EPTIn the end it's up to the kid's personality and intelligence. If the whole world had strict Asian mothers there will only be doctors and lawyers that keep on backstabbing either other to get ahead of the competition while their moms ask them why they are not number one. Hey I can over-generalize and write a retarded article too.
Article: "Why Chinese mothers are superior." - Page 17
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bubblegumbo
Taiwan1296 Posts
In the end it's up to the kid's personality and intelligence. If the whole world had strict Asian mothers there will only be doctors and lawyers that keep on backstabbing either other to get ahead of the competition while their moms ask them why they are not number one. Hey I can over-generalize and write a retarded article too. | ||
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lIlIlIlIlIlI
Korea (South)3851 Posts
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Half
United States2554 Posts
I can't believe a Yale professor is stupid enough to write something like this backed up with no proper research. Sounds like shes just trying to convince herself, people have a tendency to do that. I can only imagine how much one would need to feel that a only barely six figure job as a Yale Professor was worth giving up the entirety of ones childhood and young adult interests and friends for. Especially when most of her superiors on the college board, whom she calls boss, likely gained their position not just through hard work, but through the invaluable acquaintances and connections they developed precisely during there young adulthood. | ||
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Whiladan
United States463 Posts
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Piledriver
United States1697 Posts
The difference is, the asian child is more likely to drop out early due to the pressure, or commit suicide, or be socially inept and chronically unfulfilled Are you fucking serious? Are you implying that fulfillment and social aptitude are gained only through partying with girls and doing drugs/alcohol at an early age and neglecting your schoolwork, and not by focusing on education? Wow..seriously, I don't even know where to begin. I was about to go off on a rant, but realized that there is no point arguing against stereotypical mindsets. | ||
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Asjo
Denmark664 Posts
The cultural and psychological aspects of this are very interesting. I myself am personally or the mentality that you need to teach kids how to live, not how to comform to society. However, in regards to the upbringing of your children, there definitely are some interesting trends to address. While being both creative, imaginative and intelligent, I am still not able to carry out the things I want to do. Even simple tasks can become a heavy burden when I simply don't have the self-discipline to get them done. I'm part, I attribute this to the input-heavy influence I have from my extensive use of computers since I was young, but I think it's also about how I've been allowed to be self-indulgent and never really thought highly of achievement and duty. So, if I have to do a paper for my university, I will procrastinate, build up a lot of negative energy about it, and do it at the last moment. If I set out to do a creative project of sorts, I will only work on it in inspired bursts and often not see it through. I see many others displaying around me displaying similar behaviour, although often to a lesser degree, and I'm wondering whether it might become a "decease", at least to the extent that it will become normal that people display a degree of ADHD. An essential point is that human beings are very instinctual. If they feel comfortable and do not feel strongly about doing something, be it out of duty of in the interest of self-development, they won't, or at least will try to do it as little as possible. If they don't have ambition, discipline, a sense of duty or other personal drivers, they will easily sink into a hole of self-indulgence. You will not be happy and you will not contribute to society as much as you would otherwise be able to. And this is where it's very useful to train people to relate differently to things from a young age. Of course, this really takes offset in my own life story. Many things have come together to make me the person I am today. I'm 26, and I feel that there are some things I really need to work with and that, to some extent, they are limiting my happiness because they affect both my self-realization and my social interactions. And it is no doubt harder to deal with these things at my age than it would be for me to have gotten past these obstacles as a child. However, at the same time, I feel that I'm much better at being happy and just "living life" than many other people. I'm able to frequently get a big experience from small things, I am capable of harbouring strong feelings, I truly enjoy all my interaction with other people, whenever I do any task I enjoy myself (even if I dread it and procrastinate before I start), I'm able to engage in whatever I do and make it personal, and even in moments of great doubt, I'm am able to focus on the the positives and never think of life in black and white essentialism. Again, many of these things cannot simply be attributed to my upbringing, but I have noticed many things that I can trace back. I am so happy that I was able to get the space to develop myself as a child and that I was brought up in a home that valued warm human interaction with focus on feeling rather than the function of things. In life we go through a series of processes, and to be happy I think it's important that we are able to feel comfortable or enjoy these processes, rather than only to enjoy the goal we reach at the end of them. Still, it once again comes down to feelings and how we learn to associate these with experiences in life. I would say that if you once focus on "the doing" and become talented and successful, but at the same time are disconnected from your feelings, then what's the point? All the talent and success in the world won't help you become a better or happier human being, which would appear to be the essence of human life - for it not to be empty (if you take a common measure of meaning in today's society). However, other people might simply associate different feelings to the interaction and the tasks they are doing in cultures where this "Chinese mother" upbringing is prevalent. One situation that really brought contrasts in education and upbringing into focus was when we were doing an exercise in one of our classes in my Master's Degree. It was about social networks and migration, and we were told to draw diagrams of which people we would relate to in our daily life, in what spheres, and through which means of communication. Some people were a bit confused as to how they would suppose to do it, asked questions and didn't show much initiative. Most people had drawn ugly brain-storming maps, not really dealing with the fact that they have to graphically represent three different elements. What they put down was very basic and they were only really working with the very basis of the task. Due to how they made their maps, the different things they put in them weren't very well connected, and in the end, the presentations and talk about them wasn't very useful. Then this Chinese exchange student in class showed hers, and she had done one with multiple layers of circles, divided by lines and drawn with different patterns of colouring. She had managed to combine all the relevant dimensions and give a coherent presentation of them. In the end, the way she did it gave a much more complex understanding of how the different spheres, social contexts and means of communication affected each other. To be honest, I think people were a bit baffled. I didn't really want to be impressed and I thought that, after all, it was a simple thing, and was just a matter of how you work. Anyone could do it that way if they wanted, I told myself. However, the truth is that there is an important difference; the way this girl took the tasks seriously and the way she related to it. It was obviously second nature to her and didn't necessarily require more effort. But because she was used to thinking along these lines, engaging in the work and thinking more critically, she was able to do this and everyone was the better for it. Meanwhile, I'm sure that most of my class-mates wouldn't have bothered to take that step, even if they would have enjoyed working with the task in a more serious and elaborate manner. To put this into perspective, I had done my model in a yellow colour that was pretty much invisible when seen through the overhead projector. I wasn't fully finished when we had to stop and I didn't formulate myself properly when presenting it, not really getting into any kind of depth. My mind had been elsewhere doing elsewhat  | ||
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Half
United States2554 Posts
Are you fucking serious? Are you implying that fulfillment and social aptitude are gained only through partying with girls and doing drugs/alcohol at an early age and neglecting your schoolwork, and not by focusing on education? Are you implying that there isn't a level of socialization between constant partying, and I quote never being allowed to • attend a sleepover • have a playdate • be in a school play | ||
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MrMoist
United States72 Posts
However, stripping your daughter of her free will is something you should not be proud of. I've seen way too many friends (3.8+ GPA, 2200+ SAT) end up going to college and getting wasted every day. Apparently it's to make up for her lack of childhood, which is quite sad. Also, those Asian girls end up marrying white men. Another reason why Asian fever works one direction. | ||
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theSAiNT
United States726 Posts
The article explicitly states that she is highlighting cultural differences and that the term 'Chinese mothers' is not racial. To those people getting worked up about racism: get a grip. | ||
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Golgotha
Korea (South)8418 Posts
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Lightwip
United States5497 Posts
The one Asian I know with parents like that is very gun-obsessed and racist, and resents his parents, pretty much looking for any possible excuse not to come home. Hardly something healthy. That story about the piano was especially awful. After reading this, I'm really not so surprised why so many Asian youth give up their chance to do anything good in life and turn into game addicts. Many people just can't really go as far as their parents want them to. If you read Boxer's bio, it really does kinda show how it happens. | ||
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iSTime
1579 Posts
On January 10 2011 04:09 Half wrote: Are you implying that there isn't a level of socialization between constant partying, and I quote People defending the author should reread this post. So many people are saying things along the lines of "What's so wrong with wanting your child to be the best in school?" or "Yeah, there's no way you can be socialized without partying and doing drugs" etc. But how the hell can you have a social life if you only get to socialize in school, never get to participate in any activities with friends, and so on. Not to mention the fact that theater is just as important an art as music (though, not being a part of theater probably will decrease the chance that your child has lots of sex and does lots of drugs, so this one's almost acceptable if you're puritanical). | ||
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MforWW
United States157 Posts
Sorry, but the "learning should be fun" culture has seen its zenith. In today's global economy, you're competing with EVERYONE IN THE WORLD who wants a job. You know who gets the best jobs? Just like in every other competition that ever existed: the people who want it more and prove it by trying harder. (I'm white by the way) Asian parents simply push their kids to work harder in school, and frankly, it pays off. I would think that's obvious, but apparently not. The fact of the matter is that 1) you can't convince most teenagers that they should want to learn and try really hard because it's rewarding... kids almost ALWAYS don't care about rewards unless they are immediate, nor can they understand the value of succeeding in school from a young age. 2) but you CAN let them know they better get A's or they'll get their ass kicked (metaphorically... i.e. threatening grounding, forced yardwork/cleaning, etc.). kids respond to that pressure... i know i did. I'm convinced that 100% of people with an IQ over 95 can attain A's in all highschool courses if they put in the requisite amount of individual effort required. Obviously, for the really stupid kids, that might mean it's a full-time sunrise to sunset job, but it's possible. Again, it's just a matter of who wants it more. Apparently the "Chinese mothers" want it more, and no doubt is it effective in getting results. | ||
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crazeman
664 Posts
I feel like all those restrictions would make you a socially inept when you get out in the real world. I'm Chinese and I'd say most of the chinese people (including myself) that I know are inferior to other people in terms of socializing. This might affect her kids less though because they are 2nd generation americans with educated parents, a american father and presumably live in a rich 'white' neighborhood. I really hate how she categorize "success" to playing the piano/violin well. I guess her kids would be complete failures if they became the mozart of playing the guitar or something. Honestly every kid react to parenting differently and she lucked out in the sense that her kids wasn't the rebellious type and didn't disobey her. When I was a kid and my parents were going all "Chinese parenting" on me, I rebelled and would have none of it at some point. They would literally beat me, throw out my computer, lock me in a room with nothing but a desk with my homework in it, not give me any food/dinner (think I went like 2 days without food), and I'd just literally sit there and refuse to do it. I mean what else can a parent do short of literally starving/killing their kid if they absolutely refuse to? If "Chinese parenting" was so great, then shouldn't every kid in China get straight As with 0 "delinquents" children? This is a horrible thing to say, but secretly I want her to give birth to one more kid and have that kid be horribly fucked up by her methods. | ||
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MforWW
United States157 Posts
I've seen far too many smart enough kids drop out of highschool and fuck up college. It was never for a lack of ability, it was for a lack of desire. And kids such at self-motivating. As a parent, it's your job to let your kid know that there are extremely undesirable consequences for not succeeding in academics. By the time they get to college, if you did it right, the kids will practically work hard out of habit, and a couple years after that, they'll understand why their parents pushed them. | ||
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MforWW
United States157 Posts
The whole argument "if you oppress your kid when they're little, they go CRAZY when they go to college!" is totallllll bullshit. I've known a ton of kids that were "oppressed" by their parents, and while they loosened up a lot, they still NEVER became fuckups, or even close to it. This whole argument is based on some sort of urban legend. It's just not true. | ||
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Scap
United States60 Posts
On a related note, I plan on going to graduate school for Chemistry (Gotten into one already, *fist pump!*), so I'm competing with many of these "Asian style" raised kids. One thing I've found, from a combination of experience and hearsay (nothing empirical, sorry), is that, on average, Asian students test INCREDIBLY well (hence why 50% or higher on the chem GRE for domestic students is considered good), but have poor creativity in making new projects and solving current problems. Furthermore, they tend to learn only one subsection of chemistry, so when they go to graduate school, where most research tends to have overlapping areas, they are very behind. Also their presentation skills tend to be poorer. What I think I'm attempting to say is I don't think 100% academically focused upbringing is the best idea. Similarly, a complete disregard for academic performance is also not a good idea. I do think a heavy focus on academics is important, but so is focusing on the development of social skills, such as expressing oneself and interacting with other people (maybe something like 75% academics 25% social, things like that). Encouraging them to solve problems creatively is also something I would focus on, as well as making them understand that learning something new is a reward in and of itself. | ||
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Navane
Netherlands2748 Posts
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Lennon
United Kingdom2275 Posts
On January 10 2011 05:10 Scap wrote: I'm not sure how I feel about this. I'm just your average white guy in Chemistry at some non-descript undergrad university. That motivation did not come from my parents, however, that entirely came from within. My mother was strict with me, e.g. punishments for the almost insignificant offences, until I was 16 and then she let me make most of the decisions. I didn't need motivation to study hard; I found that within myself as you said. Although, because there's obviously a strong relationship between motivation and success, most children aren't going to find that motivation within themselves without encouragement from parents. | ||
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mahnini
United States6862 Posts
On January 10 2011 04:48 MforWW wrote: LMAO @ all of the people rejecting this article as nonsense simply because they don't want it to be true. Sorry, but the "learning should be fun" culture has seen its zenith. In today's global economy, you're competing with EVERYONE IN THE WORLD who wants a job. You know who gets the best jobs? Just like in every other competition that ever existed: the people who want it more and prove it by trying harder. (I'm white by the way) Asian parents simply push their kids to work harder in school, and frankly, it pays off. I would think that's obvious, but apparently not. The fact of the matter is that 1) you can't convince most teenagers that they should want to learn and try really hard because it's rewarding... kids almost ALWAYS don't care about rewards unless they are immediate, nor can they understand the value of succeeding in school from a young age. 2) but you CAN let them know they better get A's or they'll get their ass kicked (metaphorically... i.e. threatening grounding, forced yardwork/cleaning, etc.). kids respond to that pressure... i know i did. I'm convinced that 100% of people with an IQ over 95 can attain A's in all highschool courses if they put in the requisite amount of individual effort required. Obviously, for the really stupid kids, that might mean it's a full-time sunrise to sunset job, but it's possible. Again, it's just a matter of who wants it more. Apparently the "Chinese mothers" want it more, and no doubt is it effective in getting results. ![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/yWyJR.jpg) being mechanically proficient is not enough. the highest paying jobs in any field is management. management requires social skills and critical / abstract thinking. you can't grind your way into upper management by reading books or practicing drills. asian parents don't realize it but they are setting their children up for a life of mediocrity because they are not arming them with the skills it takes to go beyond mid-level employee. sure, you can live comfortably, but i'd like to think people live with more drive and purpose in mind other than grind school, grind work, and die. at the end of the day the highest you can go is only as high as a worker is allowed to unless you develop a different, more diverse, skill set. | ||
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