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Active: 1466 users

Reagan's Dead - Page 4

Forum Index > General Forum
Post a Reply
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tiffany
Profile Joined November 2003
3664 Posts
June 05 2004 11:53 GMT
#61
harding = worst president ever
x[ReaPeR]x
Profile Joined February 2003
United States3447 Posts
June 05 2004 11:56 GMT
#62
On June 05 2004 20:47 STIMEY d okgm fish wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2004 20:43 Arbiter[frolix] wrote:
The whole point of this thread was to discuss Reagan's life and politics. Perhaps only those who approved of Reagan should post?


would u say the same thing on the day hitler died?


Don't compare Reagan with Hitler, period, it's just stupid.
ILoveOOv ownZ everyone!!! ~ Lamer List: Mynock, naventus
Servolisk
Profile Blog Joined February 2003
United States5241 Posts
June 05 2004 11:58 GMT
#63
This isn't his funeral, and all of us are about as distant from him as possible.. so no need to hold back opinions.
wtf was that signature
x[ReaPeR]x
Profile Joined February 2003
United States3447 Posts
June 05 2004 11:59 GMT
#64
On June 05 2004 20:58 Servolisk wrote:
This isn't his funeral, and all of us are about as distant from him as possible.. so no need to hold back opinions.


Dude it's still not right though...
ILoveOOv ownZ everyone!!! ~ Lamer List: Mynock, naventus
Servolisk
Profile Blog Joined February 2003
United States5241 Posts
June 05 2004 11:59 GMT
#65
its not comparing hitler to Reagan, extreme examples are good for illustration... :/
wtf was that signature
Countdown
Profile Joined February 2004
1217 Posts
June 05 2004 12:02 GMT
#66
On June 05 2004 20:53 STIMEY d okgm fish wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2004 20:51 Countdown wrote:
On June 05 2004 20:40 Arbiter[frolix] wrote:
On June 05 2004 19:23 Countdown wrote:
On June 05 2004 18:47 Arbiter[frolix] wrote:
The President denounced the left-wing Sandinista government of Nicaragua as a threat to peace in Central America, and he repeatedly requested military aid for the anti-Sandinista guerrillas, known as contras


The contras were an evil gang of thugs and murderers, there is no two ways about it.


I'm sure the Sandnistas were cute little angles


You and I have been through this before. Whatever the Sandanistas did or did not do there was no justification for the Reagan administration funding a proxy army's atrocities against an impoverished people. Rape and murder of unwitting members of a third world population by a well-equipped and well funded gang of thugs does not seem to me to be an appropriate use of US taxpayers' dollars.


We didn't give money to have contras rape and murder people. We paid them to overthrow an opressive government. Atrocities are committed in all wars.


we didnt give chemicals to saddam to kill the kurds either and we didnt give money and training to bin laden to kill americans. but that doesnt mean that the decisions ultimately proved irresponsible or that there was no way for us to know better before doing those things -- there might have been, or there might not have been, and that is the issue: not whether or not we intended them to do those things, but whether we could have known they might in the first place.


um yeah, i can't read that.

If Saddam were in power, I would support giving weapons to the Kurds to overthrow Saddam. If Hitler were in power, I would support giving Jews weapons and money to overthrow Hitler.

Would you complain if the Jews committed atrocoties fighting the Nazis?

However, I don't know nearly as much as Arbiter and I think he thinks the majorities of Nicaragua support Ortego and I don't think they did. If it weren't for the Contras, do you think there would have been an election? Or Democracy in Nicaragua?
Countdown
Profile Joined February 2004
1217 Posts
Last Edited: 2004-06-05 12:03:37
June 05 2004 12:03 GMT
#67
On June 05 2004 20:53 tiffany wrote:
harding = worst president ever


Most corrupt. I don't know about worst

not that that has anything to do with your opinion
Pob
Profile Joined February 2004
880 Posts
June 05 2004 12:07 GMT
#68
On June 05 2004 20:34 NuclearAntelope wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2004 20:31 Pob wrote:
On June 05 2004 18:43 Countdown wrote:
On June 05 2004 18:40 FrozenArbiter wrote:
Excal, if you'd write/find a bio of him we'd get both extremes and thus might be able to find a middle way (the non fanatics in here :D)


During Reagan's administration marked
changes were made to the tax code and economic statistics showed a major change
for the better. In 1986 Reagan introduced the
Tax Reform act of 1986. The tax reform act of 1986 chopped taxes, and indexed
taxes for inflation as well. During Reagan's first term the inflation rate was
at -5.7%, unemployment was at 1.4%, interest rates were at -.7, and the gross
national product was 7%.


and this is supposed to be good news? -5.7% inflation is bad , it shows a shrinking economy , good inflation is the 3-5% mark.And i never bother with unemployment figures they are always sexed up.... don't reply unless you know something about economics thx

you must be a true economic genius to intertwine unemployment with sex.


it means they made the figures look better than they really are , unemployment figures never count hardcore unemployed and many other minority groups , eg they have to have a seperate section for 'youth unemployment' because if they added youth and normal unemployment the total figure would skyrocket leading to discouraged voters , ditto hardcore unemployed and other minority groups so if you think that is that REAL unemployment rate of the USA you are a fool
NuclearAntelope
Profile Joined February 2003
United States1369 Posts
June 05 2004 12:11 GMT
#69
On June 05 2004 21:07 Pob wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2004 20:34 NuclearAntelope wrote:
On June 05 2004 20:31 Pob wrote:
On June 05 2004 18:43 Countdown wrote:
On June 05 2004 18:40 FrozenArbiter wrote:
Excal, if you'd write/find a bio of him we'd get both extremes and thus might be able to find a middle way (the non fanatics in here :D)


During Reagan's administration marked
changes were made to the tax code and economic statistics showed a major change
for the better. In 1986 Reagan introduced the
Tax Reform act of 1986. The tax reform act of 1986 chopped taxes, and indexed
taxes for inflation as well. During Reagan's first term the inflation rate was
at -5.7%, unemployment was at 1.4%, interest rates were at -.7, and the gross
national product was 7%.


and this is supposed to be good news? -5.7% inflation is bad , it shows a shrinking economy , good inflation is the 3-5% mark.And i never bother with unemployment figures they are always sexed up.... don't reply unless you know something about economics thx

you must be a true economic genius to intertwine unemployment with sex.


it means they made the figures look better than they really are , unemployment figures never count hardcore unemployed and many other minority groups , eg they have to have a seperate section for 'youth unemployment' because if they added youth and normal unemployment the total figure would skyrocket leading to discouraged voters , ditto hardcore unemployed and other minority groups so if you think that is that REAL unemployment rate of the USA you are a fool

i never said i believed that figure to be the true unemployment rate of the USA, i was implying you shouldn't use terms like 'sexed up' when trying to prove a point about economics.
people are similar in nature. its the experience of life that makes them so different.
Arbiter[frolix]
Profile Joined January 2004
United Kingdom2674 Posts
June 05 2004 12:18 GMT
#70
On June 05 2004 20:47 STIMEY d okgm fish wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2004 20:43 Arbiter[frolix] wrote:
The whole point of this thread was to discuss Reagan's life and politics. Perhaps only those who approved of Reagan should post?


would u say the same thing on the day hitler died?




My comment "Perhaps only those who approved of Reagan should post?" was intended as a wry statement in response to Excal. Plainly, I think criticism of Reagan is perfectly justified and not inappropriate in a thread such as this.
We are vigilant.
Excalibur_Z
Profile Joined October 2002
United States12240 Posts
June 05 2004 12:23 GMT
#71
On June 05 2004 21:18 Arbiter[frolix] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2004 20:47 STIMEY d okgm fish wrote:
On June 05 2004 20:43 Arbiter[frolix] wrote:
The whole point of this thread was to discuss Reagan's life and politics. Perhaps only those who approved of Reagan should post?


would u say the same thing on the day hitler died?




My comment "Perhaps only those who approved of Reagan should post?" was intended as a wry statement in response to Excal. Plainly, I think criticism of Reagan is perfectly justified and not inappropriate in a thread such as this.


Maybe in the future, but not on the day he died. =[
Moderator
Arbiter[frolix]
Profile Joined January 2004
United Kingdom2674 Posts
June 05 2004 12:26 GMT
#72
If it weren't for the Contras, do you think there would have been an election? Or Democracy in Nicaragua?


There were elections in Nicaragua. The Sandanistas won. Independent observers validated the result and said the rule of the Sandanista government was legitimate. Several years later, in accordance with their stated commitment to democratic government, the Sandanistas lost a second election and left power peacefully.

Nicaragua under the Sandanistas was vastly more democratic than a significant number of other regimes being supported by the Reagan administration, such as Saddam Hussein's for instance. The idea that Nicaragua needed to be subjected to a vicious assault by a proxy army in order to restore democracy does not stand up to the slightest scrutiny.
We are vigilant.
Arbiter[frolix]
Profile Joined January 2004
United Kingdom2674 Posts
June 05 2004 12:27 GMT
#73
Maybe in the future, but not on the day he died. =[


Well, as is so often the case, we disagree.
We are vigilant.
EAGER-beaver
Profile Joined March 2004
Canada2799 Posts
Last Edited: 2004-06-05 12:32:40
June 05 2004 12:32 GMT
#74
I can't stand the way the media is idolizing this guy. Hello? Did everyone in America just get a lobotomy? To be blunt, this guy was a huge fuck up, at almost everything. I whatched this one gut churning interview with one of his "close friends" on ABC, who kept going on and on about his wonderful family life. But Reagan got divorced, and his kids hate him, so where the fuck is abc getting this shit? To add to the heaps of media diahrea they kept going on, and on, and on, about surviving a "terrorist attack". Call me crazy, but I thought that was an assasination attempt. Do they expect the public to sympathize for this bastard because they used the word terrorist? What the ass licking media has refused to point out is his long list of fuck ups, which I'm too drunk post right now. Google ronald, and read about his glorious military endevours in other countries. Only Bush tops this guy.

Good riddance Reagan, you won't be able to slime your way into heaven this time.
Simon and Garfunkel rock my face off
SoLsiTO
Profile Joined April 2003
United States573 Posts
Last Edited: 2004-06-05 12:36:53
June 05 2004 12:34 GMT
#75
Ain't karma a bitch. Lets not forget the AIDS fiasco...
They fill the children full of hate to fight an old man's war and die upon the road to peace
x[ReaPeR]x
Profile Joined February 2003
United States3447 Posts
June 05 2004 12:39 GMT
#76
On June 05 2004 21:26 Arbiter[frolix] wrote:
Show nested quote +
If it weren't for the Contras, do you think there would have been an election? Or Democracy in Nicaragua?


There were elections in Nicaragua. The Sandanistas won. Independent observers validated the result and said the rule of the Sandanista government was legitimate. Several years later, in accordance with their stated commitment to democratic government, the Sandanistas lost a second election and left power peacefully.

Nicaragua under the Sandanistas was vastly more democratic than a significant number of other regimes being supported by the Reagan administration, such as Saddam Hussein's for instance. The idea that Nicaragua needed to be subjected to a vicious assault by a proxy army in order to restore democracy does not stand up to the slightest scrutiny.


Everything you said was pretty much true. Although I think there should be a little scrutiny involved, the point is that there is Democratic government now, which is good. So why do people bitch so much?
ILoveOOv ownZ everyone!!! ~ Lamer List: Mynock, naventus
chobopeon
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
United States7342 Posts
June 05 2004 12:45 GMT
#77
On June 05 2004 18:40 FrozenArbiter wrote:
Excal, if you'd write/find a bio of him we'd get both extremes and thus might be able to find a middle way (the non fanatics in here :D)


non fanatics? what was wrote was true, it wasn't really his opinion that we were the largest debtor nation.
:O
WhizKid77
Profile Joined November 2003
China682 Posts
June 05 2004 13:16 GMT
#78
On June 05 2004 21:32 EAGER-beaver wrote:
I can't stand the way the media is idolizing this guy. Hello? Did everyone in America just get a lobotomy? To be blunt, this guy was a huge fuck up, at almost everything. I whatched this one gut churning interview with one of his "close friends" on ABC, who kept going on and on about his wonderful family life. But Reagan got divorced, and his kids hate him, so where the fuck is abc getting this shit? To add to the heaps of media diahrea they kept going on, and on, and on, about surviving a "terrorist attack". Call me crazy, but I thought that was an assasination attempt. Do they expect the public to sympathize for this bastard because they used the word terrorist? What the ass licking media has refused to point out is his long list of fuck ups, which I'm too drunk post right now. Google ronald, and read about his glorious military endevours in other countries. Only Bush tops this guy.

Good riddance Reagan, you won't be able to slime your way into heaven this time.


hahaha, go canadians. =P
hay guys u thare???
STIMEY d okgm fish
Profile Joined August 2003
Canada6140 Posts
June 05 2004 13:19 GMT
#79
On June 05 2004 21:02 Countdown wrote:
um yeah, i can't read that.


stfu then wtf.
naventus
Profile Blog Joined February 2004
United States1337 Posts
June 05 2004 13:43 GMT
#80
Did any of you conservatives listen to his final speech:

"The past few days when I've been at that window upstairs, I've thought a bit of the `shining city upon a hill.' The phrase comes from John Winthrop, who wrote it to describe the America he imagined. What he imagined was important because he was an early Pilgrim, an early freedom man. He journeyed here on what today we'd call a little wooden boat; and like the other Pilgrims, he was looking for a home that would be free. I've spoken of the shining city all my political life, but I don't know if I ever quite communicated what I saw when I said it. But in my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still."

Hey guys! It's fine to contort the truth. Yea! Because like Excalibur said, it's a mark of a good communicator right? Because we can understand watered down lies, we should accept them, right?

You want to know what's wrong:

1) Reagan talks about learning American history earlier on in the speech, but contradicts it here with his warped version of history.
2) Winthrop = Puritan not Pilgrim. No big deal, small clarification.
3) "City on a Hill" not about America, but about religion.
4) Puritans were some of the most close-minded and intolerant people. Fuck open gates for everyone.

This not an attack on Reagan, though I dislike him, but an attack on Excalibur's point about Reagan's "masterful communication skillz".
hmm.
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