On July 23 2012 21:30 EpiK wrote: Something I wondered about after watching DKR, was how it would have been different if Heath Ledger hadn't died. I wonder if Nolan would have still incorporated the joker into this movie? If so, it would've been really interesting to see the interaction between the joker and bane. I mean they're both out to get Batman and Gotham but have completely different mindsets: joker being the archetype of chaos and bane being the archetype of wrath. It certainly would've made for a much more complex movie thematically, because as others have said DKR definitely did seem more dumbed down than TDK.
I'm sure Nolan would bring the Joker back, but just for a small part. If the Joker had to be put in for a short scene, he could go in the courtroom scene as the court reporter. I don't have a good idea on how a Joker and Bane conversation would be fit in to the movie, though.
My God this was definitely one of the best movies I've ever seen, and best series overall. Nothing even worth complaining about imo, it was all just put together so masterfully.
I would definitely call the movie brave. The typical Hollywood/comic storyline has the action build to a massive climax where the plan of the bad guys is almost brought to fruition. Close to no one dies as the catastrophe is avoided at the last second. What I enjoyed here is the fact that Bane's plan actually goes through and that Gotham suffers for months, dealing with the realities of the world and how a government might deal with a massive takeover of a major metropolitan area held hostage by a nuclear weapon. The fact that we actually got to see Bane's plan in action made it very exciting for me.
On July 24 2012 15:40 gods_basement wrote: I love batman because supervillian and superhero all have the same justification for their actions. They're all ubermensch, who wish to mold the world to their will. Batman loves his justice, while the joker knows only injustice and chaos. Raz al Ghul shared his love of balance and peace, but just disagreed whether Gotham could be saved. Bane is truly Batman's equal, except his mind and body were crafted from hardship and pain, not privilege. I dunno about scarecrow (i havent read that much batman tbh)
My only wish is that they delved into these worldviews a little more, and painted better the worldviews of these villians, because that was their identity. can anyone recomend any of the batman series that really try to have compelling villians?
The earlier back you go the worse the movies get, so we can't really nominate anything to watch outside of the Nolan trilogy lol.
What? Tim Burtons weren't great but they weren't awful. Definitely better than Batman and Robin.
Agreed. Nicholson's Joker gets outshined by Heath Ledger's, but at the time he was quite good. In the second one, both Catwoman (Michelle Pfeiffer) and Penguin Man (Danny DeVito) were good villains, Catwoman being more like a confused half-villain and both of them having been through some trauma like Batman himself. Burton's movies weren't the huge epic crime-drama blockbusters like Nolan's, they're just smaller scale movies with stronger commitment to a comic-book style, but they were good. (And I dare say Michael Keaton gave Bruce Wayne much more depth than Christian Bale does.) It was Joel Schumacher who drove the series into the ground with his unfathomable garbage.
Cat Womans Ass - 10/10 That fucking Robin bomb out of nowhere - 10/10 subtlety, 12/10 delivery Cat Womans Ass - 10/10 Dat plot twist with bane and the pit - 10/10 Including Ras Al' Ghould - 11/10 Batman still talking in the shitty voice - 4/10 Batman still talking in the shitty voice when everyone knows who he is already - 0/10
YES on Cat Womans Ass And omg YES on the voice when he was with ppl who knew who he was. I would say he shoulda just thrown off is costume but it does have a lot of armor. But still... Stop using that stupid voice... "WHO HAS THE TRIGGER!" << omfg please dont.
He is Batman, not Bruce Wayne, ofc he uses Batman voice.
Why do people need Joker and another dark movie? TDK was GREAT, but TDKR is also GREAT, they are different, not only on vilans but every aspect. It seems to me that people want The Dark Knight 2 rather then this, Joker was great, but i see no place for him in this Batman anymore, get it over with, + Show Spoiler +
Talia is main vilan here, not bane, he just stands behind her, and he was awesome, so was she.
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I watched it tonight, and its one of best movies i ever saw, story is really tense, acting is top and action, effects and camera work are highest level i ever saw.
Standard Hollywood summer action movie. Clunky and pretty boring, no emotional engagement. Fight scenes were particularly bad. Only good scene is when Bane kills Daggett.
On July 25 2012 09:48 Xxio wrote: Standard Hollywood summer action movie. Clunky and pretty boring, no emotional engagement. Fight scenes were particularly bad. Only good scene is when Bane kills Daggett.
What on earth is your definition of a "good" movie??? 0_o MUST KNOW
On July 25 2012 05:59 Demonhunter04 wrote: Wtf I just found out that the guy who plays Bane is the guy who played Eames in Inception - Tom Hardy
The mask, voice changer, and lack of hair changes him so completely.
You just found out ????? @_@
Yeah I never looked before that. I wanted to avoid spoiling anything for myself.
He also played one of the main characters in the romance flick "this means war" with Reese Witherspoon. Completely different, haha. Either way I thought he did a great job as the Bane.
I see a lot of people complaining that Batman didn't die in the end.
Batman did die! That side of Bruce was laid to rest. Gotham needed a true hero, an inspiration to look up to. Bruce was looking to move on with his life, however Batman couldn't just disappear, leaving the city without a fallen hero to look up to. Bruce never told anyone he had fixed the auto pilot because he didn't want anyone to know that Batman had survived. He's the hero Gotham deserves, and the one it got.
I think there is a lot more to the story and the ending than that though. + Show Spoiler +
The entire movie was about him regaining the will to live and move on after losing the woman he loved and everything he dedicated his life to. As Harvey Dent told Wayne in TDK, "You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villian." Having seen himself become the villain, and realizing that he wouldn't physically be able to continue as batman much longer, he knew that the only way he could reestablish the symbol he meant for batman to inspire was through his death.
But having given up on his own life and dreams made him weak. This is what Alfred is talking about throughout the early parts of the movie. When Wayne asks him "Are you afraid I'll fail?" and Alfred says "No, I'm afraid you want to." It's like when someone is just going through the motions at work just for the paycheck rather than putting their heart and soul into it. In this case the pay check would have been the redemption gained by going down fighting against tyranny, and the release from the burdens and responsibilities he carried as batman that had all but destroyed him physically and emotionally.
This last part, about wanting to be free from the burden of batman, is why he feels a connection to Selena Kyle and puts trust in her at the end even though she betrayed him. She wants to start over, escape her past, but she can't. And she copes with this by pretending that she has no compassion or responsibility to anyone or anything. But Bruce Wayne knows this isn't true. Just like he knows that deep down there is a part of him that wants to pass on the job of batman to someone who can carry the torch longer than he can and live out the rest of his life happily rather than becoming a martyr. He and she are opposite sides of the same coin which is why he says "I know there is more to you than that."
It takes the experience in the pit to force him into rekindling his will to live though. Without that primal strength that comes from fighting tooth and nail for your life you have no chance of overcoming the obstacle that blocks your path. Laying aside the safety of that rope holds him to a higher standard: Make the jump or die. And from then on he returns to holding himself to a higher standard as batman as well: Its not ok to just die fighting and be remembered as a hero. He has to find a way to succeed as batman and then go on living for himself.
In the end he is presented with the situation where he can do both. He can let the world see batman sacrifice himself to successfully save gotham, and in doing so free himself from the burden that he has carried as long as he could, and pass it on to a successor who is ready, willing, and capable to carry on the legacy he built as batman.
Personally I would have been much more disappointed if he had died in the end after the personal journey he made throughout the movie. I mean, I think at this point there is nothing novel about the hero dying at the end of the story. We have seen plenty of stories that end with a heroic sacrifice. This ending is perfect to me because it creates finality and closure to the character and the story, while the world I've come to love and everything I've come to love about it still goes on.
You said everything I wanted to perfectly. I think it's much more fitting with the theme of starting anew that Bruce Wayne lives and gets his fresh start than dying as a tragic hero. Furthermore, I don't think I could've handled him dying. I had tears in my eyes as is when I thought he died. T_T
On July 25 2012 09:48 Xxio wrote: Standard Hollywood summer action movie. Clunky and pretty boring, no emotional engagement. Fight scenes were particularly bad. Only good scene is when Bane kills Daggett.
agreed. Average summer blockbuster with some silly plot holes in it. These dark knight movies get so much hype and its hard to understand. Not a bad movie at all, just...not living up to the hype it gets. I was a fan of Memento , but every other Nolan movie I have seen hasn't come close to that .
On July 25 2012 09:48 Xxio wrote: Standard Hollywood summer action movie. Clunky and pretty boring, no emotional engagement. Fight scenes were particularly bad. Only good scene is when Bane kills Daggett.
What on earth is your definition of a "good" movie??? 0_o MUST KNOW
Good movies: Amadeus, Reservoir Dogs, Hunger, Back to the Future Great movies: 3-Iron, Twilight Samurai, 8½, Cool Hand Luke
I enjoyed TDKR, it was fun. Sometimes you just want to watch a Hollywood action/drama flick and that's fine, but it is what it is.
well fuck havent had time to watch do to work, but just scrolling down to see what people liked/didnt and already been plot spoiled majorly from 1 goddamn page.
On July 25 2012 09:48 Xxio wrote: Standard Hollywood summer action movie. Clunky and pretty boring, no emotional engagement. Fight scenes were particularly bad. Only good scene is when Bane kills Daggett.
What on earth is your definition of a "good" movie??? 0_o MUST KNOW
Good movies: Amadeus, Reservoir Dogs, Hunger, Back to the Future Great movies: 3-Iron, Twilight Samurai, 8½, Cool Hand Luke
I enjoyed TDKR, it was fun. Sometimes you just want to watch a Hollywood action/drama flick and that's fine, but it is what it is.
EPT
