EPTThese kids will get off lightly. They're not gonna ruin kids lives over this imo. Especially cause these kids are in college and not some slumdogs. That's the way life works unfortunately. But then again, these kids are in this situation because they need someone to take the heat for the death. So I guess in the end, /shrug.
Gay College Student Suicide after Webcam Broadcast - Page 10
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NIJ
1012 Posts
These kids will get off lightly. They're not gonna ruin kids lives over this imo. Especially cause these kids are in college and not some slumdogs. That's the way life works unfortunately. But then again, these kids are in this situation because they need someone to take the heat for the death. So I guess in the end, /shrug. | ||
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BlueBird.
United States3889 Posts
On October 01 2010 10:32 Dfgj wrote: Liability exists where the consequence of their actions is directly and logically progressed from the act, and foreseeable by a reasonable man in their situation. If you can prove that such a response (suicide) is a logical progression from them filming him, then you can charge them with manslaughter. Probably not. They'll still probably be hit with something, at least, but I doubt murder charges. Their probably gonna be advised by a lawyer to just go after the breach of privacy issue.. they might bring up manslaughter in court as a kind of .. look at what happened... kind of deal, but manslaughter won't hold up as far as I know | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On October 01 2010 10:27 Caller wrote: Bleh, sorry if my last post was a bit ragey. I had recently had to deal with some people contemplating suicide and I'm just sick of it and how people can proceed with a course of action that goes against every biological instinct. I just can't understand why people who have been given a great gift throw it away because they think that right at that moment it is bad. It's as spoiled as a child who breaks the game system his parents bought him because it wasn't the one he wanted. There are very few exceptions to when I feel suicide is justified. For instance, a) euthanasia, where people with terminal or unmanageable illnesses legally arrange their death to minimize their impact while trying to affect the world as soon as possible. b) people who know that all that remains for them is a show trial and a perversion of justice, such as defeated military commanders/political leaders. Like for instance, Hitler committing suicide, or the Japanese idea of seppuku, I find to be understandable-as they see no other way to preserve their honor, rather than disgracing their bloodline c) people whom have no outstanding obligations to anybody else provided they do it quietly d) people who do it for a greater good. For instance, I would consider that monk who burned himself alive to have done something meaningful with his demise-he was able to assist in the ending of an unnecessary conflict by doing so. This contrasts with other people who commit suicide, such as those that a) jump in front of moving vehicles, traumatizing the operator for life b) jump off buildings, traumatizing onlookers for life c) take up room in hospitals by overdosing d) be an attention whore about it. Especially if it involves a myspace or facebook message. This is basically the equivalent of streaking except that you die and its not funny. Death in all cases should be as peaceful and minimizing the negative impact to others as much as possible. People don't exactly try to catch a terminal disease so they can have other people's sympathy. Why should instantaneous death be any different? People can be in depression for like 20 years. When does the "everything is temporary" argument stop helping people? | ||
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Caller
Poland8075 Posts
On October 01 2010 10:35 FabledIntegral wrote: People can be in depression for like 20 years. When does the "everything is temporary" argument stop helping people? Since you clearly didn't read what I wrote before you pulled up something that I already acknowledged I was raging about, I'm going to ignore this and ask you a question. Do you think suicide is always justified? | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On October 01 2010 10:38 Caller wrote: Since you clearly didn't read what I wrote before you pulled up something that I already acknowledged I was raging about, I'm going to ignore this and ask you a question. Do you think suicide is always justified? I've actually followed this thread quite thoroughly and don't recall you saying anything of the sort, so can you just do me a favor and quote where you said that? Not saying you're wrong, just save me some time. And no, I don't think it's always justified. I think you have to look at it on a case by case basis. | ||
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.risingdragoon
United States3021 Posts
On October 01 2010 10:31 BraveGhost wrote: wishful thinking.. but the media doesn't work like this, the media is out for the biggest headline and the most information possible... they don't care who gets hurt, especially if the people getting hurt is the ones their trying to portray as criminals.. the media doesn't give us facts and let us make up our own minds.. the media tells us how to view the story and what we should feel about it, it's very hard to restrict the media on something like this.. ... they won't get pushed around not to say something that's not against the law unless it's a matter of national security or something. Sad. They even put up pictures of the two students. They'll need to take 1-2 years off Rutger even if they get off light, if they don't get kicked out first. Maybe change their name at the school register, change their appearance, all that. Especially the girl, can you imagine if this happened to you? That somebody does something in your room and drags you along? Yeah some of us would protest, but if the guy insisted or said he'd take responsibility pretty much everybody would let it happen. Nobody saw suicide coming. That's just how people do in US. We overreact and ask for a pound of flesh after the fact. But really nobody's gonna do much to prevent it. | ||
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Caller
Poland8075 Posts
On October 01 2010 10:43 FabledIntegral wrote: I've actually followed this thread quite thoroughly and don't recall you saying anything of the sort, so can you just do me a favor and quote where you said that? Not saying you're wrong, just save me some time. And no, I don't think it's always justified. I think you have to look at it on a case by case basis. the first sentence of that post you quoted said "sorry if my post was ragey." I know depression is finnicky like that, but I wasn't thinking about it at the time, just about my silly friend who wanted to kill himself because his girlfriend broke up with him. So, what would be some criteria for your "case by case" basis. | ||
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aimaimaim
Philippines2167 Posts
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IAttackYou
United States330 Posts
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On October 01 2010 10:45 Caller wrote: the first sentence of that post you quoted said "sorry if my post was ragey." I know depression is finnicky like that, but I wasn't thinking about it at the time, just about my silly friend who wanted to kill himself because his girlfriend broke up with him. So, what would be some criteria for your "case by case" basis. Oh I assumed you meant addressing depression for ~20 years, since that was the content of my post... you just seem to address suicidal thoughts as something that are very temporary and will go away soon is all. I had suicidal thoughts when my first GF broke up with me and was still crazy about her like ~4 years after we broke up. And I know it was dumb, just couldn't help it, but it's cool over it now. You'd just have to look at the situation for suicide. For example, to use a gay person as an example. - Parents are super ashamed at you for being homosexual, they don't support you, and they tell you you're living in sin and God hates you and you're an embarrassment to the family - Socially outcasted in a society that is anti-gay, such as a small town Christian village, or many locations in Asia, Middle East, etc. For whatever reasons, you can't move. - You are in constant self-doubt about your own worth. You have no reason to think your life is valuable when you're surrounded by people who claim you are a disappointment. You have no one to connect with because other people that are homosexual aren't open about it. - You can't get into the military because you are gay, and you school is already a tortuous enough environment. You see hardly any way to progress. - You are constantly bullied wherever you go, whether it's at school, home, park, etc. You are constantly harassed by people who take delight in putting you down for who you are. - The government is against you as well, not granting you many liberties as a straight person, effectively making you a second class citizen. Support groups as a result are very hard to find. Or another example, you're a slave and have nothing to look forward to in life. Or another example, all your close friends and close family members die in a plane crash. You have no immediate family left alive. You're atheist and you see no problem with killing yourself because of no afterlife, and "waiting for the depression to go away," is not worth it to you. | ||
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.risingdragoon
United States3021 Posts
I'll leave a letter saying it was FabledIntegral's post that pushed me over the railing. | ||
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BlackJack
United States10574 Posts
There is a difference between celebrity sex tapes and this. Celebrity sex tapes feature celebrities that know they are being filmed and are compliant in the filming. This is voyeurism and a accurate analogy to a celebrity would be what happened to Erin Andrews. The guy in that incident got 30 months in prison and these people are facing multiple years in prison as well so there is not much of a double standard there. | ||
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matjlav
Germany2435 Posts
On October 01 2010 09:40 SaDGoWu wrote: All i'm going to say is that the idea of a dormitory with shared rooms is the worst thing that could ever happen. The majority of the population does/will do these kinds of stupid things, so it doesn't make any sense whatsoever to share a living space, or for that matter a bedroom with some random person who just so happens to be going to your college as statistically speaking, hes probably an idiot, and a college education does little if anything to fix that. Also can someone please explain to me how you came up with the idea that suicide is selfish and the student was short-sighted? Just because you would rather live 50+ years doesn't mean he would, your kind of applying a judgement about your own desires and assuming that your desire must be the correct one and that anyone who thinks differently surely hasn't thought this through and is short sighted. That kind of sounds pretty self centered to me. Sorry, but... there's really no doubt that the kid overreacted to commit suicide. A few people know he's gay; some freaks that thought it was a good idea watched him having sex. These simply aren't things that you can't get over. I'm pretty sure that some form of self-hatred about his homosexuality played into his decision. I mean... it's not like he was on national television. Naturally he would probably hate his roommate for the rest of the year, but it's not like no one's ever had to deal with that. Maybe his family would have been mad or something. I obviously don't know every detail of his life. But anyone that commits suicide jsut because of what some bigoted assholes think is making a mistake. | ||
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lightrise
United States1355 Posts
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Vei
United States2845 Posts
On October 01 2010 06:08 Caller wrote: Rather than talk about privacy, I think we need a serious discussion on how fucking stupid suicide is. Every religion and even just plain old evolutionary thought discusses suicide as being a waste of everything. Suicide is probably the ultimate selfish thing to do. When people try and OD on pills and whatnot, all they are doing is wasting medical resources that other people may need, just because they can't deal with a period of angst. Sure, it might be really hard on you, but how is it just that you can waste people's time and energy, and threaten the lives of others (by depleting medical resources) just because of your own self-pity and angst? Especially teenagers. They fail to see how people struggle to survive in places and they take that gift of not having to worry about surviving the next day and just throwing it away. They fail to understand what parents have spent a HUGE portion of their lives doing. This guy must have had super parents backing him up to become such an accomplished violinist. Just because his roommate streamed video of him making out with a guy he throws all that away? Ungrateful is what it is. Homophobia (thought it is a huge problem, and I am as guilty as the next person) isn't the issue here. It could have been some other kind of stimulus and this kid likely would've still thrown it away. I know people who have committed suicide just because they couldn't get tenure. I know people who have nearly thrown their lives away for some of the most stupid reasons. I know kids who have thought about suicide just because they were being bullied at school. So was I! I was being bullied a LOT in middle school, but I took it like a man and changed so that was no longer the case. There was a J-drama I watched that best sums up how hypocritical suicide is. A person is shown a video of their open heart surgery, especially how their heart is beating. The doctor remarks how ironic it is that while she is trying to throw her life away, that little heart is like a baby struggling to stay alive. And the thought that if you killed yourself you would be taking this baby down with you too-that perhaps is the feeling we need to convey to stupid angsty people. Suicide shouldn't be deified or used as support for a cause like we see here. Suicide isn't something to turn people into martyrs. It should be ridiculed, laughed at, and just made to be the cowardly, selfish act that it is, so that the only people that end up doing it are the cowardly selfish people that we would be better off without. How is suicide selfish? Just because you've never been depressed to the point that you don't want to live doesn't mean you can't conceivably understand how someone else might want to. What's selfish is people expecting people to live through immense suffering for their sake. No one suicides to become a martyr, they suicide because they are suffering (mostly). Islamic martyrs or whatever, sure that's obviously lame (any religion is). Your analogy about the heart beating like a baby struggling to live was extremely dumb by the way. How is that apt at all? Japanese culture is the worst when it comes to "selfishness." The amount of pressure they put on their society is the reason they have the highest suicide rate in the world. By the way, homophobia isn't something everyone feels. You being as guilty as the next person... maybe where you're from. Also lol at you saying people OD'ing are wasting pills that other people need. There's no shortage of pills, they are expensive because of R&D costs, not supply. Furthermore, the amount of resources a suicide victim frees up greatly outweighs this, so your argument on that is bad in that respect as well. | ||
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reprise
Canada316 Posts
On October 01 2010 12:55 Vei wrote:How is suicide selfish? Just because you want to die, doesn't mean other people want you to. | ||
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Mooga
United States575 Posts
On October 01 2010 11:57 matjlav wrote: Sorry, but... there's really no doubt that the kid overreacted to commit suicide. A few people know he's gay; some freaks that thought it was a good idea watched him having sex. These simply aren't things that you can't get over. I'm pretty sure that some form of self-hatred about his homosexuality played into his decision. I mean... it's not like he was on national television. Naturally he would probably hate his roommate for the rest of the year, but it's not like no one's ever had to deal with that. Maybe his family would have been mad or something. I obviously don't know every detail of his life. But anyone that commits suicide jsut because of what some bigoted assholes think is making a mistake. It's not what some bigoted assholes thought that caused this, it's what they did. They barely knew the guy and then they violate his privacy by taping him having sex with a hidden camera. That's pretty fucked up, even if he wasn't gay. If the guy who did this had no empathy for publicly humiliating this guy, then why should I have any sympathy for his own life being ruined? Also, how do you think he found out about the video tape? Hmmm. Probably because someone told him about it through a rumor. I'm pretty sure more than the initial 5 or so people knew about this by the time this guy committed suicide, especially since he video taped and twattered about it. You don't need to be publicly humiliated on national television to feel very humiliated if your entire dorm hall knows something like that. | ||
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whiteguycash
United States476 Posts
On October 01 2010 12:55 Vei wrote: No one suicides to become a martyr, they suicide because they are suffering (mostly). Islamic martyrs or whatever, sure that's obviously lame (any religion is). like the pot calling the kettle black. don't bring religion (any religion) into this discussion. You are such a hypocrite to praise one persons reason for suicide, and then ridicule another. Sorry, you don't get to be the judge of that. | ||
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ktp
United States797 Posts
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Deathstar
9150 Posts
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