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On November 24 2010 09:08 Half wrote:Show nested quote +
North Korea is not "absolute evil", because absolute evil doesn't mean anything. And Americans are certainly not "the good ones" theses days.
No nation is good. All nations, when it comes down to it, are entirely ruthless about protecting their interests, without any regard for morals or rights. What matters is which nation is more aligned with your values, and your interests, and you can't honestly fucking think that NK is preferable to the U.S.
What...?. What's the basis of your statement. Without ANY regard? That's laughable.
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"Genuine tragedies in the world are not conflicts between right and wrong. They are conflicts between two rights."
Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel
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What kind of site is that militaryphotos? War hungry people that use googlemaps and get info from wikipedia about a nations arsenal and then continue to plot on what would happen? ^^ Guess there's a forum for everything
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North Korea has the third largest standing army in the world, it would be no easy task invading them by land, also remember how loyal and brainwashed alot of the people are, they would fight to the death even with really inferior equipment and training.
Obviously, what NK is doing is totally wrong and unjustified, targetting innocent people with artillery on a "Suspicion" of invasion is completly out of order. The only people in NK that need to come to some serious harm are the leaders of the DPRK.
Everyone that talks about nukes, While North Korea does have nuclear weapons, they are not going to effect any outbreak of war in the slightest. If they ever decided to fire a nuke at any country, they would be turfed over with immediate effect by the rest of the world, unless they really are that stupid and power hungry.
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On November 24 2010 09:29 Rawenkeke wrote:What kind of site is that militaryphotos? War hungry people that use googlemaps and get info from wikipedia about a nations arsenal and then continue to plot on what would happen? ^^ Guess there's a forum for everything
Actually it is a good forum for well-informed people on military matters. It has its share of bad posters and trolls too of course. But hey, let's just call them all war hungry people because it's much easier.
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On November 24 2010 09:08 Half wrote:Show nested quote +
North Korea is not "absolute evil", because absolute evil doesn't mean anything. And Americans are certainly not "the good ones" theses days.
No nation is good. All nations, when it comes down to it, are entirely ruthless about protecting their interests, without any regard for morals or rights. What matters is which nation is more aligned with your values, and your interests, and you can't honestly fucking think that NK is preferable to the U.S.
This is ridiculous, western society is built on morals and rights. If what you say is true we'd still be keeping slaves.
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On November 24 2010 08:29 krndandaman wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2010 08:00 lvatural wrote:On November 24 2010 07:51 jinorazi wrote:i'm a traitor  my mom made me into an american citizen :O no jury duty yet!  If you had a dual citizenship between Korea and USA, then later relinquished your Korean citizenship for the USA when you turned 18, you can still get drafted in the SK army if you stay in Korea for too long a period. Just an fyi so you don't go on some summer trip in SK then get stuck in the military for two years. Edit: I think the rationale was to prevent Korean families to go to USA and have kids just to get around the mandatory military service. that's bullshit. so basically, you're an american citizen and when you go to korea they can just say "no you're serving in our army even if you may not know a single word of korean and you're a us citizen"? are you sure of this?
Straight from the U.S. Department of State website regarding ROK. Doesn't happen all the time, but it's a possibility. A co-worker of mine gave me the heads up (since I fall in this category) when he read a news article about those guys getting drafted, yes these kids didn't know an ounce of Korean. So I'm making sure to contact the embassy before my next trip out there.
Since ROK regulations about compulsory military service and dual citizenship can be complex, we encourage you to contact the Republic of Korea Embassy in Washington or your nearest Republic of Korea consulate general with your questions about ROK-U.S. citizenship and military conscription.
There have been several instances where young U.S. citizen men of ROK descent, who were born and lived all of their lives in the United States, arrived in the Republic of Korea as tourists only to be drafted into the ROK army. At least two of these cases involved individuals whose names had been recorded on the ROK Family Relations Certificate without their knowledge. If you fall into this category, special processing may be required for you to visit the Republic of Korea; please contact a Republic of Korea embassy or a consulate to receive more information before traveling to the Republic of Korea
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Korea (South)1897 Posts
On November 24 2010 09:46 lvatural wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2010 08:29 krndandaman wrote:On November 24 2010 08:00 lvatural wrote:On November 24 2010 07:51 jinorazi wrote:i'm a traitor my mom made me into an american citizen :O no jury duty yet! If you had a dual citizenship between Korea and USA, then later relinquished your Korean citizenship for the USA when you turned 18, you can still get drafted in the SK army if you stay in Korea for too long a period. Just an fyi so you don't go on some summer trip in SK then get stuck in the military for two years. Edit: I think the rationale was to prevent Korean families to go to USA and have kids just to get around the mandatory military service. that's bullshit. so basically, you're an american citizen and when you go to korea they can just say "no you're serving in our army even if you may not know a single word of korean and you're a us citizen"? are you sure of this? Straight from the U.S. Department of State website regarding ROK. Doesn't happen all the time, but it's a possibility. A co-worker of mine gave me the heads up (since I fall in this category) when he read a news article about those guys getting drafted, yes these kids didn't know an ounce of Korean. So I'm making sure to contact the embassy before my next trip out there. Show nested quote +
Since ROK regulations about compulsory military service and dual citizenship can be complex, we encourage you to contact the Republic of Korea Embassy in Washington or your nearest Republic of Korea consulate general with your questions about ROK-U.S. citizenship and military conscription.
There have been several instances where young U.S. citizen men of ROK descent, who were born and lived all of their lives in the United States, arrived in the Republic of Korea as tourists only to be drafted into the ROK army. At least two of these cases involved individuals whose names had been recorded on the ROK Family Relations Certificate without their knowledge. If you fall into this category, special processing may be required for you to visit the Republic of Korea; please contact a Republic of Korea embassy or a consulate to receive more information before traveling to the Republic of Korea
The main point is if your parents are still Korean citizens, if they are, you can still get drafted even if you hold american citizenship because in the eyes of the Korean gov't you still are fundamentally Korean. If your parents renounce their Korean citizenship and this is acknowledged by the Korean gov't this is generally fine, UNLESS, your name is on the family registry, then you're always at risk to be draft. It is complicated and if you overstay your visa by one day, bye bye, you going to the army. So in my case, if my parents were to take back their Korean citizenship, i'd be shipped to the army either the next day or within six months =).
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My words are just the reiteration of all the others of stable mind here.
I hope the dogs of war calm their barks and bites before the wheels of war start moving.
Positive thoughts of peace and safety go out to my Korean brothers on both sides of the line!
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On November 24 2010 09:42 Frits wrote:
This is ridiculous, western society is built on morals and rights. If what you say is true we'd still be keeping slaves.
This is ridiculous, people believing western society is built on morals and rights, tell that to your imperialist ancestors who came to Asia looking for spice and subjugating the local population.
Just for example, the Dutch took over Malacca from the Portugese, who were the ones who kicked the ruling king out. A neverending cycle of white people, pissing on the locals.
History is never black and white, white people did a lot of shitty things too, it's high time you white people start remembering it, instead of believing myths that make you feel good.
Also, America did not win WW2, Russia did.
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On November 24 2010 10:01 johanngrunt wrote:
Also, America did not win WW2, Russia did.
America won the Pacific theater, and as an Asian, I'm fairly thankful for that.
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On November 23 2010 15:47 Kakera wrote:
Oh shit, WW3 is happening and I'm watching GSL? Why isn't it canceled!?
You're talking about WW3 being canceled, not GSL right?
'Cus WW3 can wait. GSL is more important.
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On November 24 2010 10:01 johanngrunt wrote:
Also, America did not win WW2, Russia did.
Russia took care of germany, but it was the US that ended it with japan. and tbh nobody wins in war.
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On November 24 2010 10:07 Tethyrian wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2010 15:47 Kakera wrote:
Oh shit, WW3 is happening and I'm watching GSL? Why isn't it canceled!? You're talking about WW3 being canceled, not GSL right? 'Cus WW3 can wait. GSL is more important.
Thats kinda stupid of you, to say such a thing.
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On November 24 2010 10:01 johanngrunt wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2010 09:42 Frits wrote:
This is ridiculous, western society is built on morals and rights. If what you say is true we'd still be keeping slaves. Also, America did not win WW2, Russia did.
Russia never would've pushed the Germans back without American and British Aid. Also America won in the pacific theatre and merely allowed Russia to make it Berlin first.
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if north korean attack on south korea coincides with a republican being elected to presidency, it's all fucking over.
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On November 24 2010 10:10 krndandaman wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2010 09:46 lvatural wrote:On November 24 2010 08:29 krndandaman wrote:On November 24 2010 08:00 lvatural wrote:On November 24 2010 07:51 jinorazi wrote:i'm a traitor my mom made me into an american citizen :O no jury duty yet! If you had a dual citizenship between Korea and USA, then later relinquished your Korean citizenship for the USA when you turned 18, you can still get drafted in the SK army if you stay in Korea for too long a period. Just an fyi so you don't go on some summer trip in SK then get stuck in the military for two years. Edit: I think the rationale was to prevent Korean families to go to USA and have kids just to get around the mandatory military service. that's bullshit. so basically, you're an american citizen and when you go to korea they can just say "no you're serving in our army even if you may not know a single word of korean and you're a us citizen"? are you sure of this? Straight from the U.S. Department of State website regarding ROK. Doesn't happen all the time, but it's a possibility. A co-worker of mine gave me the heads up (since I fall in this category) when he read a news article about those guys getting drafted, yes these kids didn't know an ounce of Korean. So I'm making sure to contact the embassy before my next trip out there.
Since ROK regulations about compulsory military service and dual citizenship can be complex, we encourage you to contact the Republic of Korea Embassy in Washington or your nearest Republic of Korea consulate general with your questions about ROK-U.S. citizenship and military conscription.
There have been several instances where young U.S. citizen men of ROK descent, who were born and lived all of their lives in the United States, arrived in the Republic of Korea as tourists only to be drafted into the ROK army. At least two of these cases involved individuals whose names had been recorded on the ROK Family Relations Certificate without their knowledge. If you fall into this category, special processing may be required for you to visit the Republic of Korea; please contact a Republic of Korea embassy or a consulate to receive more information before traveling to the Republic of Korea
i've already seen that before. but no where does that say anything about those who renounced theirr korean citizenship. im planning on renouncing my dual citizenship this may well before my 18th bday. what you quoted, as far as i know, applies to those who never renounced their dual citizenship. Show nested quote +On November 24 2010 09:57 MightyAtom wrote:On November 24 2010 09:46 lvatural wrote:On November 24 2010 08:29 krndandaman wrote:On November 24 2010 08:00 lvatural wrote:On November 24 2010 07:51 jinorazi wrote:i'm a traitor my mom made me into an american citizen :O no jury duty yet! If you had a dual citizenship between Korea and USA, then later relinquished your Korean citizenship for the USA when you turned 18, you can still get drafted in the SK army if you stay in Korea for too long a period. Just an fyi so you don't go on some summer trip in SK then get stuck in the military for two years. Edit: I think the rationale was to prevent Korean families to go to USA and have kids just to get around the mandatory military service. that's bullshit. so basically, you're an american citizen and when you go to korea they can just say "no you're serving in our army even if you may not know a single word of korean and you're a us citizen"? are you sure of this? Straight from the U.S. Department of State website regarding ROK. Doesn't happen all the time, but it's a possibility. A co-worker of mine gave me the heads up (since I fall in this category) when he read a news article about those guys getting drafted, yes these kids didn't know an ounce of Korean. So I'm making sure to contact the embassy before my next trip out there.
Since ROK regulations about compulsory military service and dual citizenship can be complex, we encourage you to contact the Republic of Korea Embassy in Washington or your nearest Republic of Korea consulate general with your questions about ROK-U.S. citizenship and military conscription.
There have been several instances where young U.S. citizen men of ROK descent, who were born and lived all of their lives in the United States, arrived in the Republic of Korea as tourists only to be drafted into the ROK army. At least two of these cases involved individuals whose names had been recorded on the ROK Family Relations Certificate without their knowledge. If you fall into this category, special processing may be required for you to visit the Republic of Korea; please contact a Republic of Korea embassy or a consulate to receive more information before traveling to the Republic of Korea
The main point is if your parents are still Korean citizens, if they are, you can still get drafted even if you hold american citizenship because in the eyes of the Korean gov't you still are fundamentally Korean. If your parents renounce their Korean citizenship and this is acknowledged by the Korean gov't this is generally fine, UNLESS, your name is on the family registry, then you're always at risk to be draft. It is complicated and if you overstay your visa by one day, bye bye, you going to the army. So in my case, if my parents were to take back their Korean citizenship, i'd be shipped to the army either the next day or within six months =). this seems fine because as long as you leave when your visa/vacation time is up, you should be fine. but from Ivatural's post, i felt like he was saying that during your vacation in korea you may be dragged into the army against your will. aka meaning that i can't visit korea without the possibility of being drafted out of nowhere
He's probably right, but I'm still planning to contact the embassy before my next visit. A phone call (that'll probably take forever since it's the damn embassy :/) isn't too big a cost when it's compared to the possibility of getting drafted for 2 years. I'd still recommend talking to actual gov't officials instead of taking faith in a post from TL. Better prepared than sorry, and 2 years can pretty much alter the trajectory of your life.
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On November 24 2010 09:42 Frits wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2010 09:08 Half wrote:
North Korea is not "absolute evil", because absolute evil doesn't mean anything. And Americans are certainly not "the good ones" theses days.
No nation is good. All nations, when it comes down to it, are entirely ruthless about protecting their interests, without any regard for morals or rights. What matters is which nation is more aligned with your values, and your interests, and you can't honestly fucking think that NK is preferable to the U.S. This is ridiculous, western society is built on morals and rights. If what you say is true we'd still be keeping slaves.
Slaves are not economically profitable once the means distributing information and education in a society surpasses a certain point. Slavery is not free, slavery is a low investment on human resources, but marked with highly limited margin for growth. And Slavery can only be a viable economic model in very specific forms of agrarian societies.
Slavery was not abolished because it was deemed wrong, it was abolished because it was no longer profitable for the dominant status quo.
Come on, your not honestly so naive that economic models are defined by a cultural sense of whats right and wrong are you? Sorry, its the other way around, whats right and wrong are defined by economic models, scarcity, and geographics.
And Slavery is just a word, what you view as slavery is an intrinsically vague set of logical bounds solidified through cultural memesis and pretense. Tell me, is that really a logical difference between a roman slave (who could seek freedom in a variety of ways) and a black man working under the sharecropping system?
Slavery is marked by an economical model where a very minimal amount of investment is placed on an individual within a society, with a lower expected interest on the return. A ten year old can tell you that its a very conservative mindset not really ideal for a society that seeks to grow.
What...?. What's the basis of your statement. Without ANY regard? That's laughable.
Perhaps I should clarify. Without any intrinsic regard for morals and rights. Morals and rights are of course, respected, to ensure there prevalence within a society as a whole, as a PR move, so to speak. But when it comes down to it, morals do not supersede the core function of any system, to continue to exist, and to grow, only but only matters of regard when they contribute to the above functions.
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"War isnt abt whose right, is abt who's left"
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EPT
