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Iraq & Syrian Civil Wars - Page 34

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Please guys, stay on topic.

This thread is about the situation in Iraq and Syria.
Eben
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States769 Posts
March 19 2013 23:55 GMT
#661
I wonder if any chemical weapons were used.. hmm
Ph4ZeD
Profile Joined September 2011
United Kingdom753 Posts
March 20 2013 00:09 GMT
#662
Very much doubt it. It's quite hard to see why the Syrian government would choose now as the time to use them, and on such a small scale. The idea that the rebels used them is a joke and is similar to the government's previous propaganda strategy of blaming devastation on heavy weapons that the rebels clearly don't have.
ImFromPortugal
Profile Joined April 2010
Portugal1368 Posts
March 20 2013 03:30 GMT
#663
US House Intelligence Committee Chairman Mike Rogers tells @CNN there is a 'high probability' Syria used chemical weapon
Yes im
Zaros
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United Kingdom3692 Posts
March 20 2013 03:36 GMT
#664
On March 20 2013 07:57 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Honestly let Turkey, France, Britain, and Qatar handle Syria. The US should stay out of it.


If its a NATO operation then the US should help, you are the world super power atm, all of those countries combined don't make up anything close to the US military.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
March 20 2013 03:45 GMT
#665
On March 20 2013 12:36 Zaros wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 20 2013 07:57 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Honestly let Turkey, France, Britain, and Qatar handle Syria. The US should stay out of it.


If its a NATO operation then the US should help, you are the world super power atm, all of those countries combined don't make up anything close to the US military.


TBH I think a coalition of nations rather than NATO would be better in terms of implementation, logistics, strategy. Look at Libya revealed about NATO, it is wholly unprepared and incapable of such a months long campaign. The United States is exhausted militarily, and politically with War then there is the "Europe's Backyard" mentality.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Zaros
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United Kingdom3692 Posts
March 20 2013 04:01 GMT
#666
On March 20 2013 12:45 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 20 2013 12:36 Zaros wrote:
On March 20 2013 07:57 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Honestly let Turkey, France, Britain, and Qatar handle Syria. The US should stay out of it.


If its a NATO operation then the US should help, you are the world super power atm, all of those countries combined don't make up anything close to the US military.


TBH I think a coalition of nations rather than NATO would be better in terms of implementation, logistics, strategy. Look at Libya revealed about NATO, it is wholly unprepared and incapable of such a months long campaign. The United States is exhausted militarily, and politically with War then there is the "Europe's Backyard" mentality.


Well then its up to Britain and France to maintain the defence of Europe and surrounding interventions, which are still cutting defence budgets and with the debt crises and the Iraq war controversy there isn't anything politically to be gained by increasing defence spending in Britain at least,so it makes Europe more vulnerable and its intervention capability a lot poorer without US involvement.

If the US keeps up with the "Europe's Backyard" mentality then we might as well get rid of NATO. The defence and Security Co-operation Treaty will be come the new European NATO probably seeing as other European countries don't pull their weight militarily or diplomatically* cough* Germany *cough*
FallDownMarigold
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States3710 Posts
March 20 2013 04:08 GMT
#667
Just figured someone here would have a reasonable guess:

What percentage of the rebel fighters in Syria are once-civilians who turned against what they deemed was an oppressive government vs. what percentage of the rebel fighters in Syria are "extremists" or fighters from pre-existing groups such as Al Qaeda?

{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-20 20:08:10
March 20 2013 20:06 GMT
#668
On March 20 2013 13:01 Zaros wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 20 2013 12:45 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
On March 20 2013 12:36 Zaros wrote:
On March 20 2013 07:57 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Honestly let Turkey, France, Britain, and Qatar handle Syria. The US should stay out of it.


If its a NATO operation then the US should help, you are the world super power atm, all of those countries combined don't make up anything close to the US military.


TBH I think a coalition of nations rather than NATO would be better in terms of implementation, logistics, strategy. Look at Libya revealed about NATO, it is wholly unprepared and incapable of such a months long campaign. The United States is exhausted militarily, and politically with War then there is the "Europe's Backyard" mentality.


Well then its up to Britain and France to maintain the defence of Europe and surrounding interventions, which are still cutting defence budgets and with the debt crises and the Iraq war controversy there isn't anything politically to be gained by increasing defence spending in Britain at least,so it makes Europe more vulnerable and its intervention capability a lot poorer without US involvement.

If the US keeps up with the "Europe's Backyard" mentality then we might as well get rid of NATO. The defence and Security Co-operation Treaty will be come the new European NATO probably seeing as other European countries don't pull their weight militarily or diplomatically* cough* Germany *cough*


Let's be honest Great Britain, and to a historical and greater (debatable) extent France, has had to watch and maintain the defense of Europe since the mid 1700's minus a decade or two when they were fighting each other.

BEIRUT — Once highly dependent on revenue from petroleum sales, the Syrian government has lost control of many of the country’s major oil fields over the past few months as Kurdish forces and the rebel Free Syrian Army have made significant gains in the east.

For some rebel units, captured oil could pay for weapons. For the Kurds, it could furnish greater autonomy.

Syria was never particularly known for its oil wealth. In a region that is home to many of the world’s largest oil producers, Syria’s 2.5 billion barrels of proven reserves were far overshadowed by Saudi Arabia’s 267 billion or neighboring Iraq’s 115 billion.

But to the Syrian government, oil was a way to help balance the books.

“It was a very essential contribution to the state budget,” said Samir Seifan, a Syrian economist now living in Iraq. “Also, it was the main source of hard currency.”


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Pika Chu
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
Romania2510 Posts
March 21 2013 10:15 GMT
#669
On March 20 2013 13:08 FallDownMarigold wrote:
Just figured someone here would have a reasonable guess:

What percentage of the rebel fighters in Syria are once-civilians who turned against what they deemed was an oppressive government vs. what percentage of the rebel fighters in Syria are "extremists" or fighters from pre-existing groups such as Al Qaeda?



That's really impossible to know. And it's hard to guess on something where you don't have any clues.
They first ignore you. After they laugh at you. Next they will fight you. In the end you will win.
Zaros
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United Kingdom3692 Posts
March 21 2013 10:26 GMT
#670
On March 21 2013 05:06 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 20 2013 13:01 Zaros wrote:
On March 20 2013 12:45 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
On March 20 2013 12:36 Zaros wrote:
On March 20 2013 07:57 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Honestly let Turkey, France, Britain, and Qatar handle Syria. The US should stay out of it.


If its a NATO operation then the US should help, you are the world super power atm, all of those countries combined don't make up anything close to the US military.


TBH I think a coalition of nations rather than NATO would be better in terms of implementation, logistics, strategy. Look at Libya revealed about NATO, it is wholly unprepared and incapable of such a months long campaign. The United States is exhausted militarily, and politically with War then there is the "Europe's Backyard" mentality.


Well then its up to Britain and France to maintain the defence of Europe and surrounding interventions, which are still cutting defence budgets and with the debt crises and the Iraq war controversy there isn't anything politically to be gained by increasing defence spending in Britain at least,so it makes Europe more vulnerable and its intervention capability a lot poorer without US involvement.

If the US keeps up with the "Europe's Backyard" mentality then we might as well get rid of NATO. The defence and Security Co-operation Treaty will be come the new European NATO probably seeing as other European countries don't pull their weight militarily or diplomatically* cough* Germany *cough*


Let's be honest Great Britain, and to a historical and greater (debatable) extent France, has had to watch and maintain the defense of Europe since the mid 1700's minus a decade or two when they were fighting each other.

Show nested quote +
BEIRUT — Once highly dependent on revenue from petroleum sales, the Syrian government has lost control of many of the country’s major oil fields over the past few months as Kurdish forces and the rebel Free Syrian Army have made significant gains in the east.

For some rebel units, captured oil could pay for weapons. For the Kurds, it could furnish greater autonomy.

Syria was never particularly known for its oil wealth. In a region that is home to many of the world’s largest oil producers, Syria’s 2.5 billion barrels of proven reserves were far overshadowed by Saudi Arabia’s 267 billion or neighboring Iraq’s 115 billion.

But to the Syrian government, oil was a way to help balance the books.

“It was a very essential contribution to the state budget,” said Samir Seifan, a Syrian economist now living in Iraq. “Also, it was the main source of hard currency.”


Source


Well from WW2 onwards I would say the defence of Europe has largely been due to the US until the collapse of the soviet union.
Silvanel
Profile Blog Joined March 2003
Poland4768 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-21 10:36:45
March 21 2013 10:30 GMT
#671
On March 21 2013 05:06 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 20 2013 13:01 Zaros wrote:
On March 20 2013 12:45 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
On March 20 2013 12:36 Zaros wrote:
On March 20 2013 07:57 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Honestly let Turkey, France, Britain, and Qatar handle Syria. The US should stay out of it.


If its a NATO operation then the US should help, you are the world super power atm, all of those countries combined don't make up anything close to the US military.


TBH I think a coalition of nations rather than NATO would be better in terms of implementation, logistics, strategy. Look at Libya revealed about NATO, it is wholly unprepared and incapable of such a months long campaign. The United States is exhausted militarily, and politically with War then there is the "Europe's Backyard" mentality.


Well then its up to Britain and France to maintain the defence of Europe and surrounding interventions, which are still cutting defence budgets and with the debt crises and the Iraq war controversy there isn't anything politically to be gained by increasing defence spending in Britain at least,so it makes Europe more vulnerable and its intervention capability a lot poorer without US involvement.

If the US keeps up with the "Europe's Backyard" mentality then we might as well get rid of NATO. The defence and Security Co-operation Treaty will be come the new European NATO probably seeing as other European countries don't pull their weight militarily or diplomatically* cough* Germany *cough*


Let's be honest Great Britain, and to a historical and greater (debatable) extent France, has had to watch and maintain the defense of Europe since the mid 1700's minus a decade or two when they were fighting each other.



Thats very far from truth, in fact all external threats to Europe in that period were fought off by Russia and Austria. All Britain and France were doing was defending their Colnial/Imperial interests.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_conflicts_in_Europe#17th_century

The only external threat to Europe in that period was Ottoman Empire. And like i said above they were fought off by Russians and Austrian Empire. After the collapse of Ottoman Empire there were no external threats to Europe, Russia is part of Europe, Germany is part of Europe.
Pathetic Greta hater.
Romantic
Profile Joined January 2010
United States1844 Posts
March 21 2013 10:34 GMT
#672
On March 20 2013 12:30 ImFromPortugal wrote:
US House Intelligence Committee Chairman Mike Rogers tells @CNN there is a 'high probability' Syria used chemical weapon

But do people actually still believe the government? Remember, Saddam has sneaky cargo ships outfitted with drones carrying chemical and biological weapons floating off the coast of America!
Zaros
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United Kingdom3692 Posts
March 21 2013 10:35 GMT
#673
On March 21 2013 19:30 Silvanel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 21 2013 05:06 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
On March 20 2013 13:01 Zaros wrote:
On March 20 2013 12:45 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
On March 20 2013 12:36 Zaros wrote:
On March 20 2013 07:57 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Honestly let Turkey, France, Britain, and Qatar handle Syria. The US should stay out of it.


If its a NATO operation then the US should help, you are the world super power atm, all of those countries combined don't make up anything close to the US military.


TBH I think a coalition of nations rather than NATO would be better in terms of implementation, logistics, strategy. Look at Libya revealed about NATO, it is wholly unprepared and incapable of such a months long campaign. The United States is exhausted militarily, and politically with War then there is the "Europe's Backyard" mentality.


Well then its up to Britain and France to maintain the defence of Europe and surrounding interventions, which are still cutting defence budgets and with the debt crises and the Iraq war controversy there isn't anything politically to be gained by increasing defence spending in Britain at least,so it makes Europe more vulnerable and its intervention capability a lot poorer without US involvement.

If the US keeps up with the "Europe's Backyard" mentality then we might as well get rid of NATO. The defence and Security Co-operation Treaty will be come the new European NATO probably seeing as other European countries don't pull their weight militarily or diplomatically* cough* Germany *cough*


Let's be honest Great Britain, and to a historical and greater (debatable) extent France, has had to watch and maintain the defense of Europe since the mid 1700's minus a decade or two when they were fighting each other.



Thats very far from truth, in fact all external threats to Europe in that period were fought off by Russia and Austria. All Britain and France were doing was defending their Colnial/Imperial interests.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_conflicts_in_Europe#17th_century


The only external threat to europe at that time would have been im guessing the Ottoman empire but there was alot of infighting in that period which France (apart from Napoleon) and Britain tried to keep under control.
FuzzyJAM
Profile Joined July 2010
Scotland9300 Posts
March 21 2013 10:38 GMT
#674
On March 20 2013 13:01 Zaros wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 20 2013 12:45 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
On March 20 2013 12:36 Zaros wrote:
On March 20 2013 07:57 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Honestly let Turkey, France, Britain, and Qatar handle Syria. The US should stay out of it.


If its a NATO operation then the US should help, you are the world super power atm, all of those countries combined don't make up anything close to the US military.


TBH I think a coalition of nations rather than NATO would be better in terms of implementation, logistics, strategy. Look at Libya revealed about NATO, it is wholly unprepared and incapable of such a months long campaign. The United States is exhausted militarily, and politically with War then there is the "Europe's Backyard" mentality.


Well then its up to Britain and France to maintain the defence of Europe and surrounding interventions, which are still cutting defence budgets and with the debt crises and the Iraq war controversy there isn't anything politically to be gained by increasing defence spending in Britain at least,so it makes Europe more vulnerable and its intervention capability a lot poorer without US involvement.

If the US keeps up with the "Europe's Backyard" mentality then we might as well get rid of NATO. The defence and Security Co-operation Treaty will be come the new European NATO probably seeing as other European countries don't pull their weight militarily or diplomatically* cough* Germany *cough*


In the last quarter of a century, the only place in Europe to have any threat of war, let alone actually see it, is ex-Yugoslavia. Europe is under precisely zero threat except for the civil wars (at least in a European sense) we get between different ethnic groups. No country outside Europe has any possibility (in terms of logistics and intention) to harm Europe. At all. And there is no foreseeable future in which they can.

What, precisely, do you want Germany to do to help defend Europe?
Did you ever say Yes to a single joy?
Silvanel
Profile Blog Joined March 2003
Poland4768 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-21 10:42:21
March 21 2013 10:39 GMT
#675
There were a lot of fighting inside of Europe. But can You really say You are protecting Europe by fighting France? Or Germany? Or Russia? No, what You are doing is protecting Your own interests.
Pathetic Greta hater.
Thor.Rush
Profile Joined April 2011
Sweden702 Posts
March 21 2013 10:46 GMT
#676
17th century is the 1600s bro.
| SaSe | Naniwa |Stephano | LucifroN | Mvp | MarineKing | ByuN | Polt | MC | Parting |
Silvanel
Profile Blog Joined March 2003
Poland4768 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-21 10:50:50
March 21 2013 10:48 GMT
#677
On March 21 2013 19:46 Thor.Rush wrote:
17th century is the 1600s bro.


Thats just a link genius, if You acctualy bothered to check it out You would see it lists all European conflicts.
Pathetic Greta hater.
FuzzyJAM
Profile Joined July 2010
Scotland9300 Posts
March 21 2013 10:48 GMT
#678
On March 21 2013 19:39 Silvanel wrote:
There were a lot of fighting inside of Europe. But can You really say You are protecting Europe by fighting France? Or Germany? Or Russia? No, what You are doing is protecting Your own interests.

Exactly.

For centuries the biggest threat to the interests of almost all European countries has been other European countries. Well, that and America for Eastern Europe (depending on what you count as "interests") for about 40-50 years and Asian-Russia (though given that Russia is primarily European politically that's not a big deal) for the same period.
Did you ever say Yes to a single joy?
Zaros
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United Kingdom3692 Posts
March 21 2013 10:50 GMT
#679
On March 21 2013 19:38 FuzzyJAM wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 20 2013 13:01 Zaros wrote:
On March 20 2013 12:45 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
On March 20 2013 12:36 Zaros wrote:
On March 20 2013 07:57 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Honestly let Turkey, France, Britain, and Qatar handle Syria. The US should stay out of it.


If its a NATO operation then the US should help, you are the world super power atm, all of those countries combined don't make up anything close to the US military.


TBH I think a coalition of nations rather than NATO would be better in terms of implementation, logistics, strategy. Look at Libya revealed about NATO, it is wholly unprepared and incapable of such a months long campaign. The United States is exhausted militarily, and politically with War then there is the "Europe's Backyard" mentality.


Well then its up to Britain and France to maintain the defence of Europe and surrounding interventions, which are still cutting defence budgets and with the debt crises and the Iraq war controversy there isn't anything politically to be gained by increasing defence spending in Britain at least,so it makes Europe more vulnerable and its intervention capability a lot poorer without US involvement.

If the US keeps up with the "Europe's Backyard" mentality then we might as well get rid of NATO. The defence and Security Co-operation Treaty will be come the new European NATO probably seeing as other European countries don't pull their weight militarily or diplomatically* cough* Germany *cough*


In the last quarter of a century, the only place in Europe to have any threat of war, let alone actually see it, is ex-Yugoslavia. Europe is under precisely zero threat except for the civil wars (at least in a European sense) we get between different ethnic groups. No country outside Europe has any possibility (in terms of logistics and intention) to harm Europe. At all. And there is no foreseeable future in which they can.

What, precisely, do you want Germany to do to help defend Europe?


No country right now has any intention or logistics to harm Europe but nobody knows what is going to happen in the future and its not just about countries attacking Europe, Europeans have interests outside of Europe that may require intervention like Mali like Libya, other areas of the maghreb perhaps Syria perhaps Iran perhaps further east looking towards the pacific if we want to help trading partners (hundreds of territorial disputes around china.)

With regards to Germany they don't have as much as a Global presence militarily as Britain or France yet they are an economic powerhouse, so if European countries want to intervene to defend shared interests (the merits of which are debatable but is a separate issue) then Germany should increase defence spending by probably double to match %GDP of France and Britain.
FuzzyJAM
Profile Joined July 2010
Scotland9300 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-21 10:52:45
March 21 2013 10:52 GMT
#680
On March 21 2013 19:50 Zaros wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 21 2013 19:38 FuzzyJAM wrote:
On March 20 2013 13:01 Zaros wrote:
On March 20 2013 12:45 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
On March 20 2013 12:36 Zaros wrote:
On March 20 2013 07:57 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Honestly let Turkey, France, Britain, and Qatar handle Syria. The US should stay out of it.


If its a NATO operation then the US should help, you are the world super power atm, all of those countries combined don't make up anything close to the US military.


TBH I think a coalition of nations rather than NATO would be better in terms of implementation, logistics, strategy. Look at Libya revealed about NATO, it is wholly unprepared and incapable of such a months long campaign. The United States is exhausted militarily, and politically with War then there is the "Europe's Backyard" mentality.


Well then its up to Britain and France to maintain the defence of Europe and surrounding interventions, which are still cutting defence budgets and with the debt crises and the Iraq war controversy there isn't anything politically to be gained by increasing defence spending in Britain at least,so it makes Europe more vulnerable and its intervention capability a lot poorer without US involvement.

If the US keeps up with the "Europe's Backyard" mentality then we might as well get rid of NATO. The defence and Security Co-operation Treaty will be come the new European NATO probably seeing as other European countries don't pull their weight militarily or diplomatically* cough* Germany *cough*


In the last quarter of a century, the only place in Europe to have any threat of war, let alone actually see it, is ex-Yugoslavia. Europe is under precisely zero threat except for the civil wars (at least in a European sense) we get between different ethnic groups. No country outside Europe has any possibility (in terms of logistics and intention) to harm Europe. At all. And there is no foreseeable future in which they can.

What, precisely, do you want Germany to do to help defend Europe?


No country right now has any intention or logistics to harm Europe but nobody knows what is going to happen in the future and its not just about countries attacking Europe, Europeans have interests outside of Europe that may require intervention like Mali like Libya, other areas of the maghreb perhaps Syria perhaps Iran perhaps further east looking towards the pacific if we want to help trading partners (hundreds of territorial disputes around china.)

With regards to Germany they don't have as much as a Global presence militarily as Britain or France yet they are an economic powerhouse, so if European countries want to intervene to defend shared interests (the merits of which are debatable but is a separate issue) then Germany should increase defence spending by probably double to match %GDP of France and Britain.


Germany chooses not to try to force the world to work in the German way and, as far as I'm concerned, that's far better for the world in the long run and far more moral.

You're free to disagree on the morality, but don't confuse modern day imperialism with defence. They are not remotely the same thing.
Did you ever say Yes to a single joy?
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