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On April 05 2011 04:25 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2011 04:23 Kamais_Ookin wrote:
In the article: "Just like sexual assault is not about appearance."
That made me lol, I'm 100% sure appearance has some relevance to it. No one is going to sexually assault a 400 pound gorilla of a women as opposed to someone more attractive. Anyways I agree with the officer, I'm not saying that it's the sole reason for rape because it isn't but, stop dressing like damn sluts, it doesn't help matters at all. That's a misconception, women are often raped based on their status, their relationship with the rapist and their position socially and/or in the workplace. It's almost never about looks and the incite such an idea is actually perpetuating the "blaming the victim" card. Often times, men who rape are attracted and aroused by the idea of submission, control and domination of the woman and not by her attire, looks or weight. They get even more excited when they resist or even eventually submit. Blaming the victim is enabling rapists. This is similar to allowing police officers to entice crimes from citizens. I'll concede to that, makes sense. 
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On April 05 2011 04:24 42x10 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2011 04:22 Gene wrote:
"some people get their jollies from raping a woman"
why raping? Why not casual sex? Is it the lack of consent? how do you ahve sex with a woman without consent? by over powering them?
whats the difference between consensual sex and rape that gets your jollies off?
the only difference i can see is the overt display of power Yep, exactly as i said, the difference is an overt display of power. Also known as a fetish for domination.
Yeah, because any man on this planet can have sex with any woman he pleases, right?
...
It's mostly a display of power and dominance, sure. But it's also a factor caused by frustration, childhood trauma perhaps and inability to attract those respective women.
p.s. only slightly related to topic: i read somewhere that about 10% of the men (alpha men, players) have sex with nearly 80% of the world's women. The majority of the rest are beta males with a very scarce sexual life and who generally end up getting married to some woman they attracted through a fluke they themselves cannot understand how it worked out (some might call it fate)
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On April 05 2011 04:31 Tensai176 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2011 04:23 Kamais_Ookin wrote:
In the article: "Just like sexual assault is not about appearance."
That made me lol, I'm 100% sure appearance has some relevance to it. No one is going to sexually assault a 400 pound gorilla of a women as opposed to someone more attractive. Anyways I agree with the officer, I'm not saying that it's the sole reason for rape because it isn't but, stop dressing like damn sluts, it doesn't help matters at all. Why should a woman be restricted in her attire to seemingly "ward off" potential rapists? They should be able to wear anything they want and not be blamed when on the off-chance some chauvinistic douchebag rapes them because in almost all cases of rape, the motivations of the rapists have little to do with pure sexual desire.
Nobody is saying that these people deserved what they got. People are just being overly sensitive and taking it that way. They are saying that it increases the risk. Just like someone who drives a lot more is more likely to experience a car wreck caused by someone else. It's still not their fault but if they weren't driving it wouldn't have happened.
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On April 05 2011 04:25 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2011 04:23 Kamais_Ookin wrote:
In the article: "Just like sexual assault is not about appearance."
That made me lol, I'm 100% sure appearance has some relevance to it. No one is going to sexually assault a 400 pound gorilla of a women as opposed to someone more attractive. Anyways I agree with the officer, I'm not saying that it's the sole reason for rape because it isn't but, stop dressing like damn sluts, it doesn't help matters at all. That's a misconception, women are often raped based on their status, their relationship with the rapist and their position socially and/or in the workplace. It's almost never about looks and the incite such an idea is actually perpetuating the "blaming the victim" card. Often times, men who rape are attracted and aroused by the idea of submission, control and domination of the woman and not by her attire, looks or weight. They get even more excited when they resist or even eventually submit. Blaming the victim is enabling rapists. This is similar to allowing police officers to entice crimes from citizens.
EVERYONE LISTEN TO THIS GUY. You have hit the nail on the head here, Torte.
Whatever a rape survivor is wearing at the time has fuck all to do with the rapist's actions. To suggest otherwise is to blame the victim. Please put the focus on ending the kind of thinking that makes rapists think that they are allowed to victimize others, and not on the victims who did NOTHING AT ALL to provoke an attack.
JFC, guys, this is the reason why so many rapes go unreported. Even the people who are supposed to be supporting victims the most are going to say things like "Well, what were you wearing?" 
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On April 05 2011 04:32 Kamais_Ookin wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2011 04:25 Torte de Lini wrote:On April 05 2011 04:23 Kamais_Ookin wrote:
In the article: "Just like sexual assault is not about appearance."
That made me lol, I'm 100% sure appearance has some relevance to it. No one is going to sexually assault a 400 pound gorilla of a women as opposed to someone more attractive. Anyways I agree with the officer, I'm not saying that it's the sole reason for rape because it isn't but, stop dressing like damn sluts, it doesn't help matters at all. That's a misconception, women are often raped based on their status, their relationship with the rapist and their position socially and/or in the workplace. It's almost never about looks and the incite such an idea is actually perpetuating the "blaming the victim" card. Often times, men who rape are attracted and aroused by the idea of submission, control and domination of the woman and not by her attire, looks or weight. They get even more excited when they resist or even eventually submit. Blaming the victim is enabling rapists. This is similar to allowing police officers to entice crimes from citizens. I'll concede to that, makes sense.
I just wanted to post to tell you that I really appreciate you agreeing with me and seeing my side of things, it's very rare on the internet and to have you say this makes me extremely happy.
Of course, if you disagreed and had an equally logically argument, I would've been equally appreciative!
Thanks!
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Canada13379 Posts
Blaming women for being raped based on how they dress is just simply wrong. Its simply used as an excuse by the individual who sexually assaults the woman who was assaulted and reinstating this stereotype simply takes blame away from the assaulter. That is all this shouldnt even be a topic of discussion IMO as it perpetuates a terrible stereotype that the woman "deserved
it" because she dressed a certain way which is terribly wrong and a harmful mindset.
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I think this data you guys are providing are kinda missleading. Some of you say dressing doesn't matter at all because most of the rapes hapend in the house of the victim or in the house of the criminal(a trust must been there for someone to enter or let enter in their home)
But thats only the data you get from the reported rapes that are way less than what is really hapening out there, yea its all especulation, but then again how do they decide if the victim was or not dress in a revealing way? I mean is not like you can ask the victim if she was showing her stuff to the public or if she flirt with the guy that atack her... most of them will say no, but how you know if that's true? does someone looks at the cloths and says: Yes it was slutty outift... what i mean is there is no real way to know. Yes your using real data but this hapends to be so afected by all the stuff i just metion that is of not value for me atleast.
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On April 05 2011 04:09 travis wrote:wow im not gonna bother anymore, some things are just common fucking sense. why do you even think guys rape women in the first place. Show nested quote +On April 05 2011 03:58 Torte de Lini wrote:On April 05 2011 03:56 Gene wrote:On April 05 2011 03:55 Mastermind wrote:On April 05 2011 03:43 Zorkmid wrote:On April 05 2011 03:15 travis wrote:
I think it's pretty obvious that a horny guy is more likely to rape someone than a guy that isn't horny.
And I think it's also pretty obvious that dressing like a slut makes most guys horny. I don't really agree with either of these statements. 1. I can't see how any level of horniness could bring on rape. 2. A girl that dresses like a slut may get more attention, but that's about all. 1. What other reason would someone rape for? power Bingo, it's a question of power, and not sexual restraint. riiight. it might be, sometimes, but ... jesus, uthink that even accounts for the majority of rapes? wtf?
Actually I've learned in my sex offenders class in college is that the consensus from the therapists, social workers, psychologists, etc. (my professor is one) is that power is one of the PRIMARY reasons behind acts of sexual violence.
Now, this isn't to say that the rapist doesn't have to be attracted to the person they are raping, but that a person's underlying motive in the rape (whether he/she understands or knows this) is that they crave the power behind it.
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rape is natural
were just animals baby
User was temp banned for this post.
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On April 05 2011 04:36 checo wrote:
I think this data you guys are providing are kinda missleading. Some of you say dressing doesn't matter at all because most of the rapes hapend in the house of the victim or in the house of the criminal(a trust must been there for someone to enter or let enter in their home)
But thats only the data you get from the reported rapes that are way less than what is really hapening out there, yea its all especulation, but then again how do they decide if the victim was or not dress in a revealing way? I mean is not like you can ask the victim if she was showing her stuff to the public or if she flirt with the guy that atack her... most of them will say no, but how you know if that's true? does someone looks at the cloths and says: Yes it was slutty outift... what i mean is there is no real way to know. Yes your using real data but this hapends to be so afected by all the stuff i just metion that is of not value for me atleast.
Alright, so let's go on your assumption that no data at all about the issue is reliable then (even the accounts of the people involved). Where does this leave us?
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On April 05 2011 04:35 Magic_Mike wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2011 04:31 Tensai176 wrote:On April 05 2011 04:23 Kamais_Ookin wrote:
In the article: "Just like sexual assault is not about appearance."
That made me lol, I'm 100% sure appearance has some relevance to it. No one is going to sexually assault a 400 pound gorilla of a women as opposed to someone more attractive. Anyways I agree with the officer, I'm not saying that it's the sole reason for rape because it isn't but, stop dressing like damn sluts, it doesn't help matters at all. Why should a woman be restricted in her attire to seemingly "ward off" potential rapists? They should be able to wear anything they want and not be blamed when on the off-chance some chauvinistic douchebag rapes them because in almost all cases of rape, the motivations of the rapists have little to do with pure sexual desire. Nobody is saying that these people deserved what they got. People are just being overly sensitive and taking it that way. They are saying that it increases the risk. Just like someone who drives a lot more is more likely to experience a car wreck caused by someone else. It's still not their fault but if they weren't driving it wouldn't have happened.
There is no increase of risk. Car accidents are unintentional, rape is an intentional act due to the psychological problems and distorted thoughts of the rapist, the victim's choice of clothes doesn't alter or change these thoughts because the clothes or the physique of the women isn't the core issue or the trigger of the rapist's thoughts.
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On April 05 2011 04:38 GDbushido wrote:
rape is natural
were just animals baby
uhh no..
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On April 05 2011 04:35 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2011 04:32 Kamais_Ookin wrote:On April 05 2011 04:25 Torte de Lini wrote:On April 05 2011 04:23 Kamais_Ookin wrote:
In the article: "Just like sexual assault is not about appearance."
That made me lol, I'm 100% sure appearance has some relevance to it. No one is going to sexually assault a 400 pound gorilla of a women as opposed to someone more attractive. Anyways I agree with the officer, I'm not saying that it's the sole reason for rape because it isn't but, stop dressing like damn sluts, it doesn't help matters at all. That's a misconception, women are often raped based on their status, their relationship with the rapist and their position socially and/or in the workplace. It's almost never about looks and the incite such an idea is actually perpetuating the "blaming the victim" card. Often times, men who rape are attracted and aroused by the idea of submission, control and domination of the woman and not by her attire, looks or weight. They get even more excited when they resist or even eventually submit. Blaming the victim is enabling rapists. This is similar to allowing police officers to entice crimes from citizens. I'll concede to that, makes sense. I just wanted to post to tell you that I really appreciate you agreeing with me and seeing my side of things, it's very rare on the internet and to have you say this makes me extremely happy. Of course, if you disagreed and had an equally logically argument, I would've been equally appreciative! Thanks! Well that's the whole point of an argument, go back and forth until one person is right! Lot's of people are too stubborn, I'm reasonable though and like to learn new things anyways, I should be thanking you! 
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On April 05 2011 04:25 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2011 04:23 Kamais_Ookin wrote:
In the article: "Just like sexual assault is not about appearance."
That made me lol, I'm 100% sure appearance has some relevance to it. No one is going to sexually assault a 400 pound gorilla of a women as opposed to someone more attractive. Anyways I agree with the officer, I'm not saying that it's the sole reason for rape because it isn't but, stop dressing like damn sluts, it doesn't help matters at all. That's a misconception, women are often raped based on their status, their relationship with the rapist and their position socially and/or in the workplace. It's almost never about looks and the incite such an idea is actually perpetuating the "blaming the victim" card. Often times, men who rape are attracted and aroused by the idea of submission, control and domination of the woman and not by her attire, looks or weight. They get even more excited when they resist or even eventually submit. Blaming the victim is enabling rapists. This is similar to allowing police officers to entice crimes from citizens.
It's fallacious to equate a (perhaps incorrect) belief that outfit has a correlation with chance of being raped with blaming the victim. If we accepted that no one could believe this without blaming the victim, we would also have to accept that no one could believe that any voluntary factor might increase the chance of rape. We would just be applying the same accusation to different factors, e.g. "You think women being friends with males makes them more likely to be raped? You're blaming the victim. Women have the right to befriend whoever they want!"
Blaming the victim is a non sequitur extrapolation from certain (perhaps unbacked) statistical hypotheses. It is not exclusive to those hypotheses, nor is it synonymous with them.
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So someone says rape is about power.
Someone else says rape is about just wanting to fuck that person.
Argue argue argue argue argue, you're making me yawn. The correct answer would be everyone is different, every rapist is different, every rapist will have different motives.
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On April 05 2011 04:49 PanN wrote:
So someone says rape is about power.
Someone else says rape is about just wanting to fuck that person.
Argue argue argue argue argue, you're making me yawn. The correct answer would be everyone is different, every rapist is different, every rapist will have different motives.
It's concurred that the primary reason is power.
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On April 05 2011 04:47 Lixler wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2011 04:25 Torte de Lini wrote:On April 05 2011 04:23 Kamais_Ookin wrote:
In the article: "Just like sexual assault is not about appearance."
That made me lol, I'm 100% sure appearance has some relevance to it. No one is going to sexually assault a 400 pound gorilla of a women as opposed to someone more attractive. Anyways I agree with the officer, I'm not saying that it's the sole reason for rape because it isn't but, stop dressing like damn sluts, it doesn't help matters at all. That's a misconception, women are often raped based on their status, their relationship with the rapist and their position socially and/or in the workplace. It's almost never about looks and the incite such an idea is actually perpetuating the "blaming the victim" card. Often times, men who rape are attracted and aroused by the idea of submission, control and domination of the woman and not by her attire, looks or weight. They get even more excited when they resist or even eventually submit. Blaming the victim is enabling rapists. This is similar to allowing police officers to entice crimes from citizens. It's fallacious to equate a (perhaps incorrect) belief that outfit has a correlation with chance of being raped with blaming the victim. If we accepted that no one could believe this without blaming the victim, we would also have to accept that no one could believe that any voluntary factor might increase the chance of rape. We would just be applying the same accusation to different factors, e.g. "You think women being friends with males makes them more likely to be raped? You're blaming the victim. Women have the right to befriend whoever they want!" Blaming the victim is a non sequitur extrapolation from certain (perhaps unbacked) statistical hypotheses. It is not exclusive to those hypotheses, nor is it synonymous with them.
The fact that what a woman is wearing factors into the justice system's treatment of victims and perpetrators in rape cases (as demonstrated by the second link in the OP, also from Canada) means that there is a systemic effect of the belief in question, and that effect is to lift responsibility from the perpetrator and place it on the victim. I understand your point, but the treatment of rape victims by the justice system makes it superfluous.
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Wow, this is a lot to read... I read most of the postings and agree with most of them; however, provacative dress may just increase the rapists' desire to go through with a rape. The attire may incite him to rape, but being the (for lack of a better term) crafty SOB he is, just takes out his desire on some poor woman who isn't dressed provacatively because she is an easier target than the woman who fueled his desire by her provacative dress in the first place. This might explain why the statistics in the above postings show that a lot of rape victims are modestly dressed people.
I am just musing, but it seems like provacative dress does increase the chances of a rape happening, and unfortunately, the shy and vulnerable usually end up being the victim.
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If I stand in the open in an area known for crime counting a stack of money and am subsequently robbed. Am I at fault?
Some would say yes. I was stupid for doing it and deserved what I got. These people would be blaming the victim.
In reality No I am not at fault for the actions of the person who decided to rob me.
BUT did I increase my risk of being robbed by my own actions and decisions? Yes.
Does someone who merely says I increased my risk of being robbed blame me for the Robbery?
No.
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EPT
