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On July 22 2012 15:09 Bigtony wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2012 14:34 Coppermantis wrote:I actually liked Bane's voice and lines. Things like "Now is not the time for fear. That comes later." and "Search him. And then I'll kill you." did a good job of portraying Bane as fairly psychotic but also level-headed and logical. + Show Spoiler [TDKR] + I'm curious why Nolan decided to go with all the Tale of Two Cities references, what with the pseudo-courts persecuting the rich, Gordon's speech at Bruce's funeral being a direct quote from one of Sydney Carton's speeches and one of the people being tried by the "court" being named Stryver. Honestly, the Funeral speech being ripped from Dickens sort of lessened the impact for me.
I think a lot of the stuff was in reference to modern events like #occupy, etc.
That was probably there as well, but it matched the French Revolution more accurately,we're not + Show Spoiler + executing the 1% yet. Also the exact quote from Dickens is a pretty good indicator.
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Dunno why so many ppl are disappointed with Bane's voice. I'm really glad he didn't have a stereotypical deep, gravelly voice. I think his voice fits well with someone who knows several languages and recieved a classical eduction from a Jesuit. Everything about him was aboslutely perfect, especially his mannerisms.
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On July 22 2012 15:18 javy925 wrote: Dunno why so many ppl are disappointed with Bane's voice. I'm really glad he didn't have a stereotypical deep, gravelly voice. I think his voice fits well with someone who knows several languages and recieved a classical eduction from a Jesuit. Everything about him was aboslutely perfect, especially his mannerisms.
This. Bane is supposed to be the evil equivalent of Batman. As strong and smart as the worlds best detective and strategist. Him having a very unqiue and creepy voice fits him perfectly imo.
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I liked the movie but I prefer the second one more. The Dark Knight Rises seemed to move at a fast pace yet the movie took 2 hours and 44 minutes? Still a good movie (though I don't watch movies too often so I can't really compare).
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Really loved this. I think I still enjoy the second one a bit more, but this one was quite good. Well done.
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Amazing stuff really, Bane was horrifying + Show Spoiler + The 5 minutes without music where he broke the bat was absolutely stunning to watch. Batman's recovery in the Pit was handled pretty perfectly, I definitely got goosebumps when he started climbing without the rope. Also for people complaining about his recovery, he didn't have a broken back, he had a protruding disc which takes a few weeks to heal. Really the only criticism that sticks for me is the Talia reveal, seemed a bit unnecessary to the story.
Overall it was amazing.
TDKR>BB>TDK
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Can someone explain the purpose of the first 5 minutes of the film? The airplane part, don't really get the plot.
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On July 22 2012 15:56 furymonkey wrote: Can someone explain the purpose of the first 5 minutes of the film? The airplane part, don't really get the plot.
+ Show Spoiler +The guy on the plane was the nuclear scientist who wrote the paper about turning a fusion reactor into a nuclear weapon. He tried to escape from bane by going w/ the CIA, but Bane ended up on the plane w/ him. He proceeded to draw his blood and leave 1 of his people behind to leave a DNA sample(hence why he was drawing the blood) to convince the world that the scientist was dead. This kidnapped scientist is the guy who later turns the reactor into weapon and gets his neck snapped by bane @ the football stadium.
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On July 22 2012 15:56 furymonkey wrote: Can someone explain the purpose of the first 5 minutes of the film? The airplane part, don't really get the plot.
The man that Bane took is supposed to be a scientist specializing in nuclear physics. He is the only one who can turn Wayne's energy product into a nuclear bomb. I might be getting the details wrong but it's simply...Bane kidnaps the good doctor who can turn the world's best chance at a clean fuel source into a destructive nuclear bomb.
EDIT: lol someone beat me to it
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Bane's voice was quite unclear to me at times, had to pay extra attention and still didn't understand everything he said.
There were a couple of moments where "time transitions" weren't handled that well, eg + Show Spoiler +the sudden jump after batman escapes the pit to when he arrives in the city goes from about 3 weeks to the bomb to holy shit it's tomorrow without any noticeable indication. Plus this moment is also a plot hole in how he gets from the pit to Gotham with no money, no passport, nothing and then how he even gets into gotham itself.
Cat woman was excellent.
Overall, I thought it was really good, edged out only slightly by The Dark Knight.
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On July 22 2012 16:32 NDDseer wrote:Bane's voice was quite unclear to me at times, had to pay extra attention and still didn't understand everything he said. There were a couple of moments where "time transitions" weren't handled that well, eg + Show Spoiler +the sudden jump after batman escapes the pit to when he arrives in the city goes from about 3 weeks to the bomb to holy shit it's tomorrow without any noticeable indication. Plus this moment is also a plot hole in how he gets from the pit to Gotham with no money, no passport, nothing and then how he even gets into gotham itself. Cat woman was excellent. Overall, I thought it was really good, edged out only slightly by The Dark Knight. It's batman man, ur just gonna have to accept the fact that anything is possible.
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I think the best moment of the film ...
+ Show Spoiler +... the moment that validates Nolan and Brady's characterization of Bane, and the power of Batman as a cultural icon and symbol -- is when Bane immediately greets Batman as 'Mr. Wayne.'
It's one thing to see Batman stoic or angry or pissed off as we've seen so often in the previous two films, but there is something disarming and disturbing about seeing Batman's eyes light up with terror and vulnerability.
He's been unmasked, and any power his presence once had is stripped. At that moment everyone in the theatre realizes, "Uh oh. Batman is fucked."
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Kudos to Michael Caine's heartwarming performance.
All the staple cast were great, and I enjoyed Joseph Gordon Levitt's addition.
However... though the movie was a lot of fun, and I enjoyed it, and I recommend going to see it, the movie had problems.
For one (and this is NOT spoilery): Bane's voice is VERY hard to understand. I'm a native English speaker and I missed about 2/5 of everything he said. Back when they released a scene of the movie a couple months ago, people had a hard time understanding him, so they said they would fix it by the time the actual movie was released. Well, they lied.
Also, I feel like there was something off about the pacing. Not that the movie dragged anywhere, not really, but something was off about the dramatic tension that I can't place my finger on, though part of it is the main premise of the plot... + Show Spoiler + Batman Begins
League of Shadows wants to destroy Gotham because Gotham is a crime infested cesspit and Ra's Al Ghul wants to burn the forest down so it can grow again: build up a new city over the ashes of the current Gotham.
Dark Knight Rises
Gotham is doing GREAT! The mob's been put away, and there's so little crime that Blake jokes about going after late library rentals. Batman hasn't been needed in years (Joker is never mentioned) and this is a time of "peace."
But... Talia Al Ghul, at the head of the League of Shadows (which somehow lost its affinity for ninjas, sadly), wants to destroy Gotham... why? Uh, because she's pissed off her daddy died.
Also... the entire put-the-Gotham-people-into-a-horrible-predicament-and-watch-them-kill-themselves was soooo much better done by the Joker. The entire "some people just want to watch the world burn" thing was done well in Dark Knight. In Rises, Bain is just kinda "meh"... he is scary at times, and I love the scene where he breaks Batman's back, but I felt like the final fight with Bane SUCKS, they're just punching at each other senselessly (as opposed to the final fight with Ra's Al Ghul in Batman Begins, where Batman gets to show off a new gadget or two, and the choreography was more interesting, and there was the entire "I won't kill you but I don't have to save you") and then Batman starts yelling in that ridiculous tone (which didn't bother me in ANY of the movies up until that point)
Batman climbing out of the pit was awesome, but I think it was just too late in the movie. He has to surpass ridiculous obstacles but it feels like it's all scrunched up into a ridiculous amount of time (even though it's supposed to be six months, it doesn't feel like it), and his plan to stop the nuke (or the alternate version that he used) was a Terry Pratchett chance in a million
AAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaand lastly... like Harry Potter, Batman should have died. They could have ended it with Alfred's tearful mourning (the saddest thing I've ever seen) and Gordon Levitt's ascension, and it would have been an amazing tragedy... but they had to go Hollywood happy ending with it
And why did Bruce sleep with Talia? That seemed completely random. The two barely know each other, and I know Bruce probably hasn't been laid in forever so he'd jump on any chance he gets with anyone, but why is Talia so willing to sleep with her father's murderer? She hates Bruce with a passion
I know there were ridiculously high expectations for this movie, so it's not a surprise I didn't enjoy it as much as I wanted to, but I came into the movie doubting how well Tom Hardy and Anne Hathaway would deliver their performances... and while they both did great jobs, their characters just weren't outstanding enough. It sucks to have a villain whose face you can't see, and catwoman wasn't quite as catwoman-y as I hoped...
I'm sorry for the rambling rant, but I think the unorganized nature of my complaining sort of reflects how I feel about the movie: I can't figure out where the movie fell short most (besides the Talia's motivation thing). I guess maybe it was "disappointingly clunky, bombastic"...
...but Michael Caine and Gary Oldman and Morgan Freeman and Christian Bale were all amazing, and Comissioner Gordon is the real hero of the series, and I'm grateful to Nolan for the ride
--
OH, I just realized another problem I had
+ Show Spoiler + Bruce's reclusion for seven or eight years.
I didn't even realize I felt this way when I was watching the movie, because I was too busy trying to figure out what was going on, but now I know... I don't believe that Bruce Wayne, Batman, would let himself be a recluse for years.
This is NEVER explained.
Bruce would be sad about losing Rachel, but he'd also be happy that Gotham's doing well, and he would have the spirit to go out and help people more, without the mask of Batman. And if he didn't find that spirit, Alfred would find it for him.
But instead, we start off the movie being greeted by a Batman that's moping around (when he should be busy finding a wifey, I'm with Alfred on this one, pre-Bane) and throughout the first half of the movie I'm wondering if his limp was caused by his back being broken by Bane because Bane has already broken his spirit, and they're going to show us the back breaking scene in a flashback, and for some reason Bane left for years, but now he's back. Or something like that. I was soooo confused... and then I find out that, no, he was just limping from previous injuries (was he injured at the end of Dark Knight? I don't remember him limping), but they never explain why Bruce wasted so many years
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Catwoman was amazing, but the overall flow of the movie was not great. I guess I just didn't like Bane that much or understood what he wanted to accomplish.
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On July 22 2012 15:18 javy925 wrote: Dunno why so many ppl are disappointed with Bane's voice. I'm really glad he didn't have a stereotypical deep, gravelly voice. I think his voice fits well with someone who knows several languages and recieved a classical eduction from a Jesuit. Everything about him was aboslutely perfect, especially his mannerisms.
+ Show Spoiler + TOO HARD TO UNDERSTAND.
Besides that, I agree, his voice was pretty awesome sounding, and Tom Hardy did his mannerisms perfectly. It's... just... so... frustrating... having a villain who's face you can't see, because as expressive as he might have been with his eyes, NOBODY can be expressive enough with just their eyes (Imaging if Heath Ledger had 80% of his face blocked during all of Dark Knight)
Bane was a good villain, to be sure. The Joker's just still too fresh in our minds (Rest in peace, Heath)
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On July 22 2012 15:10 Phant wrote:I guess I am the only one that + Show Spoiler +Saw Robin coming half way through the movie because he was getting so much screen time, but didn't see Talia coming at all.
As for the movie. you guys forget that Bruce was locked up in that prison for 5 months. And perhaps his back wasn't as badly damaged as you guys think. A dislodged bone heals much, much faster than a completely broken one, which sounds like what happened based on how easy it was to set the bone back in. Even then, 3 months is plenty of time to heal a broken bone with an additional 2 months of training.
As for getting back to Gotham, Bruce Wayne may be bankrupt but he still has an impressive amount of resources available to him. It's not like he gets back to Gotham overnight, it could have taken him several days to get back. With 2 hrs and 45 min. jam packed with stuff, how he gets back to Gotham seems like it is unnecesarry.
I thought Bane was an excellent villain and was played really well, I even loved the voice since it gave him a very unique feel, his wardrobe was pretty awesome too, the costume designer for the series is fantastic.
The reason Bruce was able to defeat Bane wasn't because he magically got stronger in the prison, but his mentality was changed significantly. He was overconfident when he fought Bane the first time, ignoring Alfred's warning. His motivation to take down Bane was significantly higher the 2nd fight.
9/10
to be honest i didn't feel he was "over confident" in fact, i felt the opposite that he lost all motivation to be the batman. in the beginning you see the fact he was basically rotting away in his house, he lost all sponsorship for his company / ties and the fact he didn't even attempt to fix his missing cartridge in his knees from his last stint. alfred also states "i'm afraid you want to fail" or something along those lines when he states he was going back to batman. i feel him losing to bane and being placed in the prison was revived motivation and renewal of what he truly values, which is to protect and save lives.
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+ Show Spoiler +On July 21 2012 23:44 flamewheel wrote: The stock market part was ludicrous. Yeah okay, BainBane and company bust the stock market, and obviously tamper with it. Next day, the richest man in the world loses all his money? Yeah okay this is believable.
Ms. Tate--I mean, Talia--was way too predictable. And why bother with the whole "I'm giving this city back to the people" when you're going to blow it up anyway? Attempting to inspire false hope is one thing. Having your plot foiled by Batman when you shouldn't have waited 100+ days is another.
And my biggest gripe... Batman staying alive. The bit about autopilot being fixed "6 months prior [to the invasion of Gotham]" is null in that you see that Batman is piloting the Bat when he's dragging the fusion core out... And how can Batman escape a 6-mile blast radius over open water? Obviously, there's some small escape pod attached to the Bat. Yet when the timer shows 10 seconds and you see Batman still in the cockpit of the Bat? That's one fast escape. I'd have rather Batman stayed dead. We already have the replacement--Mr. "Robin" John Blake, and all the loose ends are tied up regarding Bruce's life. I almost want to go along with the fan theory that Alfred at the end was just hallucinating when he saw Bruce and Selina together. On the stock exchange scene: that was one of those moments that confused me at first, then I figured it would make sense later, and then I forgot about it, and only 'till now did I realize that it never made sense. Completely agree with Talia + Bruce's death
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On July 22 2012 17:51 saocyn wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2012 15:10 Phant wrote:I guess I am the only one that + Show Spoiler +Saw Robin coming half way through the movie because he was getting so much screen time, but didn't see Talia coming at all.
As for the movie. you guys forget that Bruce was locked up in that prison for 5 months. And perhaps his back wasn't as badly damaged as you guys think. A dislodged bone heals much, much faster than a completely broken one, which sounds like what happened based on how easy it was to set the bone back in. Even then, 3 months is plenty of time to heal a broken bone with an additional 2 months of training.
As for getting back to Gotham, Bruce Wayne may be bankrupt but he still has an impressive amount of resources available to him. It's not like he gets back to Gotham overnight, it could have taken him several days to get back. With 2 hrs and 45 min. jam packed with stuff, how he gets back to Gotham seems like it is unnecesarry.
I thought Bane was an excellent villain and was played really well, I even loved the voice since it gave him a very unique feel, his wardrobe was pretty awesome too, the costume designer for the series is fantastic.
The reason Bruce was able to defeat Bane wasn't because he magically got stronger in the prison, but his mentality was changed significantly. He was overconfident when he fought Bane the first time, ignoring Alfred's warning. His motivation to take down Bane was significantly higher the 2nd fight.
9/10 to be honest i didn't feel he was "over confident" in fact, i felt the opposite that he lost all motivation to be the batman. in the beginning you see the fact he was basically rotting away in his house, he lost all sponsorship for his company / ties and the fact he didn't even attempt to fix his missing cartridge in his knees from his last stint. alfred also states "i'm afraid you want to fail" or something along those lines when he states he was going back to batman. i feel him losing to bane and being placed in the prison was revived motivation and renewal of what he truly values, which is to protect and save lives.
Well put. I think when I watch this movie a second time, I'll pick up more on the little things I might've missed during the first viewing. I remember watching TDK a second time, and picking out all the little details Nolan put in the movie.
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On July 22 2012 15:17 Coppermantis wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2012 15:09 Bigtony wrote:On July 22 2012 14:34 Coppermantis wrote:I actually liked Bane's voice and lines. Things like "Now is not the time for fear. That comes later." and "Search him. And then I'll kill you." did a good job of portraying Bane as fairly psychotic but also level-headed and logical. + Show Spoiler [TDKR] + I'm curious why Nolan decided to go with all the Tale of Two Cities references, what with the pseudo-courts persecuting the rich, Gordon's speech at Bruce's funeral being a direct quote from one of Sydney Carton's speeches and one of the people being tried by the "court" being named Stryver. Honestly, the Funeral speech being ripped from Dickens sort of lessened the impact for me.
I think a lot of the stuff was in reference to modern events like #occupy, etc. That was probably there as well, but it matched the French Revolution more accurately,we're not + Show Spoiler + executing the 1% yet. Also the exact quote from Dickens is a pretty good indicator.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Knight_Rises
Nolan has however denied the film criticizes the Occupy movement and insists that none of his Batman films are intended to be political: "I've had as many conversations with people who have seen the film the other way round. We throw a lot of things against the wall to see if it sticks. We put a lot of interesting questions in the air, but that's simply a backdrop for the story. What we're really trying to do is show the cracks of society, show the conflicts that somebody would try to wedge open. We're going to get wildly different interpretations of what the film is supporting and not supporting, but it's not doing any of those things. It's just telling a story. If you're saying, “Have you made a film that's supposed to be criticizing the Occupy Wall Street movement?” – well, obviously, that's not true." (http://www.rollingstone.com/movies/news/christopher-nolan-dark-knight-rises-isn-t-political-20120720)
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