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On February 27 2012 19:48 Crushinator wrote:
Though it is not as glamorous as a any single indicidual mentioned in the thread, the Prussian General Staff as an institution has to be mentioned when it comes to military leadership. Though politically incompetent, the military excellence of the Prussian General Staff is undeniable. German organisational efficiency at its finest.
Dunno about politically incompetent. Wasn't Bismarck a master politician?
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Bismarck was no military staff. He was a noble from the countryside
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Major General Smedley Darlington Butler.
Just one of dozens of great Military leaders you have never heard of. Scroll down to the Bonus Army section and your opinion of General Douglas MacArthur may change.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smedley_Butler
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On February 27 2012 20:04 Euronyme wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 19:48 Crushinator wrote:
Though it is not as glamorous as a any single indicidual mentioned in the thread, the Prussian General Staff as an institution has to be mentioned when it comes to military leadership. Though politically incompetent, the military excellence of the Prussian General Staff is undeniable. German organisational efficiency at its finest. Dunno about politically incompetent. Wasn't Bismarck a master politician?
Though you did correctly identify Bismarck as a Prussian, you seem to have failed to consider the fact that not all Prussians are military officers. Bismark was indeed a master politician and statesman, and as such he was not in the military.
*shakes head in disbelief*
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On February 26 2012 13:47 screamingpalm wrote:
Wellington (Wellesley) got a mention, but I would argue that much of the success he enjoyed was due to the reforms made by Sir John Moore. Wellington was a decent commander in his own way, but not as versatile and more specialized in defensive tactics using the terrain to his advantage.
Where on earth do you get such mis-information?
Is it because Wellington liked to station his troops on the reverse slopes of hills so as to not incur greater casualties from artillery (this seems to me a sensible thing to do)?
Ever heard of the battles of Assaye (i'll help you out, a force of under 10,000 attacked and defeated the Maratha army of 60,000) or Aragum or the storming of Gawilghur?
Now lets look at the Peninsular war (the following is a list of major battles commanded by the Duke of Wellington):
Rolicia - attacked
Vimeiro - defended
Douro - attacked
Talevera - defended (only because Cuesta decided not to attack, like Wellington wanted to, allowed the french to get away, then pursued, ran head long into the entire french army and then retreated)
Bussaco - defended
Retreaded behind the lines of Torres Vedras.
Pombal - attacked
Redinha - attacked
Fuentes de Oñoro - defended
Ciudad Rodrigo - assaulted
Badajoz - assaulted
Salamanca - attacked (as the saying goes 40 minutes to destroy 40 000 men)
Burgos - assaulted (failed)
Vitoria - attacked
San Sebastian - assaulted
Bidassoa - attacked
Nivelle - attacked
Garris - attacked
Toulouse - assaulted
And so concludes the Peninsular war. As you can see you are officially retarded and shouldn't post things that are completely and utterly false.
Reading threads like this make me depressed.
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On February 27 2012 20:58 Crushinator wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 20:04 Euronyme wrote:On February 27 2012 19:48 Crushinator wrote:
Though it is not as glamorous as a any single indicidual mentioned in the thread, the Prussian General Staff as an institution has to be mentioned when it comes to military leadership. Though politically incompetent, the military excellence of the Prussian General Staff is undeniable. German organisational efficiency at its finest. Dunno about politically incompetent. Wasn't Bismarck a master politician? Though you did correctly identify Bismarck as a Prussian, you seem to have failed to consider the fact that not all Prussians are military officers. Bismark was indeed a master politician and statesman, and as such he was not in the military. *shakes head in disbelief*
well it's not really surprising someone gets the impression that every prussian politician was also in the military. It was very common after all that the prussian nobility was also military officers. Family played and still plays a big role in what jobs the children will get later and Prussia had a big line of families that were purely made up of military officers.
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On February 27 2012 21:06 Skilledblob wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 20:58 Crushinator wrote:On February 27 2012 20:04 Euronyme wrote:On February 27 2012 19:48 Crushinator wrote:
Though it is not as glamorous as a any single indicidual mentioned in the thread, the Prussian General Staff as an institution has to be mentioned when it comes to military leadership. Though politically incompetent, the military excellence of the Prussian General Staff is undeniable. German organisational efficiency at its finest. Dunno about politically incompetent. Wasn't Bismarck a master politician? Though you did correctly identify Bismarck as a Prussian, you seem to have failed to consider the fact that not all Prussians are military officers. Bismark was indeed a master politician and statesman, and as such he was not in the military. *shakes head in disbelief* well it's not really surprising someone gets the impression that every prussian politician was also in the military. It was very common after all that the prussian nobility was also military officers. Family played and still plays a big role in what jobs the children will get later and Prussia had a big line of families that were purely made up of military officers.
Nobility does not equal an involvement in politics. Politicians (civilian positions) were never part of the General Staff. It was a purely military organisation. Though family heritage may have played a part in the initial apointment as an army officer, admission to the general staff was very much a matter of proven competence in both the field and military academics.Though officers might have retired to political positions after their time in the military, I highly doubt it was common to hold both military and civilian positions simultaneously.
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Belgium9945 Posts
On February 26 2012 17:19 cydial wrote:I can't believe none of you circle jerking peasants mentioned the greatest Military Leader in the history of recorded civilization. Let me tell you about a man named Admiral Mother Fucking Adama. ![[image loading]](http://pppsr.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/william_adama.jpeg) Forget the Battle of Salamis, Battle of Leyte Gulf, or some other junk you've heard of as "Great Battles". This mother fucker lead a single Battlestar against an entire fleet of these pieces of shit while he baited them on a wild goose chase throughout the galaxy. ![[image loading]](http://www.lold.org/uploads/2011/03/sci-fi-battlestar-galactica-wallpaper-base-star.jpg) Now there are those that may say, "Cydial you are so full of shit Adama was being chased, he wasn't baiting them." I have to disagree as facts say otherwise. You thought Pearl Harbor was bad? Unlike Pearl Harbor, when shit went down at the human ship yards, then the homeworlds, and the Cylon invasion was in full swing, THERE WAS NO PEARL HARBOR OR AMERICA LEFT TO RETURN TO OR LAUNCH A COUNTER ATTACK FROM. Admiral Mother Fucking Adama however, didn't give a flying shit. You thought the battle of Midway, Hitler's Blitzkrieg, the battle of Gettysburg, or some other boring bullshit battle was brilliant in its execution or planning? Wrong. No wonder a bunch of herps are able to derp at us from caves with shit from hardware stores and weapons that can be made in a god damn basement. They are teaching our military leaders battles like Waterloo, Vienna, Antietam, Yorktown, and a bunch of other bronze level shit. Let me introduce to you, The Battle of New Caprica Not only did he co-ordinate with ground forces for a duel pronged attack which would culminate in fleet + infantry battle by himself as an Admiral. He simultaneously evacuated tens of thousands of stranded civilians while he was at it. Not only that, but he brilliantly out manuevers the fuck out of the Cylon fleet by splitting their forces through deception by way of false EM signatures emitted by drones, to get his fighers to support the ground forces on New Caprica he launches his fighters while his Battlestar is falling through the fucking atmosphere of the planet he is attempting to liberate. Then he activates the FTL drive inside the atmosphere to peace the fuck out and engage the Cylon fleet in space. Top gun has nothing on this.![[image loading]](http://elliottback.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2006/10/bsg-jump-01.jpg) The only lose suffered by the Terrans was some random ship that showed up and promptly got blown the fuck up by the Cylon fleet however, this was something that was out of Admiral Adama's control as noobs never listen. All in all this was the most insane fucking thing to ever happen in the history of Warfare.
Can't believe no one replied to this
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On February 15 2011 13:58 Biggo wrote:
No love for Sun Tzu?
Still hugely influential today, studied by many of the generals already listed above.
yup, he is definitely the master of war.
Quite a lot of his tactics can be applied to SC2 as well, especially the one that I recently experienced:
"don't push a person too hard, or you will be facing a man fighting with everything he has"
There are quite a few books on it that is applied to stock market as well.
At those ancient times, the battle in China had at least 10k men per battle each side easily, you can imagine how difficult it is to managed that amount of soldiers
the funny thing is that he himself didn't like war, he thinks that it is too resource consuming, thus he prefers to win without having to kill the enemies, usually promote other ways to win battles such as completely crushing the opponent's moral
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On February 27 2012 21:42 Crushinator wrote:
Nobility does not equal an involvement in politics. Politicians (civilian positions) were never part of the General Staff. It was a purely military organisation. Though family heritage may have played a part in the initial apointment as an army officer, admission to the general staff was very much a matter of proven competence in both the field and military academics.Though officers might have retired to political positions after their time in the military, I highly doubt it was common to hold both military and civilian positions simultaneously.
well in a kingdom the nobility makes the politics so they were involved. And prussian officers had to be nobles for quite a long time. Though ofcourse later on the appointment to higher positions was based on military achievements the initial requirement to become an officer was being of noble heritage for a long time.
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On February 27 2012 21:54 Skilledblob wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 21:42 Crushinator wrote:
Nobility does not equal an involvement in politics. Politicians (civilian positions) were never part of the General Staff. It was a purely military organisation. Though family heritage may have played a part in the initial apointment as an army officer, admission to the general staff was very much a matter of proven competence in both the field and military academics.Though officers might have retired to political positions after their time in the military, I highly doubt it was common to hold both military and civilian positions simultaneously. well in a kingdom the nobility makes the politics so they were involved. And prussian officers had to be nobles for quite a long time. Though ofcourse later on the appointment to higher positions was based on military achievements the initial requirement to become an officer was being of noble heritage for a long time.
You do not seem to have a solid grasp of basic logic so here is a lesson for you:
Premise 1: All politicians are nobles.
Premise 2: All officers are nobles.
Premise 3: Bismarck is a noble.
Can we deduce that Bismarck is a politician? No, though all politicians are nobles not all nobles are politicians. Can we deduce that Bismarck an officer? No, though all officers are nobles, not all nobles are officers. Can we deduce that Bismarck is either an officer OR a politician? Again, no.
Add two more premises:
Premise 4: Politicians are not officers.
Premise 5: Bismarck is a politician.
We can now deduce that Bismarck is not an officer.
You're welcome.
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you should get that hot air out of your head it might help reading what people write.
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On February 27 2012 22:23 Skilledblob wrote:
wasnt trying to prove that every prussian politician was in the military but thanks for showing that you are an idiot.
you're welcome
What exactly am I thanking you for?
EDIT: Editing your post 4 times, does make this hard.
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On February 26 2012 17:19 cydial wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I can't believe none of you circle jerking peasants mentioned the greatest Military Leader in the history of recorded civilization. Let me tell you about a man named Admiral Mother Fucking Adama. Forget the Battle of Salamis, Battle of Leyte Gulf, or some other junk you've heard of as "Great Battles". This mother fucker lead a single Battlestar against an entire fleet of these pieces of shit while he baited them on a wild goose chase throughout the galaxy. Now there are those that may say, "Cydial you are so full of shit Adama was being chased, he wasn't baiting them." I have to disagree as facts say otherwise. You thought Pearl Harbor was bad? Unlike Pearl Harbor, when shit went down at the human ship yards, then the homeworlds, and the Cylon invasion was in full swing, THERE WAS NO PEARL HARBOR OR AMERICA LEFT TO RETURN TO OR LAUNCH A COUNTER ATTACK FROM. Admiral Mother Fucking Adama however, didn't give a flying shit. You thought the battle of Midway, Hitler's Blitzkrieg, the battle of Gettysburg, or some other boring bullshit battle was brilliant in its execution or planning? Wrong. No wonder a bunch of herps are able to derp at us from caves with shit from hardware stores and weapons that can be made in a god damn basement. They are teaching our military leaders battles like Waterloo, Vienna, Antietam, Yorktown, and a bunch of other bronze level shit. Let me introduce to you, The Battle of New Caprica Not only did he co-ordinate with ground forces for a duel pronged attack which would culminate in fleet + infantry battle by himself as an Admiral. He simultaneously evacuated tens of thousands of stranded civilians while he was at it. Not only that, but he brilliantly out manuevers the fuck out of the Cylon fleet by splitting their forces through deception by way of false EM signatures emitted by drones, to get his fighers to support the ground forces on New Caprica he launches his fighters while his Battlestar is falling through the fucking atmosphere of the planet he is attempting to liberate. Then he activates the FTL drive inside the atmosphere to peace the fuck out and engage the Cylon fleet in space. Top gun has nothing on this.The only lose suffered by the Terrans was some random ship that showed up and promptly got blown the fuck up by the Cylon fleet however, this was something that was out of Admiral Adama's control as noobs never listen. All in all this was the most insane fucking thing to ever happen in the history of Warfare.
Haha good read. I was wondering if anyone would mention the old man.
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On February 27 2012 21:48 RaGe wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2012 17:19 cydial wrote:I can't believe none of you circle jerking peasants mentioned the greatest Military Leader in the history of recorded civilization. Let me tell you about a man named Admiral Mother Fucking Adama. Forget the Battle of Salamis, Battle of Leyte Gulf, or some other junk you've heard of as "Great Battles". This mother fucker lead a single Battlestar against an entire fleet of these pieces of shit while he baited them on a wild goose chase throughout the galaxy. Now there are those that may say, "Cydial you are so full of shit Adama was being chased, he wasn't baiting them." I have to disagree as facts say otherwise. You thought Pearl Harbor was bad? Unlike Pearl Harbor, when shit went down at the human ship yards, then the homeworlds, and the Cylon invasion was in full swing, THERE WAS NO PEARL HARBOR OR AMERICA LEFT TO RETURN TO OR LAUNCH A COUNTER ATTACK FROM. Admiral Mother Fucking Adama however, didn't give a flying shit. You thought the battle of Midway, Hitler's Blitzkrieg, the battle of Gettysburg, or some other boring bullshit battle was brilliant in its execution or planning? Wrong. No wonder a bunch of herps are able to derp at us from caves with shit from hardware stores and weapons that can be made in a god damn basement. They are teaching our military leaders battles like Waterloo, Vienna, Antietam, Yorktown, and a bunch of other bronze level shit. Let me introduce to you, The Battle of New Caprica Not only did he co-ordinate with ground forces for a duel pronged attack which would culminate in fleet + infantry battle by himself as an Admiral. He simultaneously evacuated tens of thousands of stranded civilians while he was at it. Not only that, but he brilliantly out manuevers the fuck out of the Cylon fleet by splitting their forces through deception by way of false EM signatures emitted by drones, to get his fighers to support the ground forces on New Caprica he launches his fighters while his Battlestar is falling through the fucking atmosphere of the planet he is attempting to liberate. Then he activates the FTL drive inside the atmosphere to peace the fuck out and engage the Cylon fleet in space. Top gun has nothing on this.The only lose suffered by the Terrans was some random ship that showed up and promptly got blown the fuck up by the Cylon fleet however, this was something that was out of Admiral Adama's control as noobs never listen. All in all this was the most insane fucking thing to ever happen in the history of Warfare. Can't believe no one replied to this
Like Adama and his ancestor the honey badger, I don't give a shit.
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![[image loading]](http://killinglincolnthebook.com/images/mugshots/powell-large.jpg)
Not a leader per-say. But Lewis Powell was a real standup guy, and did what he thought was right at the time.
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We can't never reach an agreement for who is the greatest military leader at our time, let alone of all time. We all have difference social background, national proud and things like that effect one's judgement alot.
Some mention Gerenal Giap of Vietnam in this thread but I am as a Vietnamese, don't agree with them. My choice would be Tran Hung Dao http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tran_Hung_Dao
He beat the Mongol when they were dominated the world 3 times in a row!! He also show great loyalty since with his military power he could easily oust the Emperor and be an Emperor himself but just denied to do so.
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EPT
