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Pokerstars is an online poker site. Pokerstrategy is an educational training site. They are not the same site. The TSL3 is sponsored by pokerstrategy.com. |
On April 16 2011 06:17 Soap wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2011 06:14 Slithe wrote:My question is why doesn't the government come to an agreement with the poker sites for regulation. That way they can get their "piece of the pie", and everybody will be happy. Instead, they waste money to chase down the poker sites, while the sites waste money to continue to evade them. Sounds like a lose/lose to me.
For the same reason Blizzard does not come to an agreement about BW rights: they'd rather get rid of it and have people doing other stuff. After all gambling is a sin amirite?
Your sounding pretty ignorant, from my understand Blizzard has been spending many years discussing about thier IP rights on a game they created. As for the the topic i don't really know specifics, but i think it's better to send a strong statement that you don't fuck with us rather then implying oh well if you shit on our deck we'll discuss how we both can clean it up.
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This is for real?? I feel terrible for all the team liquid guys who play on there a lot..
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Theres no way to know if withdrawals for non us players will be ok yet - the instant withdrawals are neteller creditbacks and work in a different fashion and are handled automatically.
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Hope everyone wasn't sitting on fat bank rolls 
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On April 16 2011 06:02 thekoven wrote:
I just re-installed pokerstars to see if I could get my money out and IT WORKED. I logged into my account and cashier and got a check sent to my home just in case. I hope this works...
This info should be placed on top of every page. Hope people get their money back.
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On April 16 2011 05:33 Ympulse wrote:
I loled at how many people actually think gambling is a sustainable income source.
Also, this isn't the first time online gambling has been shut down due to money laundering. You'd think people would learn from their history.
I loled at how stupid this comment was.
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I have about 200$ on PS, damn that would cover 2 Years GSL Permium
lol is that how you translate how much $200 is for the SC community 
For the people hateing on the goverment the people that run these site aren't stupid they know the laws and they should also know if the US goverment thinks your trying to defraud them in anyway they'll come down on them like a ton of bricks
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I despise my country sometimes -___-
On April 16 2011 05:02 Pervect wrote:
USA once again defending the world from grave injustices. Another great success for the greatest nation in history. USA USA USA
What a fucking joke
Hahaha :D
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On April 16 2011 06:32 TrANCE, wrote:lol is that how you translate how much $200 is for the SC community For the people hateing on the goverment the people that run these site aren't stupid they know the laws and they should also know if the US goverment thinks your trying to defraud them in anyway they'll come down on them like a ton of bricks
People don't hate the government for enforcing the laws, they hate them for having shit laws to begin with.
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The Government woulda just made it legal to begin with they would of got their taxes. Instead all the major sites move to foreign banks.
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On April 16 2011 05:52 Modafinil wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2011 05:36 SonuvBob wrote:I guess the main question is whether the US can seize (seems very unlikely) or tie up money in non-US accounts. If not, then non-US players probably don't have much to worry about. I imagine the only money the sites have in US accounts is for their weird payment processing setup. I think US players are only completely screwed if the sites don't have enough left over after the $3 billion lawsuit. I can't find much info on that, but it's probably split between the 4 sites, and they're all rich as fuck, so I don't think that's a problem. So your money will likely still be there, but actually getting it may be next to impossible (and you might not even be able to play with it either) But that's just short term. Long term, no more American players I guess? Can't find any useful info on 2p2 since the site's getting hammered right now. =/ Currently Active Users: 12243 (4076 members and 8167 guests)
View Who's Online
Most users ever online was 12,244, Today at 04:20 PM. If you mean "non-US accounts" as in "non-US poker accounts", then yeah, that money is just as tied up as if its drug money. It's the subject of a civil asset forfeiture proceeding, which is LITERALLY how the FBI seizes drug money and drug dealer cars. It is the same proceeding. The money is not going anywhere; they don't care who deposited it. In a few years, you could, in theory get your money back if you're an international player. But it's really unlikely there will be any money left then, after fines, assets forfeited as the result of the actual criminal acts, legal fees, etc. I would just expect it to be a full loss.
Nope, I mean non-US bank accounts. The sites keep the vast majority of the money offshore.
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You've GOT to be kidding...
I really hope that through mass pressure (if there is any) and fair treatment (hah .....) non-US players dont get hit too hard. This could really hurt me...
Not wanting to sound too harsh toward US players, you have my every sympathy, but everyone has to be selfish to some degree.
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disgusting.
daniel tzvetkoff or w.e is a dead man (if businessinsider is accurate)
i feel for every poker player, particularly those that were clearly not breaking any laws whatsoever (i.e. outside u.s.)
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On April 16 2011 06:36 SonuvBob wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2011 05:52 Modafinil wrote:On April 16 2011 05:36 SonuvBob wrote:I guess the main question is whether the US can seize (seems very unlikely) or tie up money in non-US accounts. If not, then non-US players probably don't have much to worry about. I imagine the only money the sites have in US accounts is for their weird payment processing setup. I think US players are only completely screwed if the sites don't have enough left over after the $3 billion lawsuit. I can't find much info on that, but it's probably split between the 4 sites, and they're all rich as fuck, so I don't think that's a problem. So your money will likely still be there, but actually getting it may be next to impossible (and you might not even be able to play with it either) But that's just short term. Long term, no more American players I guess? Can't find any useful info on 2p2 since the site's getting hammered right now. =/ Currently Active Users: 12243 (4076 members and 8167 guests)
View Who's Online
Most users ever online was 12,244, Today at 04:20 PM. If you mean "non-US accounts" as in "non-US poker accounts", then yeah, that money is just as tied up as if its drug money. It's the subject of a civil asset forfeiture proceeding, which is LITERALLY how the FBI seizes drug money and drug dealer cars. It is the same proceeding. The money is not going anywhere; they don't care who deposited it. In a few years, you could, in theory get your money back if you're an international player. But it's really unlikely there will be any money left then, after fines, assets forfeited as the result of the actual criminal acts, legal fees, etc. I would just expect it to be a full loss. Nope, I mean non-US bank accounts. The sites keep the vast majority of the money offshore.
But "your" money will probably lose on it's value, you wont get 100c on a $ probably. As Tom Dwan twitted http://twitter.com/tom_dwan. It's not like you can sue them if you are American because you expose yourself to criminal lawsuit I guess.
I myself in some kind of miracle got through without much hammering to withdrawal process, only question is will it complete, they have 48h to process the request. Poker sites are like banks, their cash is 95% virtual, just numbers in computer.
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The laws are not even shit to begin with. The only way to enforce regulation is before or when money goes to tax havens, and in an absolute and ultimate way, regulation is welcome. But instead of striking a compromise the owners preferred to earn the full profits till they were brought down, and they just were.
Doesn't help that there are conservative officials that would prefer gambling to be evicted from the world, but the real difficulty is the same as always, the people who are in good faith and just want to play some games are silent.
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+ Show Spoiler +20:30 GMT durrrr comments
Tom Dwan writes on Twitter: "I long ago realized that laws replaced common sense in every day government, however I still thought n hoped the regulation of billion dollar industries was usually done in a logical fashion."
20:34 GMT PokerStars Traffic declining
Kevmath from the US, editor at Bluff Magazine and 2+2 moderator reports: "Last 10 minutes or so, Stars has dropped 15k players".
20:36 GMT PokerStars doesn't allow any US players
ESPN reports via Twitter that several US players are facing problems while connecting to PokerStars.
20:44 GMT Onyx Cup?
The first Full Tilt Poker Onyx Cup is scheduled to take place in May in Las Vegas. Discussions are heating up on Twitter whether or not this will still go ahead.
20:50 GMT 11 managers charged
Wall Street Journal reports that a total of 11 managers from several poker rooms has been charged.
20:53 GMT Over 75 accounts frozen
The Wall Street Journal further reports that over 75 bank accounts of companies linked to poker rooms have been frozen.
20:56 GMT Poker rooms are facing up to 3 billion USD in fines
According to Forbes, poker rooms are facing fines up about 3 billion US dollar.
21:03 GMT The names of the 11 managers charged
The names of the managers charged can be found in the charging document here: Isai Scheinberg, Raymond Bitar, Scott Tom, Brent Beckley, Nelson Burtnick, Paul Tate, Ryan Lang, Bradley Franzen, Ira Rubin, Chad Elie und John Campos.
21:08 GMT nanonoko comments
Online legend and PokerStars Pro nanonoko said on Twitter: "hmm...might need to consider buying from the value menu again at McDonalds if things don't work so well".
21:10 GMT Poker rooms used "fraudulent methods"
The charging document states "...used fraudulent methods to avoid restrictions and to receive billions of dollars from United States residents who gambled."
21:13 GMT Charges of money laundering
The document also states that poker rooms "...also engaged in massive money laundering and bank fraud. Foreign firms that choose to operate in the United States are not free to flout the laws they don’t like simply because they can’t bear to be parted from their profits."
21:17 GMT PokerStars, FTP, UB and AP scammed customers according to FBI
Janice K. Fedarcyk of the FBI said: "These defendants, knowing full well that their business with U.S. customers and U.S. banks was illegal, tried to stack the deck."
21:19 GMT Allegedly, poker rooms bribed and lied to banks
Fedarcyk: "They lied to banks about the true nature of their business. Then, some of the defendants found banks willing to flout the law for a fee. The defendants bet the house that they could continue their scheme, and they lost."
Here is some extra information. I'm not sure if it has been posted, and i don't have time right now to look through the thread.
This is from pokerstrategy.com
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"ESPN_Poker
1. According to @GamblingComp, all the indicted sites, around the world, will be down within 48 hours. #gg less than a minute ago via web"
Taken from 2+2.
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On April 16 2011 06:43 Jochan wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2011 06:36 SonuvBob wrote:On April 16 2011 05:52 Modafinil wrote:On April 16 2011 05:36 SonuvBob wrote:I guess the main question is whether the US can seize (seems very unlikely) or tie up money in non-US accounts. If not, then non-US players probably don't have much to worry about. I imagine the only money the sites have in US accounts is for their weird payment processing setup. I think US players are only completely screwed if the sites don't have enough left over after the $3 billion lawsuit. I can't find much info on that, but it's probably split between the 4 sites, and they're all rich as fuck, so I don't think that's a problem. So your money will likely still be there, but actually getting it may be next to impossible (and you might not even be able to play with it either) But that's just short term. Long term, no more American players I guess? Can't find any useful info on 2p2 since the site's getting hammered right now. =/ Currently Active Users: 12243 (4076 members and 8167 guests)
View Who's Online
Most users ever online was 12,244, Today at 04:20 PM. If you mean "non-US accounts" as in "non-US poker accounts", then yeah, that money is just as tied up as if its drug money. It's the subject of a civil asset forfeiture proceeding, which is LITERALLY how the FBI seizes drug money and drug dealer cars. It is the same proceeding. The money is not going anywhere; they don't care who deposited it. In a few years, you could, in theory get your money back if you're an international player. But it's really unlikely there will be any money left then, after fines, assets forfeited as the result of the actual criminal acts, legal fees, etc. I would just expect it to be a full loss. Nope, I mean non-US bank accounts. The sites keep the vast majority of the money offshore. But "your" money will probably lose on it's value, you wont get 100c on a $ probably. As Tom Dwan twitted http://twitter.com/tom_dwan. It's not like you can sue them if you are American because you expose yourself to criminal lawsuit I guess. I myself in some kind of miracle got through without much hammering to withdrawal process, only question is will it complete, they have 48h to process the request. Poker sites are like banks, their cash is 95% virtual, just numbers in computer.
I think he means as a conversion rate as of right now. Like you'd transfer $100 to someone on PS for $93 or more on Paypal or whatever. For FTP/Stars, the rate being lower than 100% (or whatever the standard is) is just because the money will likely be held up for a few months, whereas with the other sites there's a real risk of it going poof.
He actually sounds pretty optimistic.
Tom_Dwan Tom Dwan
"@HRRNighthawk: That sounds like you don't think the sites are ever coming back for the US customers?" 85-90% they will. 99.93% will pay
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On April 16 2011 06:36 SonuvBob wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2011 05:52 Modafinil wrote:On April 16 2011 05:36 SonuvBob wrote:I guess the main question is whether the US can seize (seems very unlikely) or tie up money in non-US accounts. If not, then non-US players probably don't have much to worry about. I imagine the only money the sites have in US accounts is for their weird payment processing setup. I think US players are only completely screwed if the sites don't have enough left over after the $3 billion lawsuit. I can't find much info on that, but it's probably split between the 4 sites, and they're all rich as fuck, so I don't think that's a problem. So your money will likely still be there, but actually getting it may be next to impossible (and you might not even be able to play with it either) But that's just short term. Long term, no more American players I guess? Can't find any useful info on 2p2 since the site's getting hammered right now. =/ Currently Active Users: 12243 (4076 members and 8167 guests)
View Who's Online
Most users ever online was 12,244, Today at 04:20 PM. If you mean "non-US accounts" as in "non-US poker accounts", then yeah, that money is just as tied up as if its drug money. It's the subject of a civil asset forfeiture proceeding, which is LITERALLY how the FBI seizes drug money and drug dealer cars. It is the same proceeding. The money is not going anywhere; they don't care who deposited it. In a few years, you could, in theory get your money back if you're an international player. But it's really unlikely there will be any money left then, after fines, assets forfeited as the result of the actual criminal acts, legal fees, etc. I would just expect it to be a full loss. Nope, I mean non-US bank accounts. The sites keep the vast majority of the money offshore.
Oh well, in that case, the answer is still "definitely, they can get it". The US seizes/freezes international bank accounts all the time, and have been doing it for years. The bank cooperates or risks losing any assets it has in the US or that touch the US in any way (now or in the future). Or the US government gets your own government to do the seizure itself. Pretty much every country in the developed world (and even plenty that aren't developed, like, say, Panama) is party to legal cooperation treaties, and almost every country will assist in the arrest or deportation of the target of a valid arrest warrant, or in the seizure of assets so requested, or even in the enforcement of a judgment from a foreign court (couple exceptions to the last one, but still).
The exceptions to this are total pariah countries like North Korea and Cuba, and, until recently, Switzerland. But even Switzerland stopped having secret bank accounts and decided to cooperate with the US in its UBS tax fraud investigation.
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On April 16 2011 06:36 DrunkeN. wrote:
The Government woulda just made it legal to begin with they would of got their taxes. Instead all the major sites move to foreign banks.
I would venture a guess that non-online gambling lobby and some Christian groups are pretty strong players on the political scene (the first one more important than the second in this case I would guess) and that is the reason for the laws.
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EPT
