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Please guys, stay on topic.
This thread is about the situation in Iraq and Syria. |
On March 15 2012 03:15 phoenix`down wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 02:01 Aurocaido wrote:On March 14 2012 21:55 zalz wrote:On March 14 2012 21:30 ahappystar wrote:
Good thing I'm ignoring you, but its laughable how what you talk about has nothing to do with the problem, at least it shows that you acknowledge that you are wrong if you are avoiding the subject. I'm just surprised you didn't mention the holocaust, Tibet, Genghis Khan and of course how can we forget... Sweden Humans will do whatever it takes to stay alive. It is upon that very simple foundation that these dictatorships rest. What I was doing was explaining why 1 man who seems almost brainwashed (EVERYONE LOVES ASSAD!) isn't a reliable source, especially when you remember that he lives in Damascus. Had that same clip been online and he had said that he didn't like Assad, the police would have him in some torture chamber by now. Or maybe just an old fashioned execution. Like I said, it would help if you had a few lessons in history so that you would be taught the basics of learning to value a source. For example, a man at the mercy of a dictatorial government is not a very good source. North-Korean state TV is not a good source. Russian Today is not a good source. But you seem to be missing even this baseline of knowledge that you need to really be able to properly engage in a discussion so you are left with just spouting whatever news you manage to find that fits in your worldview. You aren't special in that regard, in fact, most conspiracy nutjobs do exactly that. You lack the ability to value the validity of a source, thus you are completly at the mercy of whatever propaganda is thrown your way. You can't understand that a man who will be killed for speaking a different opinion might be considered an unreliable source of information, you can't grasp that. So you deliver a piece of evidence that shows CNN actually questions its own sources and admits when they are unreliable and a man that knows that he needs to keep his opinions to himself or face execution by Assad's forces. Somewhere along the road you translate that into somehow being proof of all your insanities, like Homs being perfectly fine. But like I stated earlier, the problem is that you lack the ability to value sources, thus you just fall for whatever you want to be true, not what actually is true. Are you 14? Or did you just never graduate high school? I don't know why you even post in threads like this all you ever contribute is anecdotal evidence and personal attacks. You contribute nothing... ever. I throw up in my mouth a little bit whenever I see a post with your name above it. Everytime I visit a thread such as this I have a nagging feeling in the back of my mind that you are in the discussion and I am going to have to wade through your same garbage rhetoric. You are completely incapable of thinking critically about anything that does not fit your narrow and foolishly naive worldview. I disagree with you, I think his posts are contributing. Seeing people with different views on an issue go at it can be educational. I do find it kind of funny that you accuse him of not contributing to anything by coming to this thread and posting something that contributes nothing at all to the topic.
Read the whole thread.
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On March 15 2012 02:01 Aurocaido wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2012 21:55 zalz wrote:On March 14 2012 21:30 ahappystar wrote:
Good thing I'm ignoring you, but its laughable how what you talk about has nothing to do with the problem, at least it shows that you acknowledge that you are wrong if you are avoiding the subject. I'm just surprised you didn't mention the holocaust, Tibet, Genghis Khan and of course how can we forget... Sweden Humans will do whatever it takes to stay alive. It is upon that very simple foundation that these dictatorships rest. What I was doing was explaining why 1 man who seems almost brainwashed (EVERYONE LOVES ASSAD!) isn't a reliable source, especially when you remember that he lives in Damascus. Had that same clip been online and he had said that he didn't like Assad, the police would have him in some torture chamber by now. Or maybe just an old fashioned execution. Like I said, it would help if you had a few lessons in history so that you would be taught the basics of learning to value a source. For example, a man at the mercy of a dictatorial government is not a very good source. North-Korean state TV is not a good source. Russian Today is not a good source. But you seem to be missing even this baseline of knowledge that you need to really be able to properly engage in a discussion so you are left with just spouting whatever news you manage to find that fits in your worldview. You aren't special in that regard, in fact, most conspiracy nutjobs do exactly that. You lack the ability to value the validity of a source, thus you are completly at the mercy of whatever propaganda is thrown your way. You can't understand that a man who will be killed for speaking a different opinion might be considered an unreliable source of information, you can't grasp that. So you deliver a piece of evidence that shows CNN actually questions its own sources and admits when they are unreliable and a man that knows that he needs to keep his opinions to himself or face execution by Assad's forces. Somewhere along the road you translate that into somehow being proof of all your insanities, like Homs being perfectly fine. But like I stated earlier, the problem is that you lack the ability to value sources, thus you just fall for whatever you want to be true, not what actually is true. Are you 14? Or did you just never graduate high school? I don't know why you even post in threads like this all you ever contribute is anecdotal evidence and personal attacks. You contribute nothing... ever. I throw up in my mouth a little bit whenever I see a post with your name above it. Everytime I visit a thread such as this I have a nagging feeling in the back of my mind that you are in the discussion and I am going to have to wade through your same garbage rhetoric. You are completely incapable of thinking critically about anything that does not fit your narrow and foolishly naive worldview.
I get PM's on a regular basis that are supportive of my posts.
Also, complaining about personal attacks after launching into what literally nothing more than a personal attack is a little peculiar.
But I didn't actually launch into any personal attack. If a person continually displays an inability to properly judge sources, then I think it is fair to adress that.
Nobody would stand for it if I was constantly quoting people from facebook as evidence, so why accept other cheap sources?
That guy from facebook wrote:
Assad just killed everyone in Syria with his own bare hands.
Ooh look, evidence that Assad is evil...
You are being a bit silly and I can understand that you get angry at my posts. Many people on TL get angry when they see people posting from a different point of view. But in this particular case I think you didn't really think it through and just thought you had a chance to pounce on me for what you thought was an insult, but in reality was a very valid complaint.
I think that when people constantly bring up very poor evidence for their claims, that should be adresssed. In doing so we only raise the quality of the debate, and everyone should support that.
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On March 15 2012 02:02 MaV_gGSC wrote:
So many people have died... RIP
Yup. 8000 people. ... And counting :/
Source
I wonder how high the death toll has to go before we actually do something...
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i guess in 5 years we will find out that the CIA has planned & supported the riots...
would really surprise me if they didnt.
i don't believe the media.
a witness, who doesnt know he's being manipulated, is the real deal.
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On March 15 2012 08:16 iMAniaC wrote:Yup. 8000 people. ... And counting :/ SourceI wonder how high the death toll has to go before we actually do something...
"we?" shouldn't do jack.
syrian leaders fucked up, the needs and wants of the syrian people are unknown, manipulation is everywhere and you want to do what?. anything is not better then nothing here.
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Everybody lies.
The government lies and the revolutionaries lie. This is a fact.
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A Russian military unit has arrived in Syria, according to Russian news reports, a development that a United Nations Security Council source told ABC News was "a bomb" certain to have serious repercussions.
Russia, one of President Bashar al-Assad's strongest allies despite international condemnation of the government's violent crackdown on the country's uprising, has repeatedly blocked the United Nations Security Council's attempts to halt the violence, accusing the U.S. and its allies of trying to start another war.
Now the Russian Black Sea fleet's Iman tanker has arrived in the Syrian port of Tartus on the Mediterranean Sea with an anti-terror squad from the Russian Marines aboard according to the Interfax news agency. The Assad government has insisted it is fighting a terrorist insurgency.
Source
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FWIW Syria is pretty much the last secular Government in the Middle East. My opinion on this matter is that the entire situation is Syria's own business, entirely convulated, and where intrigue and avarice abound, you should steer clear. There's enough problems in our countries to worry about others.
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So the troops are called Anti-Terror Troops, Russia has every right to protect it's bases, embassy, citizens in Syria. But if Russia actually join Assad in combat operations against the Rebels then a whole shit storm will be released. France, Qatar, and Turkey will be forced to do something.
EDIT: Also AJE has gotten hold of secret documents from a high profiled defector now in Turkey:
The documents indicate that the government spied on the Arab League monitoring mission, which was in Syria at the end of last year.
They also spell out where protests have been taking place, and how many people were involved. They show that some of the biggest rallies have been in the province of Idlib.
Barakat, the whistleblower, told Al Jazeera: “Any person reading these reports will be shocked, will realise that Syria is living a true crisis: killings, criminality and suppression of protesters.
“However security chiefs paint [a] beautiful picture in their reports. They ignore many substantial facts on the ground, simply to boost the president’s morale,” he said.
Al Jazeera's Bays said that the network was confident about the validity of the documents, and that two Al Jazeera teams had worked for days to verify them.
"We have been through the documents in detail ... not just looking at what's in the documents, the detail of the documents, looking at the letterheads, looking at the the signatures on the documents, speaking to Syrians, speaking to opposition activists.
"We are very confident that the documents are genuine," he said.
Source
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Hello All
I just would like to share this video with the TL Community because it means a lot to me that you (people who share similar interests and experiences as myself) know of what is really happening in Syria.
Syria Regime Buries Man Alive
I will translate what they are saying (summarized)
- Army Soldier: Sir he had a camera and he wanted to give the video to Aljazeera and Alarabiya (these are Arab news channels) in return for money
- Man Buried Alive (repeatedly says): Oh Allah (Oh God), La Elaha Ella Allah (There is No God but Allah).
- Regime-Affiliated Comamnder (repeatedly says): "Bury this animal, bury him"
"Say No God but Bashar (the Syrian president) you animal"
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What kind of good president allows this to happen and has no problem with people calling him God? These people have no hearts. What crime did this person do? He is filming their atrocities and therefore deserves to die? If anything this proves that the videos are real and the regime is doing anything they can to hide their atrocities. I am sure this is the least thing they have done out there.
If you really want to help, please let the world know. Let the governments do something. There is no diplomatic solution with this criminal regime, and the world must interfere by force to remove this bastard Assad.
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Too many Syrians are supporting Assad. The problem is not Assad. It's the soilders that support him.
In Libya soldiers defected en masse very early on. The people who fought for him were the militias outside of the normal army structure and mercenaries.
When NATO went to war with Gaddafi, China and Russia and Iran and who knows else started to give Gaddafi even more arms. Same will happen with Syria. It will be a blood bath if NATO invases Syria.
It's Syrians killing Syrians. What can we as citizens in the west do? It's not like with Egypt or Bahrain where they are suppored by the west. And if you are in Russia or China you have no say anyway.
Even in the west we basically have no influence on foreign policy either.
We can only hope the Syrian regime collapses from the inside soon.
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On April 26 2012 20:40 bahaa wrote:Hello All I just would like to share this video with the TL Community because it means a lot to me that you (people who share similar interests and experiences as myself) know of what is really happening in Syria. Syria Regime Buries Man AliveI will translate what they are saying (summarized) - Army Soldier: Sir he had a camera and he wanted to give the video to Aljazeera and Alarabiya (these are Arab news channels) in return for money - Man Buried Alive (repeatedly says): Oh Allah (Oh God), La Elaha Ella Allah (There is No God but Allah). - Regime-Affiliated Comamnder (repeatedly says): "Bury this animal, bury him" "Say No God but Bashar (the Syrian president) you animal" ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What kind of good president allows this to happen and has no problem with people calling him God? These people have no hearts. What crime did this person do? He is filming their atrocities and therefore deserves to die? If anything this proves that the videos are real and the regime is doing anything they can to hide their atrocities. I am sure this is the least thing they have done out there. If you really want to help, please let the world know. Let the governments do something. There is no diplomatic solution with this criminal regime, and the world must interfere by force to remove this bastard Assad.
That is so disturbing I don't even know what to say...shit man...how the fuck do we humans do these kinds of things to each other. It's like a persons life is worth absolutely nothing.
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Yeah out of fear because they cannot defect if they have no place to regroup, and they have no arms. He is keeping whole battalions of sunni soldiers in their barraks with no arms for fear that they would defect if they were armed and sent to combat the rebels. Plus the ruling party is from his sect and top commanders and security personnel too...
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@papaz
Unfortunately dictators are nothing new. They have no specific race/color/sect.
That thing they did is the least of the murderous and vile things they do.
How about raping defenseless women and children, burning them, cutting them with knives, and mutilating their corpses? They're doing that too.
Some people are too selfish to care. People are "bacteria" to them.
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The problem is that there is no solution. Even if there was the political will for a military intervention, the moment Western troops set foot in another country in the Middle-East, it will only escalate the conflict and give the entire region even more of a reason to reject 'western imperialism'.
As sad as it is, the Syrians themselves are going to have to overthrow Assad.
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pretty much same sectarian problems that have been simmering for the last 50 years or so, shia minority government sunni majority country toi add to the that the price of arms in the middle east has risen dramatically in the last year or so while there has been a migration of fighters from iraq to syria. At the end of day niether side is trually the right or good one they are both guilty of crimes best for the west to stay out of it imo.
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Yes because you know too much more than everyone right? Not just the west, the whole world should interfere, especially the Arab Countries.
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I'll let this video here, if you want to see and hear a syrian talking about her country, because seriously this disturbs me to see europeans and americans talking about a country they've never been into and don't really know the population, history or culture.
+ Show Spoiler +
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I'll let this video here, if you want to see and hear a syrian talking about her country, because seriously this disturbs me to see europeans and americans talking about a country they've never been into and don't really know the population, history or culture.
It's so boring when the residents of the Third World insist that Westerners don't know really know their population, history, or culture, they need a new way to defend themselves against quite correct if unflattering observations about their countries. What's ironic is that they are the ones who are actually massive ignorant of our people, history, and culture, yet they always want to lecture us about how it's really us who doesn't know them.
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On April 26 2012 21:55 bahaa wrote:
Yes because you know too much more than everyone right? Not just the west, the whole world should interfere, especially the Arab Countries.
What do you think will happen? Hot-headed thinking doesn't solve anything. A lot more people will die if you start bombing and arm the rebels. Probably many more than have died so far. 30000 civilians died in Libya because of the NATO intervention. There is also no guarantee that the rebels won't commit atrocities against the parts of the civilian population that is seen as regime supporters. This happened to a large degree in Libya.
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EPT
