On September 03 2013 04:38 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:
On September 03 2013 04:33 wei2coolman wrote:
On September 03 2013 04:31 farvacola wrote:
On September 03 2013 04:30 bosnia wrote: Ok so what do those countries have to do with Syria, why do so many countries hate on the states?If you're so smart please explain yourself, the world is not stupid we all see it on tv except not always the truth just what they want us to believe. It's doesn't matter to me at all if you agree with me or not, fact is I actually know what I'm sayin while your just re-posting trying to prove your opinions and not facts. All those countries you just stated are all allies with the states LOL...so why wouldn't they be for intervention?
Answer my second question. If international intervention ends up being air strikes and no boots on the ground, which is the most popular idea at the moment, how does that get the US land?
To be honest the best solution would be to do Cold War puppet gov't after throwing out Assad, but for some reason that seems out of the question, especially considering how Egypt went down.
Oh no, that would be one of the worst possible solutions. We've tried that often in the Mideast. It only got us chaos and worse situations in those countries where it happened. A few examples of the end political product of our interventions is the Islamic Republic in Iran (we overthrew a democracy in Iran to reinstate the very brutal Shah who was logically overthrown, just by the worst possible person), an Islamic government in Libya, and a semi-Islamist Shiite dictatorship in Iraq that's in bed with Iran.
Jordan, Kuwait, Dubai, Saudi Arabia, Oman, there are more countries in the middle east you know, and a lot of them friendly dictatorships with pretty happy people.
And come to think about it, its also a list of countries that listened to their people and changed their countries faced with the protests of the arab spring. Wonder if the connection to the US influenced that.
Friendly dictatorships. Lol. It's almost an oxymoron. But it does paint the sad fact that we could care less how terrible a govt. is (and we've instated some terrible ones in the world ourselves) as long as they are friendly to us. Sad, but it's how things work. Jordan relies on us so much for their very livelihood, they have literally no other choice .
I chuckled a bit at the pretty happy people statement . You are joking, right?
Most people in these countries live like shit in terribly oppressive societies. In UAE, most of the citizens are foreigners who have it pretty bad, especially Indians, Pakistanis, Filipinos, etc., and that place is considered a lot better than the other Gulf countries. Oman though is actually rare. Extremely small population and things are stable since there's really nothing going on. IDK too much about Kuwait, but I haven't heard good things. Jordan is very poor and has lots of issues, especially with the infinite war refugees and Christians from Iraq and Syria.
I don't think it was so much the US influenced that so much as it was that they wanted to keep their seats of power haha. Speaking of which, if the US was involved/influential or put it some real effort, we probably wouldn't have lost Mubarak and Egypt, which was by far one of our most important assets in the Mideast/N. Africa. It was a big loss for us. The only good thing is that at least the Muslim Brotherhood isn't in power, so we may be able to keep some good ties with Egypt, which would have been impossible with Morsi, and in addition, at least we can be assured that the Coptic population won't be exterminated any time soon.
Welllllll, I do believe deep inside that in an ideal world, a selfless, fair, and smart "dictator", who wouldn't be set back by all these politician bullshit, would be the best kind of way to make a country work in the best interest of its people. Of course, since we are talking about humans and power, it would never never never happen.
I'll tell you about UAE next month since I'm going to live there starting October. There were actually a lot of protests in Oman in the past 2 years, don't forget. These countries are mostly stable cause money flows in with oil/gas, and the kings/cheicks/princes/whatever did a better job at spreading that money to the (native) population. Most their governments are working their assets to be able to survive when the oil run out, but it will still be a shock and stir things up after a while, probably.
Translated parts of the French declassified info about Syrian chemical attack "Syria has one of the most important operational stocks of chemical weapons as part of an old and diversified programme that has been the subject of surveillance by the French intelligence services, and those of our principle partners, for a long time. This programme is one of the primary threats in terms of the proliferation of arms of mass destruction.
In July 2012 the spokesperson of the foreign minister confirmed that diffenet weapons (chemical or non conventional) were stocked and secured under the supervision of armed forces.
* Syria has hundred of tonnes of the mustard gas in final form, tens of tonnes of VX. VX is the most toxic of chemical warfare agents. Several hundred tonnes of sarin, which constitute the bulk of the stock.
"The sarin and the VX are partly stocked in a binary form, that is to say kept in the form of two chemical products called precursors, that are mixed just before use. This technique and the associated procedures show a great knowledge of the technology of chemical weapons by the Syrian regime."
"Damascus is capable of delivering its chemical weapons with a very large range of several thousand vectors.
*Scud C missiles, whose range is 500km away. they are capable of carrying mustard gas, sarin or VX.
*Scud B missiles, carrying sarin or VX 300km.
*M600 missiles with a range of 250 to 300km. They can be carry out each of the three aforementioned toxic.
*SS21 missiles adapted to the implementation of the three toxic agents war mentioned, but a smaller range (70 km).
"The chain of command and the responsibilities"
The Syrian Centre for Scientific Research Study (CERS) is responsible for producing toxic agents for use in war, pinpointing "Branch 450" as being responsible for filling munitions with chemicals and also the security of sites where the chemical agents are stocked. This branch, it claims, is "composed only of Alawite military personnel … distinguished by a high level of loyalty to the regime".
"Bashar al-Assad and certain influential members of his clan are the only ones permitted to give the order for the use of chemical weapons. The order is then transmitted to those responsible at the competent branches of the CERS. At the same time, the army chiefs of staff receive the order and decide on targets, the weapons and the toxic agents to put in them."
Chemical attacks already carried out by the Syrian regime
Cases of use of chemical agents by the Syrian regime in attacks against areas held by the opposition for the aim of taking territory or causing terror, have been observed in recent months.
The competent French authorities have recovered biomedical samples (blood, urine), environmental (soil) and materials (ammunition), taken from victims or on the sites of attacks Saraqeb, April 29, 2013, and Jobar to mid-April 2013.
The analyses have confirmed the use of sarin. On April 29, we know that the Syrian regime has led an attack against the Saraqeb town, located 30km south-east of Idlib. A helicopter flew over the city and dropped on the western districts of small ammunition giving white smoke. About twenty people were poisoned and evacuated to hospitals, where medical staff were contaminated.
In mid-April, 40 people were poisoned and evacuated in districts of Damascus, in the town of Jobar. Analysis of samples checked by our services on victims of this attack also confirmed the use of sarin.
A massive and coordinated use of chemical agents against the civilians on August 21
Based on a systematic technical analysis of 47 original videos events of August 21, a first count, neighborhood by neighborhood, at least 281 deaths have been identified. Our own data confirm that in the hospital Duma half victims were women and children and in 50 percent of cases, death was immediate. Doctors deduced that a high concentration of a toxic had been used.
Besides the fact that the victims do not carry body injuries, symptoms were: convulsions, nausea, vomiting, much saliva, dyspnea, choking, loss of consciousness. The clinical signs consistent with poisoning chemicals. Confirmed cases of cross-contamination of personal caregivers have been reported from several sources.
The massive influx of patients in a very short time in different hospitals, the number of victims and from several different sites are characteristics of the effects of an attack using chemical agents with strong lethality, they all confirm that a massive and coordinated attack was conducted in the night of August 21, 2013.
The combined attack of 21 August meets a classic tactical approach (the preparation of an artillery and ground attack) and the use of chemical agents is integrated into a coherent tactical maneuver, a military plan, with the rules of engagement of Syrian forces. Credible intelligence from several partners reports specific preparations on the days before August 21.
Conventional aerial bombing and artillery were used between three and four o'clock in the morning on East Ghouta. At the same time, communities in Zamalka, Kafr Batna and Ain Tarma were affected by chemical attack. At six in the morning, a ground offensive by the regime was launched on these locations.
Several sources have reported the use of different artillery rockets, those of the best known stocked (missiles and bombs) munitions. Our analysis confirms that the remains of rockets observed on this occasion lend themselves to the use of chemical agents.
The regime then conducted major land and air strikes on the areas of attack. It sought to delay the arrival of inspectors for several days. This confirms a clear commitment to the destruction of evidence. In addition, soldiers triggered fires, which presumably were intended to purify the atmosphere through the air movement generated.
Our information confirms that the regime feared an attack of scale by the opposition in Damascus during this period. Our assessment is that the regime sought by this attack to loosen the grip (of the opposition) and secure strategic sites for control of the capital. For example, the district of Moadamiyé is located near the military airport of Mezzeh, which houses the air force’s intelligence services.
On September 03 2013 08:30 Maasked wrote: So it looks as if USA is getting the justification it needs. My problem is that war is very expensive
This really isnt the USA's problem, if its such a big deal, let someone in the middle eastern or at least EU region take care of it T_T
People in the middle east are taking care of it thats why there is the war in the first place Saudi/Qatar vs Iran/Hezbollah/Syria, EU countries barely have militaries so that leaves it to the lone superpower the USA to take care of things.
About the Assad being a dictator thing, remember that the rebels plan on implementing a Christan-free and Allawaite-free Islamic society. They will bring terrible oppression on the losers of this civil war and will do it all under the banner of Sharia law. Assad might be crummy, but these rebels have genocide on the mind.
On September 03 2013 08:52 CannonsNCarriers wrote: About the Assad being a dictator thing, remember that the rebels plan on implementing a Christan-free and Allawaite-free Islamic society. They will bring terrible oppression on the losers of this civil war and will do it all under the banner of Sharia law. Assad might be crummy, but these rebels have genocide on the mind.
I think that forcing Assad to concede and come to the table while remaining at the helm of the government might end up being the best possible outcome.
On September 03 2013 08:52 CannonsNCarriers wrote: About the Assad being a dictator thing, remember that the rebels plan on implementing a Christan-free and Allawaite-free Islamic society. They will bring terrible oppression on the losers of this civil war and will do it all under the banner of Sharia law. Assad might be crummy, but these rebels have genocide on the mind.
Oh dear god you are do damn brainwashed, but i'm not surprised Fox is just doing his thing, Rebels=/=Al Nusra-ISIS, the average rebel is a non extremist muslim that grew on a non muslim dictated country, they don't want Sharia law they want a country similar to Turkey that is democratic so they can get their voices hear of instead of a dictatorship like the one they have been in these last 30 years or so.
On September 03 2013 08:52 CannonsNCarriers wrote: About the Assad being a dictator thing, remember that the rebels plan on implementing a Christan-free and Allawaite-free Islamic society. They will bring terrible oppression on the losers of this civil war and will do it all under the banner of Sharia law. Assad might be crummy, but these rebels have genocide on the mind.
Oh dear god you are do damn brainwashed, but i'm not surprised Fox is just doing his thing, Rebels=/=Al Nusra-ISIS, the average rebel is a non extremist muslim that grew on a non muslim dictated country, they don't want Sharia law they want a country similar to Turkey that is democratic so they can get their voices hear of instead of a dictatorship like the one they have been in these last 30 years or so.
That's what we expected from Egypt. But look how things turned out... :/ I'm not saying that's whats going to happen, but it's a weary possibility. That's probably why Obama's stance is just military action without the goal of regime change.
On September 03 2013 08:52 CannonsNCarriers wrote: About the Assad being a dictator thing, remember that the rebels plan on implementing a Christan-free and Allawaite-free Islamic society. They will bring terrible oppression on the losers of this civil war and will do it all under the banner of Sharia law. Assad might be crummy, but these rebels have genocide on the mind.
I think that forcing Assad to concede and come to the table while remaining at the helm of the government might end up being the best possible outcome.
Pretty much puppet gov't I suggested. Though I wouldn't say its morally right, or permissible, but seems to be the most pragmatic solution.
On September 03 2013 08:52 CannonsNCarriers wrote: About the Assad being a dictator thing, remember that the rebels plan on implementing a Christan-free and Allawaite-free Islamic society. They will bring terrible oppression on the losers of this civil war and will do it all under the banner of Sharia law. Assad might be crummy, but these rebels have genocide on the mind.
Oh dear god you are do damn brainwashed, but i'm not surprised Fox is just doing his thing, Rebels=/=Al Nusra-ISIS, the average rebel is a non extremist muslim that grew on a non muslim dictated country, they don't want Sharia law they want a country similar to Turkey that is democratic so they can get their voices hear of instead of a dictatorship like the one they have been in these last 30 years or so.
The effective rebels are all Islamist minded ones ready to die. Why would you suppose that, upon winning the Syrian civil war, that these guys will lay down and accept a liberal democracy? My understanding of Islamist militants is that they want Islamic states.
yeah USA bringing that imperalist war again. the Kufiyeh is arabic. the resistance is arabic not american nor french (actually the 2 international bigger power who support and promote sionnism via their politics in middle-east). What will happen when this revolution is taken from the people who started it and fought through it by imperialist states? only more trouble will come for the people of syria, for the people of the revolution.
If any intervention, It should be the UN leading it with the accord of the other countries members of the arabic league (even though their situation are also mediocre right now).
On September 03 2013 08:52 CannonsNCarriers wrote: About the Assad being a dictator thing, remember that the rebels plan on implementing a Christan-free and Allawaite-free Islamic society. They will bring terrible oppression on the losers of this civil war and will do it all under the banner of Sharia law. Assad might be crummy, but these rebels have genocide on the mind.
Oh dear god you are do damn brainwashed, but i'm not surprised Fox is just doing his thing, Rebels=/=Al Nusra-ISIS, the average rebel is a non extremist muslim that grew on a non muslim dictated country, they don't want Sharia law they want a country similar to Turkey that is democratic so they can get their voices hear of instead of a dictatorship like the one they have been in these last 30 years or so.
The effective rebels are all Islamist minded ones ready to die. Why would you suppose that, upon winning the Syrian civil war, that these guys will lay down and accept a liberal democracy? My understanding of Islamist militants is that they want Islamic states.
That is correct but it is different to say that FSA wants a Islamic Christian free and Allawaite free state than saying Al-nusra & ISIS wants a Islamic Christian free and Allawaite free state. Most of the FSA wants a democratic sunni government where all or at least most of the different ethnics in syria can have a voice.
As you said Al nusra will not surrender their ideals that easily and probably after this "Assad war" if USA does not support the FSA with personnel and training will come another civilian war between the radical Islamists and the rest of the FSA to fight for who will have the privilege of rebuilding the county and impose their ideals in Syrian' people's minds.
@phanekim i think i posted the link to that earlier, from the original apge, really interesting read. notice how one eyewitness say "huge gas bottle", that doesn't sound like a weapon...
@archangel the un investigation in april/may was inconclusive. one of the investigators said that they suspected the rebels of being responsible. you can find their report in the page i linked earlier.
Complete French declassified info (in French, no complete English translation yet)
High level defection There are unconfirmed reports of a high-level defection from the Assad regime.
The Syria opposition claims that an Alawite officer who leads an "important branch" of the security services, is collaborating with rebels, according to the Arabic news site Aksaler (hat tip to the rspected Syria watcher Joshua Landis points out.
Defection report 1st came from Ahfad al Rassoul media in Southern Damascus, which has changed alignment to Saudi from Qatar. @syriavideonet
— Joshua Landis (@joshua_landis) September 3, 2013 The Syrian online activist, The 47th, is hearing similar rumours.
Exclusive: The Syrian Coalition have just secured a major military defection from Syria. Top ranking officer said to have a LOT of evidence.
EPT
. 
. You are joking, right?
