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On October 01 2010 06:08 Caller wrote:
There was a J-drama I watched that best sums up how hypocritical suicide is. A person is shown a video of their open heart surgery, especially how their heart is beating. The doctor remarks how ironic it is that while she is trying to throw her life away, that little heart is like a baby struggling to stay alive. And the thought that if you killed yourself you would be taking this baby down with you too-that perhaps is the feeling we need to convey to stupid angsty people.
Thank god i have your bullshit wisdom from a japanese drama series so that i better understand suicide and depression. I'm at a loss why you would flame someone committing suicide.
(edited for silliness)
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On October 01 2010 09:32 .risingdragoon wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2010 09:07 AdrenalinG wrote:
Why is it not responsible journalism? They're adults, there is no legal or moral obligation to hide their names from the public at large. So what if they're adults. Releasing names ruins lives, the law is suppose to deal out fair punishment, not the people who take it into their own hands. You're not in the right mind to see the overall picture right now. Take a chill pill.
You obviously have no clue of why names are withheld for minors but fair game for legal adults.
"Not only must Justice be done; it must also be seen to be done"
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All i'm going to say is that the idea of a dormitory with shared rooms is the worst thing that could ever happen. The majority of the population does/will do these kinds of stupid things, so it doesn't make any sense whatsoever to share a living space, or for that matter a bedroom with some random person who just so happens to be going to your college as statistically speaking, hes probably an idiot, and a college education does little if anything to fix that.
Also can someone please explain to me how you came up with the idea that suicide is selfish and the student was short-sighted? Just because you would rather live 50+ years doesn't mean he would, your kind of applying a judgement about your own desires and assuming that your desire must be the correct one and that anyone who thinks differently surely hasn't thought this through and is short sighted. That kind of sounds pretty self centered to me.
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On October 01 2010 09:39 AdrenalinG wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2010 09:32 .risingdragoon wrote:On October 01 2010 09:07 AdrenalinG wrote:
Why is it not responsible journalism? They're adults, there is no legal or moral obligation to hide their names from the public at large. So what if they're adults. Releasing names ruins lives, the law is suppose to deal out fair punishment, not the people who take it into their own hands. You're not in the right mind to see the overall picture right now. Take a chill pill. You obviously have no clue of why names are withheld for minors but fair game for legal adults. "Not only must Justice be done; it must also be seen to be done"
It's still not fair game for adults, not to mention college kids going to school.
This over-zealous tone of yours has got you blindfolded. You sound like a stone-thrower.
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You guys are missing the bigger picture. This guy took his OWN LIFE.
Like someone else has said, humiliation is something that we all go through. Okay...you made out with some dude on a webcam and a select few that you live with know you're gay. Do you think people care THAT much? To be honest, not really. Welcome to 2010. Does he not know that there are so many more people out there that have it much worse off that him and would do anything to be in his shoes?
And just because of that, he decides to jump off a bridge and end his own life just like that to hurt his friends, family, AND even the two that committed the crime. The media truly blows things out of proportion. I understand that the students that secretly streamed this went a bit too far and that they should get charged with invasion of privacy at most. Nothing more than that...anyone who thinks that they should get charged for manslaughter is just ridiculous.
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On October 01 2010 09:38 kefkalives wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2010 06:08 Caller wrote:
There was a J-drama I watched that best sums up how hypocritical suicide is. A person is shown a video of their open heart surgery, especially how their heart is beating. The doctor remarks how ironic it is that while she is trying to throw her life away, that little heart is like a baby struggling to stay alive. And the thought that if you killed yourself you would be taking this baby down with you too-that perhaps is the feeling we need to convey to stupid angsty people. Thank god i have your bullshit wisdom from a japanese drama series so that i better understand suicide and depression. I'm at a loss why you would flame someone committing suicide. (edited for silliness)
Anime is the bastion of moral quandaries and exploration, clearly
On October 01 2010 09:44 Amnesia wrote:
You guys are missing the bigger picture. This guy took his OWN LIFE.
Like someone else has said, humiliation is something that we all go through. Okay...you made out with some dude on a webcam and a select few that you live with know you're gay. Do you think people care THAT much? To be honest, not really. Welcome to 2010. Does he not know that there are so many more people out there that have it much worse off that him and would do anything to be in his shoes?
And just because of that, he decides to jump off a bridge and end his own life just like that to hurt his friends, family, AND even the two that committed the crime. The media truly blows things out of proportion. I understand that the students that secretly streamed this went a bit too far and that they should get charged with invasion of privacy at most. Nothing more than that...anyone who thinks that they should get charged for manslaughter is just ridiculous.
Do you understand the difference between first degree and third degree murder? What about torts, negligence, and vicarious liability?
You have every right for expressing your opinion, but like many opinions in this thread, they're stupid.
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On October 01 2010 07:53 travis wrote:
I don't think there are any problems that lie specifically in being selfish. It seems to me that in life that our primary obligation is to tend to our selves and to do what we want.
(this is in response to the whole "suicide is selfish" argument. My reply is "yes, but so what?") It's not our responsibility to protect others from indirect harm, that doesn't seem reasonable at all.
I think you would need to expand on the selfish aspect of this argument as simply relying on the idea that humans are inherently selfish in order to establish your point is lacking I think or at least quite general.
Also Indirect harm would need to be defined.
This story is very sad, although knowing some of the kinds or pranks that go on at universities then I think denouncing the people who did this as human dregs or utterly contemptible might be treating what they did unfairly due to the response of the victim. Although im slightly inclined towards thinking that, instead, it is simple true that there are quite a few people out there capable of doing these kind of things and that doesn't make what they do any less contemptible.
I was quite shocked at the post Caller made, I can't find myself relating to people who claim suicide is fundamentally selfish (the idea often being put forward is that suicide is extremely selfish, and the people who do so completely ignore or disregard the pain and trauma they place on others, that what they are doing is wasteful and often attention seeking)
I personally think it is more selfish to expect someone who is experiencing trauma and pain in there lives to the extent where they no longer wish to continue living, to in spite of this not go through with it.
This argument is more related to the people who "sanely" arrive at the position of suicide, now I personally hate the term sanity and insanity as one presumes a correct way of thinking, and the other belittles issues by using a blanket term "Why did he do this?" "He was insane...".
Then there are people who commit suicide at a point of emotional distress or where their conception of reality is distorted or skewed from their typical state. Condemning people who arrive at suicide in such a state is likewise wrong to me.
I'm not trying to say that there is no element of selfishness in suicide or that we should respect and sympathise with every person and instance of suicide or suicidal behaviour regardless of the situation. But the counter point that suicide is fundamentally selfish and wrong and should always or on the whole be treated as such is likewise an ignorant position to hold.
Who are we to dictate the rights people do and do not have over their own lives.
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Yeah well if everybody checked out cus of facing hardship we'd still be living in caves.
He did go way overboard with the suicide. Not all suicide does. But this one has. The video and the twits are painful, but if we keep some perspective, suicide shouldn't even be on the first page of a list of things to do.
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On October 01 2010 09:51 .risingdragoon wrote:
Yeah well if everybody checked out cus of facing hardship we'd still be living in caves.
He did go way overboard with the suicide. Not all suicide does. But this one has. The video and the twits are painful, but if we keep some perspective, suicide shouldn't even be on the first page of a list of things to do.
Suicide should never be on any list. But he did commit suicide because of very specific actions. And the defendants will have to deal with it; that's how the law works.
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So why did the media release the names? That's the whole fucking point.
Now there's no way they can get a fair sentence.
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On October 01 2010 09:54 .risingdragoon wrote:
So why did the media release the names? That's the whole fucking point.
Now there's no way they can get a fair sentence.
Because that's how the media works, and the law is supposed to give a fair sentence irregardless of the high-profile status of a lawsuit. You don't need to look further than OJ Simpson's case to see how even a high-profile lawsuit like that didn't work in the media's favour.
There is nothing to "protect" from these charged individuals and you seem to have an irrational defense towards protecting people's names.
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I bet that this would not have been such a "hot" topic if the guy wasn't gay or committed suicide.
Like I said, these kids did do some wrong on their part but not to the point where they should deserve to get hated on this badly. Have some of you read the facebook group/pages? Some comments are just way out of line.
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On October 01 2010 10:00 Amnesia wrote:
I bet that this would not have been such a "hot" topic if the guy wasn't gay or committed suicide.
Obviously, because this case demonstrates the underlying societal homophobia, the use of computer technology, and cyber-bullying in general.
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Vatican City State2594 Posts
Yo people who are bleeding their hearts out all over me, I understand your arguments and all but you can't tell me I'm clearly out-of-line or blaming the victim like I'm some sort of co-conspirator to this whole thing. I'm not trying to teach you morals I'm just voicing my opinion, you can do the same, right? I didn't preach to any of you, so stop preaching to me. I already said I'm pretty blunt, I said I'm pretty insensitive, that doesn't change my opinion of you or of the situation. All it does is it gives me the ability to say that his actions were stupid, and so were the actions of the dude who taped his private life, and that it's not manslaughter. Get off your high horses.
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WTF you talking about? That's NOT how it works. The media is suppose to restraint and let the law carry out the sentencing. Even more so in this age of internet where even some dude in Norway or China would know a regional incident like this, you be responsible and show restraint.
Don't destroy lives till the law has spoken.
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On October 01 2010 07:02 matjlav wrote:
Obviously the roommate was pretty fucked up to do this. Pretty ridiculous. The saddest part is there seems to have been some self-hatred going on in the kid for him to have taken his own life as a result; I feel like someone comfortable with himself would have handled the situation better.
But seriously, it's just weird that the roommate would want to do that.
the guy had issues nobody just kills himself just because they had shame over something. its probable that he hated himself for being gay and was not proud of it.. some people just cant learn to accept themselves and how they are, he must have been, full of guilt of being gay.
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On October 01 2010 07:31 Manifesto7 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2010 07:27 Murderotica wrote:
Also btw the girl so far has been proven to only do 1 thing, which is let the guy use her room. How the fuck is that a manslaughter charge? She would have been letting him use the room even without the webcam fiasco. Yeah I am sure she was just doing her homework and ignoring the whole thing.
Actually that is not that unreasonable of a possibility imo....
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Bleh, sorry if my last post was a bit ragey. I had recently had to deal with some people contemplating suicide and I'm just sick of it and how people can proceed with a course of action that goes against every biological instinct. I just can't understand why people who have been given a great gift throw it away because they think that right at that moment it is bad. It's as spoiled as a child who breaks the game system his parents bought him because it wasn't the one he wanted.
There are very few exceptions to when I feel suicide is justified. For instance,
a) euthanasia, where people with terminal or unmanageable illnesses legally arrange their death to minimize their impact while trying to affect the world as soon as possible.
b) people who know that all that remains for them is a show trial and a perversion of justice, such as defeated military commanders/political leaders. Like for instance, Hitler committing suicide, or the Japanese idea of seppuku, I find to be understandable-as they see no other way to preserve their honor, rather than disgracing their bloodline
c) people whom have no outstanding obligations to anybody else provided they do it quietly
d) people who do it for a greater good. For instance, I would consider that monk who burned himself alive to have done something meaningful with his demise-he was able to assist in the ending of an unnecessary conflict by doing so.
This contrasts with other people who commit suicide, such as those that
a) jump in front of moving vehicles, traumatizing the operator for life
b) jump off buildings, traumatizing onlookers for life
c) take up room in hospitals by overdosing
d) be an attention whore about it. Especially if it involves a myspace or facebook message. This is basically the equivalent of streaking except that you die and its not funny.
Death in all cases should be as peaceful and minimizing the negative impact to others as much as possible. People don't exactly try to catch a terminal disease so they can have other people's sympathy. Why should instantaneous death be any different?
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On October 01 2010 10:05 .risingdragoon wrote:
WTF you talking about? That's NOT how it works. The media is suppose to restraint and let the law carry out the sentencing. Even more so in this age of internet where even some dude in Norway or China would know a regional incident like this, you be responsible and show restraint.
Don't destroy lives till the law has spoken.
wishful thinking.. but the media doesn't work like this, the media is out for the biggest headline and the most information possible... they don't care who gets hurt, especially if the people getting hurt is the ones their trying to portray as criminals.. the media doesn't give us facts and let us make up our own minds.. the media tells us how to view the story and what we should feel about it, it's very hard to restrict the media on something like this.. ... they won't get pushed around not to say something that's not against the law unless it's a matter of national security or something.
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Liability exists where the consequence of their actions is directly and logically progressed from the act, and foreseeable by a reasonable man in their situation. If you can prove that such a response (suicide) is a logical progression from them filming him, then you can charge them with manslaughter.
Probably not.
They'll still probably be hit with something, at least, but I doubt murder charges.
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EPT
