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Active: 2057 users

San Fran May Propose Banning Circumcision

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Krigwin
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
1130 Posts
November 29 2010 03:53 GMT
#1
http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/19/male.circumcision.sf/index.html

+ Show Spoiler +
(CNN) -- In the California city that banned Happy Meal toys,outlawed sitting on sidewalks during daylight hours and fined residents for not sorting garbage into recycling, compost and trash, Lloyd Schofield wants to add a new law to the books in San Francisco: A ban on all male circumcisions.

Those who violate the ban could be jailed (not more than one year) or fined (not more than $1,000), under his proposal. Circumcisions even for religious reasons would not be allowed. At this point, Schofield's proposal is an idea that would have to clear several hurdles to be considered.

Schofield and like-minded advocates who call themselves "intactivists" seek to make it "unlawful to circumcise, excise, cut, or mutilate the whole or any part of the foreskin, testicles, or penis" of anyone 17 or younger in San Francisco.

The circumcision debate has passionate advocates on each side.

Your thoughts on circumcision

In some families, it's a cultural or religious tradition, or parents want sons to look like their fathers. Other parents decry it as mutilation. Medical evidence has shown mixed risks and benefits. Apart from the San Francisco proposal, circumcisions are under scientific scrutiny.

While widespread in the United States, circumcision rates could be falling, according to recent surveys. About 65 percent of American male infants born in hospitals were circumcised in 1999, according to latest data available from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

While nationally the circumcision rate has remained steady, the most dramatic decline occurred in the West, where it fell from 64 percent in 1974 to 37 percent in 1999. Earlier this year, there were unconfirmed estimates that the circumcision rate had fallen to fewer than half for boys born in U.S. hospitals, The New York Times reported last summer, citing a federal report at the International AIDS Conference.

The American Academy of Pediatrics task force on circumcision has been reviewing recent research before it issues an official new position on the issue, probably next year, one panel member said.
The controversy over circumcision

"In the past, we've said newborn circumcision has benefits and risks," said Dr. Douglas Diekema, a professor of pediatrics at the University of Washington. "Given the fact that neither the risks nor benefits are particularly compelling, this is a decision to be made by parents."

The American Academy of Pediatrics currently holds that there is evidence of circumcision's potential benefits, but not enough to recommend routine newborn circumcisions.

Both anti- and pro-circumcision forces have pushed their positions based on medical and quasi-health claims. Fifty years ago, people advocated circumcisions because of the false notion that it reduced masturbation, Diekema said.

"There have always been people opposed to it," he said. "One of the differences between today and 50 years ago is two primary things: Advocacy groups are better organized. They are much more vocal and the internet has allowed that expression in that way."

In San Francisco, Schofield's proposal is not a lone effort. He is part of the Bay Area intactivist group, which calls the procedure "male genital mutilation" and likens it to cutting female genitals.

Schofield's proposal has a long way to go, requiring 7,168 signatures by April next year to appear on the November 2011 ballot. Throughout the country, there have been similar measures, including a failed effort in Massachusetts earlier this year.

"It's up to the choice of the individual -- not the parents, society or religion," Schofield said. "This is a choice for body integrity. Just as females are protected from having a drop of blood drawn from their genitals, baby boys deserve the same protection."

Intactivists also say:

-- Circumcisions are not medically necessary and violate the child's body.

-- It requires a medical procedure, which carries risk of complications and pain.

-- Foreskins are part of the natural body to help protect the penis.

Proponents say:

-- Circumcision can reduce the risk of penile cancer, a rare disease.

-- It is part of traditional, religious practices in Jewish and Muslim faiths.

-- Men who are circumcised are less likely to get sexually transmitted infections such as genital herpes and human papillomavirus, according to a study of adult African men published 2009 in the New England Journal of Medicine.

Public health efforts have sought to increase circumcision rates in Africa to reduce STIs such as HIV/AIDS. It's unclear how circumcision lowers infection rates, but researchers speculate that the foreskin could foster a more favorable environment for viruses.

It's also possible to develop swelling and tenderness if the foreskin is not properly cared for.

"There are numbers of patients who had no clue what had to be done, because they didn't handle their foreskin correctly and they ended up getting adhesion," said Dr. Michael Brady, a professor of pediatrics at the Nationwide Children's Hospital in Columbus, Ohio. "That can happen; it's not a myth."

But Brady added, "That by itself, is not reason to circumcise an infant."

Dr. Emily Blake, an obstetrician-gynecologist and mohel in New York, said a ban would limit the rights of doctors and patients, cause an undue burden on families with newborns and stand in the way of religious freedom.

"It is part of our commitment to God. We believe we do it in a very humane, loving, supportive way," said Blake, who performs religious and non-religious circumcisions for boys, as well as naming ceremonies for girls. "There are certainly many places in the world where a ban on circumcision is one of the prongs of an anti-Semitic movement -- anti-Jewish and also anti-Muslim."

A circumcision ceremony might involve just a few people, or a few hundred, along with food, readings and prayers. Babies are comforted with sugar, topical anesthetic and pain relievers, and many sleep through the circumcision, Blake said.

Removing the foreskin from a male is not an equivalent to removing the clitoris from a female, Blake said, in terms of pain or long-term effects.

"I think it's harder on the parents. We make this into a very scary, terrifying thing. Most babies do incredibly well,'" Blake said. "I've done a great job if the parents cry more than the baby does."

Most parents come to the doctor's office having already decided whether to circumcise, Diekema said. Only a small percentage of parents are undecided.

Amy Jo Jones of Milwaukee, Wisconsin, made the decision to have her two sons circumcised and it "wasn't about vanity."

After reading into the topic, Jones, writer and blogger who contributes to The Stir said: "The deciding factor for us was I wanted my son to be like his father. I didn't want him grow up and feel his body was different. It's not about how it looks or doesn't look. I knew there were some medical advantages, although it's not considered medically necessary. The deciding factor was for him feeling comfortable with body and like that of his dad."

Jesse Sterling of Albany, California, decided to not to have his 10-month-old son circumcised.

Despite his Jewish background, he said the surgery would have "put my baby through a painful situation because of some beliefs. At this point, people do it because it's a habit."

Sterling, who was not circumcised, said he was teased as a kid in school for how it looked.

"Ever since then, I was like, 'Whatever. I don't care.' Don't try to sway me, other than informing me more thoroughly," he said.


This is practically ancient era news by now in internet standards but I kept forgetting about it.

Yes, this is the same board that tried to get toys in Happy Meals banned (thread here). This proposal has a long, long way to go before being considered as actual law, but it might be the first real big move in the circumcision debate.

Basically, a guy proposes to make it flat-out illegal to circumcise anyone under the age of 17, parent approval or not. I imagine there are some medical concerns that must be considered and whatnot in the final writing, but it looks like the biggest force behind the pro-circumcision side are the religious, which is pretty interesting since it seems like a medical procedure to me.

The United States remains the last Western civilization still in favor of circumcision, which has been falling in almost all European countries, and is of noticeably lower rates in Canada. Anti-circumcision movements have been growing for decades in the US as a result of this, and this, should it become law, would be the first big "intactivist" victory. This is also kind of interesting since female circumcision is illegal in the US, but the legality of male circumcision has never really been fought over (except for this bill, apparently).

Thoughts? There is a strong international presence on this website, so it would be interesting to get some non-American insight on this issue. Here in the US it's widely seen as "normal" to be circumcised and many people prescribe by the beliefs of it being "cleaner" or "safer", but there are also a large number of people who apparently just do it to conform to societal standards, which seems like not very solid reasoning behind permanent medical modification to me.
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States45277 Posts
November 29 2010 03:57 GMT
#2
They want to outlaw a medical procedure that can reduce the possibility of diseases and decrease specific health risks?

Yeahhh... there's NO problem with that... ::facepalm::
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
BigBadSkathe
Profile Joined September 2009
United States234 Posts
November 29 2010 03:58 GMT
#3
Sounds good to me. It never made any sense to me that it was acceptable to alter a child's body in such a way loooooooong before he even had the mental capacity to understand what was happening or why, let alone consent to it.
Hey.
PH
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States6173 Posts
November 29 2010 04:00 GMT
#4
Why would you oppose circumcision?

The religious basis for it had to do with lower overall levels of hygiene at the time. Now, it's hardly important at all since it's considered to be a basic standard of living to be able to bathe at least once every day or so. In any case, as the article cited, it's not terribly important either way.

I don't really get why these people are organizing an advocacy group for this. They need to find something better to do with their time, honestly...
Hello
Zealotdriver
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States1557 Posts
November 29 2010 04:00 GMT
#5
I wonder how this would interact with religious freedom laws. Jewish tradition involves circumcision.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bris
Turn off the radio
Krigwin
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
1130 Posts
November 29 2010 04:02 GMT
#6
On November 29 2010 12:57 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
They want to outlaw a medical procedure that can reduce the possibility of diseases and decrease specific health risks?

Yeahhh... there's NO problem with that... ::facepalm::

Not outlaw it flat out, just in the case of minors, and like I said I imagine there will be medical exceptions and whatnot written into the final law if it even makes it that far.

Come on bro, I even bolded that part!
Irrelevant
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States2364 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-29 04:06:08
November 29 2010 04:03 GMT
#7
Circumcisions as a whole are pointless and in this day and age only religiously backed, however in our current society it is an overwhelming norm and if wasn't hard enough to be a teenager already, try doing it with a dick that looks different from everyone else.

Another case of the government needing to stay the fuck out of my house.

Side Note: It is possible to regrow the foreskin that is removed and make yourself "uncircumcised" without the need for surgery if you really want to.


Side Side Note: The religious backing was never because of a hygiene issue, the skin was given as a sacrifice to your god showing your loyalty. (Not sure why your god wants parts of little boy penises, but whatever)
Jarhead
Profile Joined September 2009
United States53 Posts
November 29 2010 04:05 GMT
#8
On November 29 2010 12:57 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
They want to outlaw a medical procedure that can reduce the possibility of diseases and decrease specific health risks?

Yeahhh... there's NO problem with that... ::facepalm::



It only reduces disease if you don't shower.

I'd rather have my normal penis back.

And to the religious: If God doesn't want you to have a foreskin, why did he give it to you in the first place?
dinmsab
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Malaysia2246 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-29 04:06:20
November 29 2010 04:06 GMT
#9
It's really a big thing for jews and muslim and banning it would definitely piss a lot of people off. I don't know about all the benefits but if it isn't harmful then why ban it? Think of it as playing starcraft; it's not necessary, it's not harmful and it makes a lot of people happy.
..
Nfi
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States357 Posts
November 29 2010 04:06 GMT
#10
So they want everyone to have elephant trunks? (It does look like an elephants trunk!)
"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person, give man a mask, and he will tell you the truth."
Jarhead
Profile Joined September 2009
United States53 Posts
November 29 2010 04:06 GMT
#11
On November 29 2010 13:03 Irrelevant wrote:
.... try doing it with a dick that looks different from everyone else.



Luckily, if it becomes illegal, all dicks will become uncirced.
Irrelevant
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States2364 Posts
November 29 2010 04:09 GMT
#12
Seems like this board picked up a dvd box set of Penn and Teller's BullShit and is trying to fight everything BS has disproved.
Beneather
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada451 Posts
November 29 2010 04:09 GMT
#13
What's the point of banning it. Even though it's not necessary shouldn't the parents allowed to choose to have their son circumcised. Plus it's a tradition and the parents mostly choose the best for their child if they really love their child.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Day[9} <3
Subversion
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
South Africa3627 Posts
November 29 2010 04:12 GMT
#14
On November 29 2010 13:05 Jarhead wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 29 2010 12:57 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
They want to outlaw a medical procedure that can reduce the possibility of diseases and decrease specific health risks?

Yeahhh... there's NO problem with that... ::facepalm::



It only reduces disease if you don't shower.

I'd rather have my normal penis back.

And to the religious: If God doesn't want you to have a foreskin, why did he give it to you in the first place?


actually it greatly reduces your risk of contracting an STD (if u have unprotected sex).

i think its ridiculous that they actually want to outlaw this. im sure many doctors would attest that circumcision isn't harmful, and in many ways can be beneficial.

seems like this guy has just decided he doesnt like it and wants to force his opinion on everyone else.
Irrelevant
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States2364 Posts
November 29 2010 04:12 GMT
#15
On November 29 2010 13:09 Beneather wrote:
What's the point of banning it. Even though it's not necessary shouldn't the parents allowed to choose to have their son circumcised. Plus it's a tradition and the parents mostly choose the best for their child if they really love their child.


The issue with that argument is parents are naturally stupid, and in their attempts to do what is best for their child they often believe shit they wouldn't normally fall for, such as the whole diseases and other medical crap which is just flat out not true.
Krigwin
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
1130 Posts
November 29 2010 04:14 GMT
#16
On November 29 2010 13:12 Subversion wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 29 2010 13:05 Jarhead wrote:
On November 29 2010 12:57 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
They want to outlaw a medical procedure that can reduce the possibility of diseases and decrease specific health risks?

Yeahhh... there's NO problem with that... ::facepalm::



It only reduces disease if you don't shower.

I'd rather have my normal penis back.

And to the religious: If God doesn't want you to have a foreskin, why did he give it to you in the first place?


actually it greatly reduces your risk of contracting an STD (if u have unprotected sex).

i think its ridiculous that they actually want to outlaw this. im sure many doctors would attest that circumcision isn't harmful, and in many ways can be beneficial.

seems like this guy has just decided he doesnt like it and wants to force his opinion on everyone else.

How do you define "harmful"? Please elaborate.
Dfgj
Profile Joined May 2008
Singapore5922 Posts
November 29 2010 04:24 GMT
#17
Pretty much only done here for medical reasons or if specifically requested (for religious groups).

Having it done so casually and to everyone in the US always seemed ridiculous to me.
Jarhead
Profile Joined September 2009
United States53 Posts
November 29 2010 04:26 GMT
#18
I agree with Krigwin. Watch the procedure some time, the baby doesn't look happy.

If you turn 18 and want it done, go for it. I just wish I hadn't had my genitals mutilated as a child.
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States45277 Posts
November 29 2010 04:27 GMT
#19
On November 29 2010 13:02 Krigwin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 29 2010 12:57 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
They want to outlaw a medical procedure that can reduce the possibility of diseases and decrease specific health risks?

Yeahhh... there's NO problem with that... ::facepalm::

Not outlaw it flat out, just in the case of minors, and like I said I imagine there will be medical exceptions and whatnot written into the final law if it even makes it that far.

Come on bro, I even bolded that part!


I noticed that, but it's the parents' and doctors' responsibility to take care of children. If we have medical evidence that circumcision reduces medical risks (and apparently, going by your article, we do), then we should be protecting our children. It's akin to saying "Well we should wait for kids to hit 17 years old so THEY can decide whether or not they want vaccines!" That's nonsense. We need to protect them as early on as possible. We're the adults; we need to care for them.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
Roe
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Canada6002 Posts
November 29 2010 04:28 GMT
#20
Sounds good. I don't think a parent should have the power to mutilate their children, but supposedly if it's illegal people will go to back alley places and it will be even more dangerous
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