Wikileaks - Page 37

On December 02 2010 03:39 Elegy wrote:


You honestly think the average citizen should be in charge of determining foreign policy?

The Founding Fathers are rolling in their graves.

On December 02 2010 03:55 Krikkitone wrote:



The average citizen should be in charge of foreign policy to the same degree they are in charge of
legislation.

On December 02 2010 04:22 Aim Here wrote:


Indeed. I think if the insulting racist gibberish in 79TEHRAN8980 is anything to go by, the average American citizen (or even that tired stereotype about the ignorant American) could hardly be worse. If this was the standard of the best and brightest of the diplomatic corps, who were coping with an important worldwide event like the Iranian revolution, I'm not surprised that at how badly things turned out for the Americans.

Choice quotes:

"PERHAPS THE SINGLE DOMINANT ASPECT OF THE PERSIAN
PSYCHE IS AN OVERRIDING EGOISM. ITS ANTECEDENTS LIE
IN THE LONG IRANIAN HISTORY OF INSTABILITY AND INSECURITY
WHICH PUT A PREMIUM ON SELF-PRESERVATION. THE PRACTICAL
EFFECT OF IT IS AN ALMOST TOTAL PERSIAN PREOCCUPATION
WITH SELF AND LEAVES LITTLE ROOM FOR UNDERSTANDING POINTS
OF VIEW OTHER THAN ONE'S OWN."

"COUPLED WITH THESE PSYCHOLOGICAL LIMITATIONS IS A
GENERAL INCOMPREHENSION OF CASUALITY. ISLAM, WITH ITS
EMPHASIS ON THE OMNIPOTENCE OF GOD, APPEARS TO ACCOUNT
AT LEAST IN MAJOR PART FOR THIS PHENOMENON."

"GIVEN THE PERSIAN NEGOTIATOR'S CULTURAL AND PSYCHOLOGICAL LIMITATIONS, HE IS GOING TO RESIST THE VERY CONCEPT OF A RATIONAL (FROM THE WESTERN POINT OF VIEW) NEGOTIATING PROCESS. "

On December 02 2010 04:22 Aim Here wrote:


Indeed. I think if the insulting racist gibberish in 79TEHRAN8980 is anything to go by, the average American citizen (or even that tired stereotype about the ignorant American) could hardly be worse. If this was the standard of the best and brightest of the diplomatic corps, who were coping with an important worldwide event like the Iranian revolution, I'm not surprised that at how badly things turned out for the Americans.

Choice quotes:

"PERHAPS THE SINGLE DOMINANT ASPECT OF THE PERSIAN
PSYCHE IS AN OVERRIDING EGOISM. ITS ANTECEDENTS LIE
IN THE LONG IRANIAN HISTORY OF INSTABILITY AND INSECURITY
WHICH PUT A PREMIUM ON SELF-PRESERVATION. THE PRACTICAL
EFFECT OF IT IS AN ALMOST TOTAL PERSIAN PREOCCUPATION
WITH SELF AND LEAVES LITTLE ROOM FOR UNDERSTANDING POINTS
OF VIEW OTHER THAN ONE'S OWN."

"COUPLED WITH THESE PSYCHOLOGICAL LIMITATIONS IS A
GENERAL INCOMPREHENSION OF CASUALITY. ISLAM, WITH ITS
EMPHASIS ON THE OMNIPOTENCE OF GOD, APPEARS TO ACCOUNT
AT LEAST IN MAJOR PART FOR THIS PHENOMENON."

"GIVEN THE PERSIAN NEGOTIATOR'S CULTURAL AND PSYCHOLOGICAL LIMITATIONS, HE IS GOING TO RESIST THE VERY CONCEPT OF A RATIONAL (FROM THE WESTERN POINT OF VIEW) NEGOTIATING PROCESS. "

On December 02 2010 04:56 Elegy wrote:
Only a fool would call that assessment racist garbage.

Despite the overwhelming importance of the
U.S. to Canada for its economy and security, bilateral
relations remain the proverbial 900 pound gorilla that no one
wants to talk about in the 2008 Canadian federal election
campaigns. This likely reflects an almost inherent
inferiority complex of Canadians vis-a-vis their sole
neighbor as well as an underlying assumption that the
fundamentals of the relationship are strong and unchanging
and uncertainty about the outcome of the U.S. Presidential
election.

On December 02 2010 03:42 domovoi wrote:
You cannot honestly say that this is whistleblowing, because what, exactly, is Wikileaks blowing the whistle on?

On December 02 2010 05:16 Elegy wrote:
@ aim here

Right, because everyone in the world had been raised in a quintessentially western-based tradition of rationalism and serious cultural biases and peculiarities have no relevancy. German culture and national thought should be ignored as well when we look at German unification. Spanish culture doesn't matter when we look at the Spanish Civil War, right?

On December 02 2010 05:47 Aim Here wrote:


Except that that cable doesn't contain the writings of someone with a culturally aware, indepth understanding of Persia - it's clearly an appeal to bigotry. If you need further convincing, note that this cable was written in 1979, before people (and certainly before right-wing white males in positions of power) had heard of political correctness or cultural sensitivity),

I'm faintly shocked that you're even suggesting that something like "Persians are a bunch of egotists and are too stupid to understand our point of view" is some sort of ethnically sensitive respect for diversity instead of the plain-to-see racism it is . Maybe 'Jews are a bunch of stingy money-grabbers' isn't antisemitic either, it's just an insightful commentary on their centuries-long respect for the processes by which wealth is acquired.

If we're running with your example, this guy would be the guy who wrote, in 1936, "Spanish people are too lazy to work, which is why they're all communists', or the guy who explained German reunification as being a consequence of the German people's need for world domination.

If we're running with your example, this guy would be the guy who wrote, in 1936, "Spanish people are too lazy to work, which is why they're all communists', or the guy who explained German reunification as being a consequence of the German people's need for world domination.

US and British diplomats fear that Pakistan's nuclear weapons programme could lead to terrorists obtaining fissile material, or a devastating nuclear exchange with India. Also, small teams of US special forces have been operating secretly inside Pakistan's tribal areas, with Pakistani government approval. And the US concluded that Pakistani troops were responsible for a spate of extra-judicial killings in the Swat valley and tribal belt, but decided not to comment publicly.

The French president, Nicolas Sarkozy, is portrayed as a self-absorbed, thin-skinned, erratic character who tyrannises his ministers and staff but is also a brilliant political tactician, in US memos. The Saudis were irritated by Sarkozy planning to take Carla Bruni on a state visit to their country before she was married. Sarkozy invited Gordon Brown and the Canadian prime minister, Stephen Harper, to last year's D-day commemorations because "the survival of their governments was at stake".

A subsidiary of the US private security firm Xe (then known as Blackwater) flouted German arms export law. It transported German helicopters to Afghanistan via Britain and Turkey without a permit because it was taking too long to get the German export papers.

On December 02 2010 06:30 Elegy wrote:

"PERHAPS THE SINGLE DOMINANT ASPECT OF THE ISRAELI
PSYCHE IS AN OVERRIDING DESIRE FOR SECURITY. ITS ANTECEDENTS LIE
IN THE LONG JEWISH HISTORY OF PERSECUTION AND INSECURITY
WHICH PUT A PREMIUM ON SELF-PRESERVATION. THE PRACTICAL
EFFECT OF IT IS AN ALMOST TOTAL JEWISH PREOCCUPATION
WITH SELF AND LEAVES LITTLE ROOM FOR UNDERSTANDING POINTS
OF VIEW OTHER THAN ONE'S OWN."


Would you say that's racist or anti-Semitic? I'm sure you could see it in that light if you chose to interpret it that way, but it's still an honest assessment that fairly well embodies 60-odd years of Israeli policy-making. It's a statement that truthfully outlines a central concept of the Israeli psyche as it pertains to negotiations with other states.

No, he could write, on one vein of thought, that the appeal of Spanish conservatives in the Civil War lies in their return to traditional conservative values, given that Spain as a nation had historically been one of the most staunchly Catholic countries in the world. The infusion of the Catholic Church into the state would prove to be one of the most lasting effects of state-sponsored religion in Spain, as well as a significant element in driving away support from the liberal democratic regime that came to power in Spain (and implemented secularization measures) and lasted only a few years.

On December 02 2010 06:46 Nitan wrote:


Oh Blackwater! You scamps!

On December 02 2010 06:30 Elegy wrote:



"PERHAPS THE SINGLE DOMINANT ASPECT OF THE ISRAELI
PSYCHE IS AN OVERRIDING DESIRE FOR SECURITY. ITS ANTECEDENTS LIE
IN THE LONG JEWISH HISTORY OF PERSECUTION AND INSECURITY
WHICH PUT A PREMIUM ON SELF-PRESERVATION. THE PRACTICAL
EFFECT OF IT IS AN ALMOST TOTAL JEWISH PREOCCUPATION
WITH SELF AND LEAVES LITTLE ROOM FOR UNDERSTANDING POINTS
OF VIEW OTHER THAN ONE'S OWN."

Would you say that's racist or anti-Semitic? I'm sure you could see it in that light if you chose to interpret it that way, but it's still an honest assessment that fairly well embodies 60-odd years of Israeli policy-making. It's a statement that truthfully outlines a central concept of the Israeli psyche as it pertains to negotiations with other states.

how about spying on UN members, denying confirmation of nukes being installed in various european countries, conducting military missions while the host government lies about them to their parliament all in the first few documents released

also, i'd wish people would drop the "diplomats cant conduct business properly now", can u not see that every single major government - apart from equador and a couple others i guess - is trying to hush this? so they can do business as usual like nothing ever happened? because governments do have stuff to hide, and its in everyone's best interests that the people are kept in the dark about many things (oh wait, thats for our own good, cuz they said so even if we cant see how and they wont tell us how or why and every time we find any sort of secret info it all points to special interests being served, be it oil or weapons companies or banks or whateverelse, certainly nothing of benefit to the average ppl)