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On June 05 2004 19:07 x[ReaPeR]x wrote: Show nested quote +On June 05 2004 19:05 STIMEY d okgm fish wrote:
like bush, reagan gave money to his rich buddies and tried to pass it off as good for "the economy" but it's not his fault it's probably those evil guys underneath him that got to tell him what's what (also like bush). ... Well the economy was really good under Reagan so I'm not seeing the problem really...
Not really. The economy was failing at the start and everyone started to trash talk reaganomics, and Reagan is like "just wait" or something, and then eventually the economy exploded. As he was leaving office the economy went back down. Up, down, up, down. You can't say it isn't Bush's fault for a sluggish economy and then give credit to Reagan for a good economy. The economy goes in cycles, and not much can be done to prevent it. I know this because I took an economics class in High School. I would explain how this works, but I failed that class.
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On June 05 2004 18:47 Arbiter[frolix] wrote: Show nested quote +The President denounced the left-wing Sandinista government of Nicaragua as a threat to peace in Central America, and he repeatedly requested military aid for the anti-Sandinista guerrillas, known as contras The contras were an evil gang of thugs and murderers, there is no two ways about it.
I'm sure the Sandnistas were cute little angles 
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On June 05 2004 19:22 Countdown wrote: Show nested quote +On June 05 2004 19:07 x[ReaPeR]x wrote: On June 05 2004 19:05 STIMEY d okgm fish wrote:
like bush, reagan gave money to his rich buddies and tried to pass it off as good for "the economy" but it's not his fault it's probably those evil guys underneath him that got to tell him what's what (also like bush). ... Well the economy was really good under Reagan so I'm not seeing the problem really... Not really. The economy was failing at the start and everyone started to trash talk reaganomics, and Reagan is like "just wait" or something, and then eventually the economy exploded. As he was leaving office the economy went back down. Up, down, up, down. You can't say it isn't Bush's fault for a sluggish economy and then give credit to Reagan for a good economy. The economy goes in cycles, and not much can be done to prevent it. I know this because I took an economics class in High School. I would explain how this works, but I failed that class.
I'm not saying it was Reaganomics that made the economy good (because I too have had lessons on the business cycle) but what I am saying is that giving money to "evil" businessmen wasn't somehow evil either.
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On June 05 2004 19:01 x[ReaPeR]x wrote: Show nested quote +On June 05 2004 18:07 FrinkX wrote:
He was the second worst president America has ever had.
The first being the United States' current president. . What about... Martin Van Buren Zachary Taylor Franklin Pierce James Buchannan Andrew Johnson Ulysses S. Grant Rutherford B. Hayes Benjamin Harrison Warren G. Harding Herbert Hoover Lyndon B. Johnson Jimmy Carter Bill Clinton All far worse Presidents than Reagan and George W. Bush.
Purely your opinion. Bill Clinton to me is one of the best presidents I've ever known, yes I may be young but I still think his policies were great.
I also wonder, if Bill Clinton died, would Excalibur pay his respects or would he merely call him a liberal hippie peacenick who ruined America?
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On June 05 2004 19:36 Gryffindor_us wrote: Show nested quote +On June 05 2004 19:01 x[ReaPeR]x wrote: On June 05 2004 18:07 FrinkX wrote:
He was the second worst president America has ever had.
The first being the United States' current president. . What about... Martin Van Buren Zachary Taylor Franklin Pierce James Buchannan Andrew Johnson Ulysses S. Grant Rutherford B. Hayes Benjamin Harrison Warren G. Harding Herbert Hoover Lyndon B. Johnson Jimmy Carter Bill Clinton All far worse Presidents than Reagan and George W. Bush. Purely your opinion. Bill Clinton to me is one of the best presidents I've ever known, yes I may be young but I still think his policies were great. I also wonder, if Bill Clinton died, would Excalibur pay his respects or would he merely call him a liberal hippie peacenick who ruined America?
Dunno about Excalibur, but I would be willing to lay off for a few days.
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United States12252 Posts
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United States12252 Posts
On June 05 2004 19:36 Gryffindor_us wrote:
I also wonder, if Bill Clinton died, would Excalibur pay his respects or would he merely call him a liberal hippie peacenick who ruined America?
Of course I would pay my respects. Just because you disagree with someone doesn't mean you openly attack them when they die. That is the most disgusting thing of all - to spit on someone's grave; especially someone as widely loved by Americans as Reagan.
And I can sense some relativist going to say "would you pay your respects to Hitler?" Well Bill Clinton wasn't our mortal enemy, and he wasn't evil incarnate.
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Reagan spend his entire life fighting communism. Even when he was an actor in hollywood he fought with unions and leaders to keep out communism.
Most important role of a presidency is as a symbol for americans of America. And no one played the role of a president better than Reagan. Case closed.
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United States12252 Posts
On June 05 2004 19:59 Chobohobo wrote:
Reagan spend his entire life fighting communism. Even when he was an actor in hollywood he fought with unions and leaders to keep out communism.
Most important role of a presidency is as a symbol for americans of America. And no one played the role of a president better than Reagan. Case closed.
That's exactly right.
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On June 05 2004 18:43 Countdown wrote: Show nested quote +On June 05 2004 18:40 FrozenArbiter wrote:
Excal, if you'd write/find a bio of him we'd get both extremes and thus might be able to find a middle way (the non fanatics in here :D) During Reagan's administration marked changes were made to the tax code and economic statistics showed a major change for the better. In 1986 Reagan introduced the Tax Reform act of 1986. The tax reform act of 1986 chopped taxes, and indexed taxes for inflation as well. During Reagan's first term the inflation rate was at -5.7%, unemployment was at 1.4%, interest rates were at -.7, and the gross national product was 7%.
and this is supposed to be good news? -5.7% inflation is bad , it shows a shrinking economy , good inflation is the 3-5% mark.And i never bother with unemployment figures they are always sexed up.... don't reply unless you know something about economics thx
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On June 05 2004 20:31 Pob wrote: Show nested quote +On June 05 2004 18:43 Countdown wrote: On June 05 2004 18:40 FrozenArbiter wrote:
Excal, if you'd write/find a bio of him we'd get both extremes and thus might be able to find a middle way (the non fanatics in here :D) During Reagan's administration marked changes were made to the tax code and economic statistics showed a major change for the better. In 1986 Reagan introduced the Tax Reform act of 1986. The tax reform act of 1986 chopped taxes, and indexed taxes for inflation as well. During Reagan's first term the inflation rate was at -5.7%, unemployment was at 1.4%, interest rates were at -.7, and the gross national product was 7%. and this is supposed to be good news? -5.7% inflation is bad , it shows a shrinking economy , good inflation is the 3-5% mark.And i never bother with unemployment figures they are always sexed up.... don't reply unless you know something about economics thx
you must be a true economic genius to intertwine unemployment with sex.
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United Kingdom2674 Posts
On June 05 2004 19:23 Countdown wrote: Show nested quote +On June 05 2004 18:47 Arbiter[frolix] wrote: The President denounced the left-wing Sandinista government of Nicaragua as a threat to peace in Central America, and he repeatedly requested military aid for the anti-Sandinista guerrillas, known as contras The contras were an evil gang of thugs and murderers, there is no two ways about it. I'm sure the Sandnistas were cute little angles
You and I have been through this before. Whatever the Sandanistas did or did not do there was no justification for the Reagan administration funding a proxy army's atrocities against an impoverished people. Rape and murder of unwitting members of a third world population by a well-equipped and well funded gang of thugs does not seem to me to be an appropriate use of US taxpayers' dollars.
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United Kingdom2674 Posts
On June 05 2004 19:45 Excalibur_Z wrote: Show nested quote +On June 05 2004 19:36 Gryffindor_us wrote:
I also wonder, if Bill Clinton died, would Excalibur pay his respects or would he merely call him a liberal hippie peacenick who ruined America? Of course I would pay my respects. Just because you disagree with someone doesn't mean you openly attack them when they die. That is the most disgusting thing of all - to spit on someone's grave; especially someone as widely loved by Americans as Reagan. And I can sense some relativist going to say "would you pay your respects to Hitler?" Well Bill Clinton wasn't our mortal enemy, and he wasn't evil incarnate.
The whole point of this thread was to discuss Reagan's life and politics. Perhaps only those who approved of Reagan should post?
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On June 05 2004 20:43 Arbiter[frolix] wrote:
The whole point of this thread was to discuss Reagan's life and politics. Perhaps only those who approved of Reagan should post?
would u say the same thing on the day hitler died?
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On June 05 2004 20:40 Arbiter[frolix] wrote: Show nested quote +On June 05 2004 19:23 Countdown wrote: On June 05 2004 18:47 Arbiter[frolix] wrote: The President denounced the left-wing Sandinista government of Nicaragua as a threat to peace in Central America, and he repeatedly requested military aid for the anti-Sandinista guerrillas, known as contras The contras were an evil gang of thugs and murderers, there is no two ways about it. I'm sure the Sandnistas were cute little angles You and I have been through this before. Whatever the Sandanistas did or did not do there was no justification for the Reagan administration funding a proxy army's atrocities against an impoverished people. Rape and murder of unwitting members of a third world population by a well-equipped and well funded gang of thugs does not seem to me to be an appropriate use of US taxpayers' dollars.
We didn't give money to have contras rape and murder people. We paid them to overthrow an opressive government. Atrocities are committed in all wars.
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On June 05 2004 20:51 Countdown wrote: Show nested quote +On June 05 2004 20:40 Arbiter[frolix] wrote: On June 05 2004 19:23 Countdown wrote: On June 05 2004 18:47 Arbiter[frolix] wrote: The President denounced the left-wing Sandinista government of Nicaragua as a threat to peace in Central America, and he repeatedly requested military aid for the anti-Sandinista guerrillas, known as contras The contras were an evil gang of thugs and murderers, there is no two ways about it. I'm sure the Sandnistas were cute little angles You and I have been through this before. Whatever the Sandanistas did or did not do there was no justification for the Reagan administration funding a proxy army's atrocities against an impoverished people. Rape and murder of unwitting members of a third world population by a well-equipped and well funded gang of thugs does not seem to me to be an appropriate use of US taxpayers' dollars. We didn't give money to have contras rape and murder people. We paid them to overthrow an opressive government. Atrocities are committed in all wars.
we didnt give chemicals to saddam to kill the kurds either and we didnt give money and training to bin laden to kill americans. but that doesnt mean that the decisions ultimately proved irresponsible or that there was no way for us to know better before doing those things -- there might have been, or there might not have been, and that is the issue: not whether or not we intended them to do those things, but whether we could have known they might in the first place.
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EPT
