poker player. The bolded part is particularly laughable. Yes, I understand, you spent a lot of time playing poker. How much effort you put into it has no bearing on its legality or the legality of what the poker sites did with the money they took in - including the money of yours they were holding. The sites aren't criminal enterprises? You can go argue with the federal indictment. To quote the press release, whether or not poker is legal where the companies were based, what they were doing with the money was illegal. Some of that involved activity in the US, and with US financial institutions. Thus, the US has jurisdiction. The true criminals here are the legislators who snuck UIGEA into a completely unrelated bill and shuffled it through congress, and attorneys like you who will gladly try your hardest to put these nonviolent offenders in jail for a significant portion of their lives. And for what end? | ||
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Slithe
United States985 Posts
On April 16 2011 04:26 Manit0u wrote: Oh, sorry, not really in the mood for reading legal stuff in .pdf format right now  See now how bad your argument sounds? His argument doesn't sound bad at all. It's true that the drug war is an enormous money sink that does not yield benefits. Drug legalization would in all likelihood significantly reduce our drug problem in many ways, including reduced crime, extra revenue, and greater consumer safety. The government should not be so heavy handed in what they let a person do, so long as it does not harm anyone else. What a person does with their money and their body is up to them. The USA allows lotteries, which is just large-scale distributed gambling. Stocks, housing investments, these are all legal forms of gambling. Why are they trying so hard to make poker illegal? | ||
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Zinnwaldite
Norway1567 Posts
i love it =) | ||
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Wohmfg
United Kingdom1292 Posts
On April 16 2011 04:35 Modafinil wrote: I don't know how many times I have to explain this. The poker sites were allegedly engaged in fraud and money laundering. Whether or not you were legally depositing there, they were allegedly doing illegal things with your money. As a result, the assets of the companies are being seized - including your money. I understand that. It says that in the OP. The UIGEA is a law in a country that I am not a citizen of. I gave my money to an American company with the faith that they were operating legally. As far as I am aware, there was nothing to indicate to me that they were operating illegally. If you could point me to some evidence that would show that I was stupid for doing this then please go ahead. That is, evidence that is readily available to anyone and that highlights the possibility of the scenario the poker sites are facing now. Your point about the cheating in poker has no relevance on this subject at all. | ||
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EtherealDeath
United States8366 Posts
On April 16 2011 04:37 Soap wrote: It is reasonable to assume the most of the money is held outside of the US and therefore not under their jurisdiction. There's a reason most poker sites are private companies and located at fiscal paradises. I assume the gov could fine PS/etc for some huge amount that would require taking the money out of their havens? I guess those people better not be in the US anywhere in the near future, and hope that their countries don't extradite. | ||
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guN-viCe
United States687 Posts
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JFO
184 Posts
So is the money on the tables considered part of the "laundered money" | ||
Kipsate
Netherlands45349 Posts
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Modafinil
United States35 Posts
On April 16 2011 04:41 AKspartan wrote: The true criminals here are the legislators who snuck UIGEA into a completely unrelated bill and shuffled it through congress, and attorneys like you who will gladly try your hardest to put these nonviolent offenders in jail for a significant portion of their lives. And for what end? "Attorneys like [me]"? The vast majority of attorneys don't even work in criminal law (including me), and of those that do, far more work in defense than prosecution. There's plenty of blame to lay at the feet of the legal profession, but prosecuting poker players isn't one of them. Personally, I blame the Christians. | ||
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Gryffes
United Kingdom763 Posts
Thankfully most of my roll is on other sites. | ||
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ROOTFayth
Canada3351 Posts
On April 16 2011 04:41 Sebzou wrote: haha,, this is so funny ^_^ i love it =) how is it funny...? | ||
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TURKISHRAMBO
Canada148 Posts
On April 16 2011 04:41 Wohmfg wrote: I understand that. It says that in the OP. The UIGEA is a law in a country that I am not a citizen of. I gave my money to an American company with the faith that they were operating legally. As far as I am aware, there was nothing to indicate to me that they were operating illegally. If you could point me to some evidence that would show that I was stupid for doing this then please go ahead. That is, evidence that is readily available to anyone and that highlights the possibility of the scenario the poker sites are facing now. Your point about the cheating in poker has no relevance on this subject at all. i dont know law or anything but i think exactly this. Not giving the money back to their rightful owners would be complete bullshit and IMO immoral. Lots of people have alot of money on these sites. | ||
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zyzski
United States698 Posts
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
This is our government. They do not care about their citizens. They don't give a shit at all about the people making a livelihood from this. | ||
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Impervious
Canada4212 Posts
On April 16 2011 04:46 zyzski wrote: people are going to be killing themselves because of this stuff, wowowowow Seriously. You're definitely not far from the truth..... A lot of people may lose a lot of money by doing things that are completely legal in their own countries..... Entire life savings could be gone in a fucking instant. | ||
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