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Falling
Canada11372 Posts
Once everyone else recovered, we gutted our programs and pulled back. We like to think we're peacekeepers, but I think we have 60 troops in the UN (2008 numbers). But military (and healthcare) are great big black holes. You can always throw more money into it. And really, barring another world war, as long as the US continues to impoverish itself with military spending, we can cut military and can continue spending on healthcare. | ||
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Phantom
Canada2151 Posts
On April 13 2011 09:54 Kerpz wrote: My first post, and its a rant. Watching Canadian politics is like watching a soap opera in the middle of the day. A soap opera made by a local, community funded television station in a grocery store parking lot. You know, "Good for you, and hurray for local talent but this is still a pile of dog shit" As a Canadian I am embarrassed that out of four leaders on stage only two can speak intelligently and only one has anything to say. Layton - I liked his stab at the electoral process, I find most of his banter basically intended (as usual) to 'stir the pot' and to drive the discussion off course. I wonder why he keeps doing the same old things when we all see right through his bullshit. As if "22 minutes" wasn't embarrassing enough we have to watch this guy flap his gums, hoping that no one outside our country is lame enough to tune in and see this mess. Duceppe - reminds me of an overweight sweaty aunt, living in a ransacked trailer bitching about how her fifth aborted fetus should be counted as a dependant on her unemployment cheque. I won't even dignify that slug with any elaboration. Luckily, this aunt only exists in my private world, where I run to for comfort when I am bombarded by inane bullshit. Harper speaks intelligently, and so far isn't really unable to articulate anything above the din of the three idiots beside him. I like the fact that he is calm, respectful, and doesn't speak to the Canadian people like we are fucking children. Ignatieff is a fucking stooge. 'nuff said. Here is the kicker. I am (was) a liberal. I voted for that dummy Chretien and the rather eloquent Mr. Paul Martin. When he fell from grace a almost punched my own dick off. Bam! Recession!! We are watching the pinched tip of the economic log slide down the rabbit hole. Enter Harper ("hurr-perr") no bullshit, swingin' dicks, making reasonable decisions. I know pat my (thankfully) unpunched dick every night before bedtime. Green Party (not in attendance, apparently too 'coo for schoo', must have been a Collective Soul concert somewhere) - Corporate tax cuts are not evil when you understand how the economy works above a 3rd grade level. The Kyoto accord is a dream we should strive for, but not jump to overnight. For fuck's sake China is still using lead paint. If we stick our dicks in the ground and fuck mud in the hopes of creating a cleaner planet it will only send more jobs, resources etc. to countries who simply don't give a fuck. Doesn't matter how you vote, only that you do. Keep it real fellow Canadians, and let's at least get a majority gov't in and avoid this embarrassment for at least another 4 years. EDIT: re-fixing typos You haven't added one single point to the discussion with your post, it's pure bullshit. Rather than actually dissecting the arguments and points that each leader raised you've decided to build caricatures of the leaders in the debate. You're not funny and you're not well informed, so stop trying so hard. The Green Party btw, were not in attendance because they didn't hold a damn seat in the Parliament. I suggest you actually re-watch the debate and comment tastefully or just not reply at all. And when you actually do address any policy issues, the only party you even talk about is the Green Party which wasn't even there. You have an inkling of the right idea in your very last statement, that our current system is somewhat of an embarrassment, but it's not because we've had to face a minority government for the past five years. And a majority government by the Conservatives is certainly not the answer. The embarrassment is this archaic electoral government which does not give proportional representation. It is one of the few points that I thought Jack Layton was very wise to bring up during the debate. I think he also made great points in immigration addressing the issues of temporary workers in Canada as well and helping families immigrate to Canada. Also, going back to the debate, I couldn't understand why Harper kept saying that the Conservatives were in power for five years because they had done something to merit those five years. they suspended government twice to stay in power, that's hardly them gaining any merit to stay in power. | ||
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Taku
Canada2036 Posts
On April 13 2011 10:22 Phantom wrote: You haven't added one single point to the discussion with your post, it's pure bullshit. Rather than actually dissecting the arguments and points that each leader raised you've decided to build caricatures of the leaders in the debate. You're not funny and you're not well informed, so stop trying so hard. The Green Party btw, were not in attendance because they didn't hold a damn seat in the Parliament. I suggest you actually re-watch the debate and comment tastefully or just not reply at all. And when you actually do address any policy issues, the only party you even talk about is the Green Party which wasn't even there. You have an inkling of the right idea in your very last statement, that our current system is somewhat of an embarrassment, but it's not because we've had to face a minority government for the past five years. And a majority government by the Conservatives is certainly not the answer. The embarrassment is this archaic electoral government which does not give proportional representation. It is one of the few points that I thought Jack Layton was very wise to bring up during the debate. I think he also made great points in immigration addressing the issues of temporary workers in Canada as well and helping families immigrate to Canada. Also, going back to the debate, I couldn't understand why Harper kept saying that the Conservatives were in power for five years because they had done something to merit those five years. they suspended government twice to stay in power, that's hardly them gaining any merit to stay in power. Buddy, I think his post was addressing perception and how the leaders appeared in the debate, or how they came across as. For better of worse, it's a very big part on how politics work out, perception. Attacking his intelligence personally rather than contributing to the discussion, personal opinions or not, is worse imo. But yeah, Harper came across as stable and refined to me as he intended I'd say. Layton came out with his usual witty manner and keeps things interesting while pushing himself as an alternative. For Duceppe, this debate was meaningless so he basically got to troll everyone while keeping seperatist face. Ignatieff failed in his first chance at establishing legitimacy as the only viable alternative while Layton came out strong so I'd say Layton won this with Harper/Duceppe coming out unchanged. | ||
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Darpa
Canada4413 Posts
On April 13 2011 10:22 Phantom wrote: You haven't added one single point to the discussion with your post, it's pure bullshit. Rather than actually dissecting the arguments and points that each leader raised you've decided to build caricatures of the leaders in the debate. You're not funny and you're not well informed, so stop trying so hard. The Green Party btw, were not in attendance because they didn't hold a damn seat in the Parliament. I suggest you actually re-watch the debate and comment tastefully or just not reply at all. And when you actually do address any policy issues, the only party you even talk about is the Green Party which wasn't even there. You have an inkling of the right idea in your very last statement, that our current system is somewhat of an embarrassment, but it's not because we've had to face a minority government for the past five years. And a majority government by the Conservatives is certainly not the answer. The embarrassment is this archaic electoral government which does not give proportional representation. It is one of the few points that I thought Jack Layton was very wise to bring up during the debate. I think he also made great points in immigration addressing the issues of temporary workers in Canada as well and helping families immigrate to Canada. Also, going back to the debate, I couldn't understand why Harper kept saying that the Conservatives were in power for five years because they had done something to merit those five years. they suspended government twice to stay in power, that's hardly them gaining any merit to stay in power. If you are going to insult another poster you should probably contain your own bias. Im not commenting on the issue either way, because I think its pointless to do on a forum where you are clearly not going to be able to change someones opinion. insulting another person like that, and then claiming all of their points are crap and then clearly spouting biased crap of your own is just as bad as the post you are condeming. (especially when his post was clearly personal opinion on the performance of the debaters rather than the issues themselves), I for one would (as Im sure many would) be much more willing to listen to what you had to say if you didnt start your post with an insult and end it in clear obvious bias for your own opinions. I find it strange that so many people cant just disagree with someone, they have to try and insult them and then convert them with their own arguments. | ||
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Kamais_Ookin
Canada4218 Posts
Anyways, Harper needs to go already. | ||
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buickskylark
Canada664 Posts
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Zzoram
Canada7115 Posts
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ambientmf
Canada77 Posts
I'm basically looking at this election as "who's the lesser evil?". I will probably vote NDP and maybe get another Conservative minority since I don't think any of the parties are competent enough. | ||
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munchmunch
Canada789 Posts
On April 13 2011 09:54 Kerpz wrote: My first post, and its a rant. Watching Canadian politics is like watching a soap opera in the middle of the day. A soap opera made by a local, community funded television station in a grocery store parking lot. You know, "Good for you, and hurray for local talent but this is still a pile of dog shit" + Show Spoiler + As a Canadian I am embarrassed that out of four leaders on stage only two can speak intelligently and only one has anything to say. Layton - I liked his stab at the electoral process, I find most of his banter basically intended (as usual) to 'stir the pot' and to drive the discussion off course. I wonder why he keeps doing the same old things when we all see right through his bullshit. As if "22 minutes" wasn't embarrassing enough we have to watch this guy flap his gums, hoping that no one outside our country is lame enough to tune in and see this mess. Duceppe - reminds me of an overweight sweaty aunt, living in a ransacked trailer bitching about how her fifth aborted fetus should be counted as a dependant on her unemployment cheque. I won't even dignify that slug with any elaboration. Luckily, this aunt only exists in my private world, where I run to for comfort when I am bombarded by inane bullshit. Harper speaks intelligently, and so far isn't really unable to articulate anything above the din of the three idiots beside him. I like the fact that he is calm, respectful, and doesn't speak to the Canadian people like we are fucking children. Ignatieff is a fucking stooge. 'nuff said. Here is the kicker. I am (was) a liberal. I voted for that dummy Chretien and the rather eloquent Mr. Paul Martin. When he fell from grace a almost punched my own dick off. Bam! Recession!! We are watching the pinched tip of the economic log slide down the rabbit hole. Enter Harper ("hurr-perr") no bullshit, swingin' dicks, making reasonable decisions. I know pat my (thankfully) unpunched dick every night before bedtime. Green Party (not in attendance, apparently too 'coo for schoo', must have been a Collective Soul concert somewhere) - Corporate tax cuts are not evil when you understand how the economy works above a 3rd grade level. The Kyoto accord is a dream we should strive for, but not jump to overnight. For fuck's sake China is still using lead paint. If we stick our dicks in the ground and fuck mud in the hopes of creating a cleaner planet it will only send more jobs, resources etc. to countries who simply don't give a fuck. Doesn't matter how you vote, only that you do. Keep it real fellow Canadians, and let's at least get a majority gov't in and avoid this embarrassment for at least another 4 years. EDIT: re-fixing typos I'm ok with this rant, fairly well written and worth reading, even if I do disagree here and there. The only major problem is the misinformation about the Green Party; one of the major headlines of the past week-and-a-half has been the exclusion of the Green Party from the debate, when they were very eager to attend. | ||
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emperorchampion
Canada9496 Posts
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P3T3R
Canada87 Posts
On April 13 2011 10:39 buickskylark wrote: canadian politics is pretty boring. i feel the only way to make it interesting is if it included rona ambrose and a cigar. i know! the only thing i notice about canadian politics is that the leader of conservatives and liberals always change but ndp doesnt lawl | ||
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Falling
Canada11372 Posts
On April 13 2011 09:43 Treadmill wrote: Bullshit. That might be true nationally, but we don't VOTE nationally. We elect a local MP. And in around 100 ridings (a third of the total) it's the NDP that has the better chance to beat the conservatives. Ridings like the one I'm in, where voting for the Liberals is the way to waste your vote. Very true. In my riding, we haven't voted Liberal since the 70's. It's been NDP or Reform>>Alliance>> Conservative. Actually, after figuring out how all the electoral borders have changed over time, my riding has actually voted Liberal twice since BC joined confederation... the rest has been PC or NDP or independent. But I don't think I'll be voting NDP. I respect Layton, but I think he can promise a lot of things he can't deliver simply because they won't be in government. | ||
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Darpa
Canada4413 Posts
On April 13 2011 10:41 Zzoram wrote: Jack Layton won the debate. Too bad the Federal NDP has some commie reputation and can't win. If Jack Layton was leading the Liberals they'd win. Im not sure they'd win but Jack layton certainly has the charisma for the debate. Although I think alot of his policies might be to expensive and run a huge defecit. But thats really hard to say. They suffer because of provincial elections, particularily BC. the NDP government of the 90's almost bankrupted the province, so they have somewhat of a bad reputation there. That said, I will be voting conservative or NDP, i havent really decided. Partly because i think the liberal party has picked a succession of terrible party leaders. I would give the debate to Jack layton or Harper. Layton certainly more passionate, Harper more grounded and down to earth. Hard to pick which one though. | ||
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Phantom
Canada2151 Posts
On April 13 2011 10:32 Taku wrote: Buddy, I think his post was addressing perception and how the leaders appeared in the debate, or how they came across as. For better of worse, it's a very big part on how politics work out, perception. Attacking his intelligence personally rather than contributing to the discussion, personal opinions or not, is worse imo. But yeah, Harper came across as stable and refined to me as he intended I'd say. Layton came out with his usual witty manner and keeps things interesting while pushing himself as an alternative. For Duceppe, this debate was meaningless so he basically got to troll everyone while keeping seperatist face. Ignatieff failed in his first chance at establishing legitimacy as the only viable alternative while Layton came out strong so I'd say Layton won this with Harper/Duceppe coming out unchanged. I apologize to him for taking his comments so personally and attacking him in such a manner. I just find it disrespectful to the entire process. I didn't mean to sound bias, I am not going to vote NDP, nor do I disagree with some of Harper's policies. Harper is the only one who will not raise corporate taxes which I support. Honestly, re-reading my original post I did post harshly and I don't get into debates on forums this often. I disagree with you that his post was somehow just about perception. For example, he mentions Ignatieff and all he says is that he's a stooge. Nothing about how he did in the debate to either better or worsen his perception. Of course, it is an opinionated rant, but I guess it would be more correct to say that, while opinionated, I don't think its as funny or witty as he intended it to be. | ||
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GypsyBeast
Canada630 Posts
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salito
1647 Posts
As far as the debate went, I was most impressed by Layton. Not that it matters though, I'm indifferent to Canadian politics and don't vote. | ||
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mikeymoo
Canada7170 Posts
Ignatieff just made a fool of himself and started freaking out. Harper kept his cool at the expense of resembling a robot. Duceppe was alright until Harper managed to confuse him on his own platform. Somehow Duceppe turned a question on multiculturalism into "multiculturalism in Quebec". Funny debate overall but no questions were really answered. Not that I was expecting answers. | ||
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emperorchampion
Canada9496 Posts
On April 13 2011 11:51 salito wrote: The Bloc isn't a non-factor. They have more seats than the NDP. As far as the debate went, I was most impressed by Layton. Not that it matters though, I'm indifferent to Canadian politics and don't vote. Just curious, but why don't you vote? | ||
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acker
United States2958 Posts
 And debates aren't an end-all for any politician, which policies they support is generally more important. | ||
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Krytha
Canada140 Posts
They lie and cheat to get their way (in and out election scam, proroguing parliament, taking auditor general praise for a liberal document years ago and pasting it on their own report for mismanaged G8 spending, Bev Oda misleading parliament etc.) They have only the interests of big corporations and upper middle class families at heart (lowering corporate taxes to 15%!!, promising tax credits, income splitting and tax free savings doubling in 2015 after they "balance" the budget - I don't know how many people can afford to put away 10k into tax free, but they sure aren't the average voter. Basically, all this stuff is coming IF they get re-elected after a full term?? That's like saying Ill pay you next week if you give me my groceries now.) They are focusing a large amount of money on unnecessary prisons and military spending (I know that we DO need to replace our jets, but the F-35 is going WAY over budget and is not outperforming the F-18 superhornet by any significant amount so why not get those for cheaper?) These are only a few things that the conservative government has been doing all this time. The G8/G20 spending final reports will be released and from the looks of it, the tories spent 1.2 billion dollars on the whole thing (compared to France which spent 50 million when they hosted it), held it at the last second in Toronto which led to a huge fiasco in terms of lost economy from the downtown core being shut down, vandalism, police brutality, people's rights being stepped on and more, and the G8 funds being misappropriated and spent on beautification projects in Muskoka and Parry Sound, after which Tony Clement, the tory MP for that area said that they were just getting "their fair share". lolwut? In contrast, the businesses that made claims for losing money during the G20 are getting nearly nothing back because?? Harper also claims that he is putting Canada back on the path to economic recovery? The only reason Canada is in the ok shape that it is in right now is because of the Liberal banking policies implemented by Paul Martins government. Under Harper, the economy is still stagnant and the total amount of jobs has decreased. The unemployment rate is currently around 7.7% and many of those created are mcjobs that pay minimum wage. Youre not going to be able to use those tax credits or tax free savings with a job like that. So for all of you who watched the debate and only payed attention to who's tie wasn't straight or who sounds like a douche or who left their fly open, go read about what this "government" is doing to our country. Think about what kind of place you want to live in. I'm going to vote strategically and pray to god that Harper is thrown out, and potentially into jail with the rest of his criminal pork barrel cabinet advisors (Bruce Carson convicted 5x of fraud found advising the PM... Jeeeeezus) | ||
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