EPTOn October 01 2010 12:59 reprise wrote:
Just because you want to die, doesn't mean other people want you to.
Just because you want to die, doesn't mean other people want you to.
Well, then obviously those other people are quite selfish then.
Gay College Student Suicide after Webcam Broadcast - Page 11
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JinDesu
United States3990 Posts
Well, then obviously those other people are quite selfish then. | ||
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Kurr
Canada2338 Posts
On October 01 2010 12:59 reprise wrote: Just because you want to die, doesn't mean other people want you to. Because other people want you to live, doesn't mean you want to. And you're the one suffering. See, it works both way. I'm not trying to be an asshole but I really hate that argument. No one thinks : "Ha! I'm going to kill myself and make people sad!". I'm sure it's quite the opposite. People letting go of their suicidal thoughts because they think of the pain it would cause their family. However, sometimes people are in shock for one reason or another and they either don't think about it at all or they're at a point where they're willing to do it despite that. Reading some of the posts in this thread is really disheartening. It's like some of you think that people kill themselves to mess around with their family's emotions and you consider that selfish. Suicide is NOT about you. It's about the person who does the act. You have no idea what state of mind a person is in when they commit suicide. Neither do I. I can imagine it and I assume others can as well because we've all had times were nothing is going right and it slips our minds, but not to the degree of someone actually commiting suicide. What seems like nothing to us can be devastating to someone else, clearly demonstrated by the lack of empathy in this thread. I'm not saying that no one has ever killed themselves to inflict emotional pain on other people but those are an extremely small minority. There have been 2 suicides in my family and I never once thought they did it because they were selfish. Thinking someone is selfish because of suicide is such a distant reaction, I can't imagine someone feeling that way about someone close to them commiting suicide; especially if they know the reasons. | ||
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TOloseGT
United States1145 Posts
Without this kid's suicide, this would just be a prank that people laugh at. Now, I think the charges against the two people are way too severe. The kid killed himself, no one helped him along. The two people being charge had no idea he would be this unstable about it. What the roommate did was wrong, but that doesn't mean we should ruin TWO lives in some twisted form of justice. | ||
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Runnin
208 Posts
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oYsteR
United Kingdom142 Posts
On October 01 2010 13:14 Kurr wrote: Because other people want you to live, doesn't mean you want to. And you're the one suffering. See, it works both way. I'm not trying to be an asshole but I really hate that argument. No one thinks : "Ha! I'm going to kill myself and make people sad!". I'm sure it's quite the opposite. People letting go of their suicidal thoughts because they think of the pain it would cause their family. However, sometimes people are in shock for one reason or another and they either don't think about it at all or they're at a point where they're willing to do it despite that. Reading some of the posts in this thread is really disheartening. It's like some of you think that people kill themselves to mess around with their family's emotions and you consider that selfish. Suicide is NOT about you. It's about the person who does the act. You have no idea what state of mind a person is in when they commit suicide. Neither do I. I can imagine it and I assume others can as well because we've all had times were nothing is going right and it slips our minds, but not to the degree of someone actually commiting suicide. What seems like nothing to us can be devastating to someone else, clearly demonstrated by the lack of empathy in this thread. This post is not only accurate, but strongly felt. (and also accurate because of that strong feeling). In a forum like the one we are privilged to have on TL.net, I think we can all afford to brave enough to express the views held above. I'm not saying that no one has ever killed themselves to inflict emotional pain on other people but those are an extremely small minority. There have been 2 suicides in my family and I never once thought they did it because they were selfish. Thinking someone is selfish because of suicide is such a distant reaction, I can't imagine someone feeling that way about someone close to them commiting suicide; especially if they know the reasons. | ||
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reprise
Canada316 Posts
On October 01 2010 13:14 Kurr wrote: Because other people want you to live, doesn't mean you want to. And you're the one suffering. See, it works both way. I'm not trying to be an asshole but I really hate that argument. No one thinks : "Ha! I'm going to kill myself and make people sad!". I'm sure it's quite the opposite. People letting go of their suicidal thoughts because they think of the pain it would cause their family. However, sometimes people are in shock for one reason or another and they either don't think about it at all or they're at a point where they're willing to do it despite that. Reading some of the posts in this thread is really disheartening. It's like some of you think that people kill themselves to mess around with their family's emotions and you consider that selfish. Suicide is NOT about you. It's about the person who does the act. You have no idea what state of mind a person is in when they commit suicide. Neither do I. I can imagine it and I assume others can as well because we've all had times were nothing is going right and it slips our minds, but not to the degree of someone actually commiting suicide. What seems like nothing to us can be devastating to someone else, clearly demonstrated by the lack of empathy in this thread. I'm not saying that no one has ever killed themselves to inflict emotional pain on other people but those are an extremely small minority. There have been 2 suicides in my family and I never once thought they did it because they were selfish. Thinking someone is selfish because of suicide is such a distant reaction, I can't imagine someone feeling that way about someone close to them commiting suicide; especially if they know the reasons. They are deemed selfish because they haven't exhausted their options. No one looks at the person who took their own life as a selfish person, but they just look at the act itself as selfish. There's a reason why a lot of suicides are surprising, and especially for those that love them. It's because they haven't looked for help in other people, or have looked in the wrong places. No one commits suicide willy-nilly. It's not an impulsive act, there is a reason why people do it and that reason takes time to manifest. It's not a circular argument. | ||
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Mooga
United States575 Posts
On October 01 2010 13:16 TOloseGT wrote: I can't help but think that this wouldn't be this big a deal if the kid wasn't gay. Of course, you have the whole invasion of privacy issue, but is that even an issue when it's a shared dorm room? Is there an actual rule that says you have to leave your roommate alone when you legally have both rented the room? The gay kid probably wouldn't have wanted his love life to be broadcast live, but shit, you see stupid videos on youtube all the time. Without this kid's suicide, this would just be a prank that people laugh at. Now, I think the charges against the two people are way too severe. The kid killed himself, no one helped him along. The two people being charge had no idea he would be this unstable about it. What the roommate did was wrong, but that doesn't mean we should ruin TWO lives in some twisted form of justice. The media sensationalizes a lot of incidents involving cyber bullying. That's why you see stories about the dangers of facebook, how it can indirectly lead to a teenager's suicide, 4chan bullying some random kid on the internet and blaming it on ebaumsworld, etc. So it's not only because he's gay, although it probably made the story more sensational. That kind of prank is sick, even if you're long-time friends with the prankster. What I don't understand is why you would have sympathy for them. They should've considered the fact that they could be ruining this kids life when they decided to do this. Just because they thought it was a prank doesn't absolve them of taking responsibility for their actions. | ||
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Kurr
Canada2338 Posts
On October 01 2010 13:26 reprise wrote: They are deemed selfish because they haven't exhausted their options. No one looks at the person who took their own life as a selfish person, but they just look at the act itself as selfish. There's a reason why a lot of suicides are surprising, and especially for those that love them. It's because they haven't looked for help in other people, or have looked in the wrong places. No one commits suicide willy-nilly. It's not an impulsive act, there is a reason why people do it and that reason takes time to manifest. It's not a circular argument. If you put it that way, I can agree that it's not a circular argument. However, you assume that someone going through a major depression is going to share their problem. I've been through depression a few times before and I've never once talked about it to my family or friends. It didn't concern them in the state of mind that I was. It's fairly easy when you talk to someone to tell if they're depressed but it's something else to get them to share. I've never been to the point of trying to kill myself or planning it so I can only imagine it gets worse from there. If it's due to a shock like this event, I can definitely see it being much worse. He probably doesn't have many friends around yet being a freshman in university and his family is not around if he's living in a dorm (plus I imagine he didn't want to tell them about it). I feel it can be a partially impulsive act in a case like this. On October 01 2010 13:33 Mooga wrote: That kind of prank is sick, even if you're long-time friends with the prankster. What I don't understand is why you would have sympathy for them. They should've considered the fact that they could be ruining this kids life when they decided to do this. Just because they thought it was a prank doesn't absolve them of taking responsibility for their actions. I've been through my share of assholes when I lived in the dorms several years ago. I don't see this as a prank honestly. Pranks have a funny side and are done by friends to friends and they can laugh about it afterwards. This would pretty much never count as a prank if we take into consideration that he was pretty obviously uncomfortable with his sexuality and didn't want it to be known. It would be different if it was a very open person who they knew in advance would take this lightheartedly (and even then, still very creepy and invasion of privacy). In this case, it's just some people trying their hardest to cause someone else grief. Maybe I'm putting my own thoughts too much in the story but I doubt they were friends. I've had roommates who didn't like me who decided to play loud music until 4am every night for no real reason other than being a childish person. Some people are just assholes. There's really no need to think about it further. For some reason they derive pleasure from annoying/hurting/etc others. | ||
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aimaimaim
Philippines2167 Posts
Lets say I loaned a million dollars from you and spent it all and I can't pay you then I kill myself to have it easier. You don't think its selfish of me to use your HARD EARNED MONEY and not pay you? thought so  | ||
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TOloseGT
United States1145 Posts
On October 01 2010 13:33 Kurr wrote:In this case, it's just some people trying their hardest to cause someone else grief. Maybe I'm putting my own thoughts too much in the story but I doubt they were friends. I've had roommates who didn't like me who decided to play loud music until 4am every night for no real reason other than being a childish person. Some people are just assholes. There's really no need to think about it further. For some reason they derive pleasure from annoying/hurting/etc others. Lets leave emotion at the door please. They obviously did not go out of their way to cause harm to the guy. A webcam comes cheap nowadays. The roommate decided to be immature for one night and ended up making the worst mistake of his life. Even more sad is that he brought along his friend, who has shown no evidence of bearing ill intent to the guy, yet they're charging her all the same. This guy decided to kill himself, and in the process killed the lives of two bright, young people who most likely would have matured past this immature stage. Should one mistake cause this much grief? One ruined life is enough. | ||
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Roe
Canada6002 Posts
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XeliN
United Kingdom1755 Posts
On October 01 2010 15:37 TOloseGT wrote: Lets leave emotion at the door please. They obviously did not go out of their way to cause harm to the guy. A webcam comes cheap nowadays. The roommate decided to be immature for one night and ended up making the worst mistake of his life. Even more sad is that he brought along his friend, who has shown no evidence of bearing ill intent to the guy, yet they're charging her all the same. This guy decided to kill himself, and in the process killed the lives of two bright, young people who most likely would have matured past this immature stage. Should one mistake cause this much grief? One ruined life is enough. You should work in politics, this is misrepresentation and twisting at it's best. You think "immaturity" is a just excuse for these people who are college age? You think it adequately described as a "mistake"? And as to "They obviously did not go out of their way to cause harm to the guy" this is one of the most ignorant comments in this thread and from looking over it believe me thats saying alot. | ||
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BlackMesa
Kenya338 Posts
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aimaimaim
Philippines2167 Posts
On October 01 2010 15:45 Roe wrote: Neil Patrick Harris recently came out, I think. Idk how the media handled it though. i think thats old news .. he still legen-wait-for-it-dary though .. i dont understand why being gay is a big deal .. fag haters .. zzzz | ||
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TOloseGT
United States1145 Posts
On October 01 2010 15:50 XeliN wrote: You should work in politics, this is misrepresentation and twisting at it's best. You think "immaturity" is a just excuse for these people who are college age? You think it adequately described as a "mistake"? And as to "They obviously did not go out of their way to cause harm to the guy" this is one of the most ignorant comments in this thread and from looking over it believe me thats saying alot. I never used immaturity as an excuse, I used it as a fact. Do you honestly think college kids aren't capable of immature acts? And yes, I do believe it was a mistake, an error in judgment. Just as it was a mistake for the guy to kill himself. However, blaming those two for the suicide is just too easy. People want to point fingers, especially in these cases where an innocent dies. | ||
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NicolBolas
United States1388 Posts
On October 01 2010 15:37 TOloseGT wrote: Lets leave emotion at the door please. They obviously did not go out of their way to cause harm to the guy. A webcam comes cheap nowadays. The roommate decided to be immature for one night and ended up making the worst mistake of his life. Even more sad is that he brought along his friend, who has shown no evidence of bearing ill intent to the guy, yet they're charging her all the same. This guy decided to kill himself, and in the process killed the lives of two bright, young people who most likely would have matured past this immature stage. Should one mistake cause this much grief? One ruined life is enough. That's an interesting question. Should one mistake cause this much grief? It'd be a great world if the enormity of the results of our mistakes was equal to the effort (or malfeasance) in committing them. Sadly, that is not the real world. That's why it is important to act responsibly in all things. These two idiots pulled a prank and it went really, really wrong. But unforeseen consequences do not excuse you from taking the action that caused them. Maybe these two guys are like the people who think that they, and they alone, can drive drunk just fine. I don't have the slightest bit of sympathy for these two jerks. I don't care about what they intended to do, or what they felt they were doing, or how difficult it was for them to do it, or even what they thought would happen as a result. What I care about is what they did do, and what the consequences of that action are. And I hope they are prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. This was a tragedy. But it was a tragedy they caused. An example needs to be sent to all those people who pull "harmless" pranks: sometimes, they aren't so harmless. | ||
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evanthebouncy!
United States12816 Posts
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BlackJack
United States10574 Posts
It wouldn't have happened if he weren't gay, but it WOULD have happened if his sex life included BDSM or strapons or golden showers or beastiality etc. So it has less to do with "let's humiliate the fag on the internet" and a lot more to do with being intrigued by sex acts that less than 10% of the population participates in. | ||
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lostshard
United States95 Posts
On October 01 2010 15:37 TOloseGT wrote: Lets leave emotion at the door please. They obviously did not go out of their way to cause harm to the guy. A webcam comes cheap nowadays. The roommate decided to be immature for one night and ended up making the worst mistake of his life. Even more sad is that he brought along his friend, who has shown no evidence of bearing ill intent to the guy, yet they're charging her all the same. This guy decided to kill himself, and in the process killed the lives of two bright, young people who most likely would have matured past this immature stage. Should one mistake cause this much grief? One ruined life is enough. Lets leave logic at the door please. Drug users obviously do not go out of their way to cause harm to others. Drugs come cheap nowadays. The users decide to drive while intoxicated one night and ended up making the worst mistake of their lives. Even more sad is that the user can bring along her friend who show no evidence of bearing ill intent to others, yet affect the outcome of another person's life. see: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=150754 If they were bright they would not have acted in the fashion. There have been many "immature" people who have had to spend time in jail to mature out of the action they did. Filming someone doing the act and broadcasting is what they are getting in trouble for. So please take out your emotions before asking others to do so. | ||
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TOloseGT
United States1145 Posts
On October 01 2010 16:28 lostshard wrote: Lets leave logic at the door please. Drug users obviously do not go out of their way to cause harm to others. Drugs come cheap nowadays. The users decide to drive while intoxicated one night and ended up making the worst mistake of their lives. Even more sad is that the user can bring along her friend who show no evidence of bearing ill intent to others, yet affect the outcome of another person's life. see: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=150754 If they were bright they would not have acted in the fashion. There have been many "immature" people who have had to spend time in jail to mature out of the action they did. Filming someone doing the act and broadcasting is what they are getting in trouble for. So please take out your emotions before asking others to do so. It's interesting how you talk about logic, yet use unreasonable analogies to prove your point. | ||
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