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Wikileaks - Page 30

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Tufas
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Austria2259 Posts
November 29 2010 17:31 GMT
#581
Me and my friends actually name him a hero.
Also, I study political science and we try to get a class together with our favorite professor that solely speaks about wikileaks, methods and impact. Looking forward to it.

+ Show Spoiler +
HACK THE PLANET
Where is my ACE flair
Offhand
Profile Joined June 2010
United States1869 Posts
November 29 2010 17:34 GMT
#582
On November 30 2010 02:18 Krigwin wrote:
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1110/45667.html
http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2010/11/29/Lieberman-WikiLeaks-action-despicable/UPI-79631291032512/

WikiLeaks should be declared a "foreign terrorist organization", says incoming House Homeland Security Committee chairman Rep. Peter King, who wants the Obama administration to "aggressively" go after Assange and WikiLeaks. Likewise Senate Homeland Security Committee chairman, Sen. Joe Lieberman, declares the leak "despicable" and calls for the Obama administration, in collaboration with foreign governments, to "use all legal means necessary to shut down WikiLeaks".

Seems like everyone is having their feathers ruffled. Even Palin is getting in on the action.


Well, yeah. Wikileaks is going to fuck up a lot of the status quo if it continues to be a constant source of information like this. It's about as close to the smoke-filled back room as you can get.

I wonder how the US and other governments plan to shut it down. It's quite clear a character attack against the face of the organization didn't work.
Krigwin
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
1130 Posts
November 29 2010 17:59 GMT
#583
http://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/2010/11/29/china-trying-to-plug-wikileak/
+ Show Spoiler +
Can the world’s most elaborate censorship system put the clamps on the Internet’s most prolific source of confidential information?

A day after WikiLeaks began to release a quarter-million diplomatic cables sent from U.S. embassies, propaganda authorities in Beijing appear to be trying to control how much of the content of those cables leaks through to the Chinese public.

As of Monday evening in Beijing, the WikiLeaks “Cablegate” page was blocked by China’s Great Firewall—a rudimentary first-step on China’s censorship checklist.

More significantly, Chinese news media have received orders not to report on the Wikileaks dump, according to two people familiar with the situation at state broadcaster CCTV and online news portal Sohu.com. That fits with rumors of a WikiLeak news block that circulated among China-based Twitter users earlier on Monday.

The government almost never publicly explains the reasoning behind news bans, so it’s unclear if censors object to specific material contained in the cables or are leery of the WikiLeaks concept more generally.

According to WikiLeaks’ calculations, China appears in more than 8,300 of the cables—good enough for fifth place, behind Israel and just ahead of Afghanistan. The U.S. Embassy in Beijing accounts for 3,300 of the roughly 250,000 cables WikiLeaks claims to have in its possession. Six of the Beijing embassy cables have been released on the site so far.

Contained in the cables are assertions that could make things awkward between China and the U.S., including suggestions that China ignored a U.S. request to stop transfers of ballistic missile technology Tehran and offered Kyrgyzstan $3 billion to close a U.S. airbase there.

Another cable, not yet released on the website but seen by the Guardian, quotes an unnamed source saying China’s Politburo—the powerful governing group within the Communist Party-–directed hacking attacks against Google after one of its members searched his own name on the U.S. company’s site and didn’t like what he saw.

But in a country where “dissemination of state secrets” is a serious crime, the news block might just be a sign of unease with the concept of a website dedicated to exposing government communications.

In 2005, Chinese journalist Shi Tao was sentenced to ten years in prison for allegedly using his Yahoo account to provide “top level state secrets” to foreign news organizations.

Last year, the government arrested four employees of Australian mining company Rio Tinto on state secrets charges, although they were later tried and convicted on the lesser charge of stealing commercial secrets.

The block may also just be prophylactic—a way for censors to temporarily quash a story until they decide what parts of it they want revealed.

So far, a rush of initial Chinese reports on the leak—including a special section dedicated to them on the popular NetEase news portal—remain available through searches on Baidu and Google, although none of the coverage appears to deal with the China-related cables.

If the conversation on Sina Weibo, a Twitter-like microblogging service, is any indication, some of the China-related information has still managed to slip through.

“WikiLeaks is so powerful,” one user wrote. “I finally understand why the Chinese government needs to build so many ports and railways in those “xxstan” countries.”

“This times WikiLeaks not only embarrassed the U.S., but also China,” wrote another. “Whether the Iran issue or the Kyrgyzstan thing, it’s all a lesson that China should be a responsible power and not just sit around watching other countries make fools of themselves.”

China attempting to block access to WikiLeaks and minimize the damage. The first step, using China's Great Firewall to block the Cablegate page, has already been taken. Media outlets have been issued a gag order to not report anything pertaining to this leak. China, which, as some of the leaks has proven, has taken more aggressive steps to block dissemination of information in the past, such as attacking Google's systems, may take even more extreme actions here.

Meanwhile, in America...

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1110/45650.html
+ Show Spoiler +
The Pentagon on Sunday announced new approaches for how it would safeguard information in the wake of the leak of documents from WikiLeaks, amid allegations that the Obama administration went too far in improving information-sharing across the government.

The Defense Department’s new initiatives, which include both short- and long-term solutions, aim to prevent the potential for another theft of classified information. For example, officials said they were disabling all “write” capability to removable media such as thumb drives or disks, on DoD classified computers, “as a temporary technical solution to mitigate the future risks of personnel moving classified data to unclassified systems.”

The department will also limit the number of computer systems authorized to move data from a classified system to an unclassified one, according to an outline of the new rules the Pentagon released Sunday. And the department is developing procedures “to monitor and detect suspicious, unusual or anomalous user behavior” that is akin to the ways credit card companies watch card user behavior to spot fraud. The initiatives follow two reviews directed by Defense Secretary Robert Gates in August that stemmed from the first WikiLeaks leak over the summer.

“The bottom line,” said Bryan Whitman, a Pentagon spokesman of the new measures, is “it is now much more difficult for a determined actor to get access to and move information outside of authorized channels.”

The WikiLeaks debacle is forcing the Pentagon to refine measures that were put in place after 9/11 to encourage more information-sharing. The 9/11 Commission directed that the government work harder to share information across the bureaucracy – not “stovepipe” or compartmentalize it.

“The security concerns need to be weighed against the costs,” the 9/11 Commission report said. “There is no punishment s for not sharing information. Agencies uphold a ‘need-to-know’ culture of information protection rather than promoting a ‘need-to-share’ culture of integration.”

Whitman acknowledged that it was important to strike a proper balance.

“As we have now seen with the theft of huge amounts of classified data and the Wikileaks compromises, these efforts to give diplomatic, military, law enforcement and intelligence specialists quicker and easier access to greater amounts of data have had unintended consequences – making our sensitive data more vulnerable to compromise.”

But the administration is already being criticized for allowing the leak in the first place. A Republican lawmaker Sunday said the WikiLeaks release was a failure of the administration to safeguard information that was critical to diplomatic relations and national security. Rep. Peter Hoekstra (R-Mich.), who sits on the House Intelligence Committee, said that in the post 9/11 push to “connect the dots” and expand information-sharing between agencies – the administration went too far.

“What we did is we created an environment that enabled this stuff to be stolen by putting it all in one place,” Hoekstra told POLITICO. “You have to ask yourself a question, why would a private first class, sitting in Baghdad, have access to this kind of information?”

Government officials believe that PFC Bradley Manning is the main culprit behind the leaking of information to WikiLeaks. He was charged in June in connection with another leak.

Hoekstra said the disclosure of the documents is an embarrassment to the administration and represents a “critical failure by the Pentagon and intelligence community” to protect sensitive information. He called for hearings to determine what happened.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1110/45650.html#ixzz16hAtXyEA

The Pentagon issues more steps for containment of information to prevent further leaks such as this one, implementing both short-term and long-term actions designed to tighten control of inside information.
Tufas
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Austria2259 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-29 18:07:04
November 29 2010 18:06 GMT
#584
I wonder how much information they have about the rest of the world if it is that easy to get information that is labled "secret" from the U.S. Maybe they have language issues with the rest.
Where is my ACE flair
DaCruise
Profile Joined July 2010
Denmark2457 Posts
November 29 2010 18:21 GMT
#585
This is a huge bomb under diplomacy. The leaked documents doesnt add anything shocking to the generel population but it does severely undermine future diplomatic negotiations between US and the rest of the world as the US has now lost a lot of its credibility. Diplomatic discussions NEED to be kept secret or they wont ever happen.
Dont even get me started on how many agreements that wouldnt have happened if they had to be public.

What the hell do we care if some upperclass dude called Sarkozy for "Emperor with no close" or Berlusconi a "clovn? Its just trash talk and it happens all the time.
And countries spying on eachother,,,SURPRISE!! only the most ignorant and naive people didnt know this.

If you celebrate Assange as a hero you should also celebrate the paparazi´s that chased Princess Diana to her death.
The blindly pursue of scandals and drama, where there is none, benefits no one.

Assange is a traitor and a terrorist and I hope he will get treated as such.....you have death penalty over there right?..........
Treemonkeys
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States2082 Posts
November 29 2010 18:29 GMT
#586
If this was really a blow to the US government, NY times would not be covering it.
http://shroomspiration.blogspot.com/
Taguchi
Profile Joined February 2003
Greece1575 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-29 18:41:54
November 29 2010 18:29 GMT
#587
tufas, all this info most probably came from a low level military man simply exporting the entire database of articles onto a flash drive and giving it to wikileaks, outsiders didnt actually hack the military network

so its very doubtful they have secret info from other countries, though if others were inclined to "share" a database of secret communications, wikileaks is the platform for it~

edit:
On November 30 2010 03:21 DaCruise wrote:
This is a huge bomb under diplomacy. The leaked documents doesnt add anything shocking to the generel population but it does severely undermine future diplomatic negotiations between US and the rest of the world as the US has now lost a lot of its credibility. Diplomatic discussions NEED to be kept secret or they wont ever happen.
Dont even get me started on how many agreements that wouldnt have happened if they had to be public.

What the hell do we care if some upperclass dude called Sarkozy for "Emperor with no close" or Berlusconi a "clovn? Its just trash talk and it happens all the time.
And countries spying on eachother,,,SURPRISE!! only the most ignorant and naive people didnt know this.

If you celebrate Assange as a hero you should also celebrate the paparazi´s that chased Princess Diana to her death.
The blindly pursue of scandals and drama, where there is none, benefits no one.

Assange is a traitor and a terrorist and I hope he will get treated as such.....you have death penalty over there right?..........


no see, you cant argue that "there is nothing of importance added from these documents, everyone knows this all already" and in the same breath say that "its a huge bomb under diplomacy"

if nothing of import was added from this and it is general diplomatic practice to actively seek out personal info / codes from UN members etc, well nothing to see here, just say "sorry" in your next meeting and everything will be business as usual

as for the comparison to dayanna, well... if u see a connection between heckling paparazzi and revelations as to the workings of usa foreign policy, live a happy life and dont bother replying
Great minds might think alike, but fastest hands rule the day~
Aim Here
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Scotland672 Posts
November 29 2010 18:39 GMT
#588
On November 30 2010 03:21 DaCruise wrote:
What the hell do we care if some upperclass dude called Sarkozy for "Emperor with no close" or Berlusconi a "clovn? Its just trash talk and it happens all the time.
And countries spying on eachother,,,SURPRISE!! only the most ignorant and naive people didnt know this.


Did you know that the United States was bombing people in Yemen, or that they are storing nuclear weapons in the Netherlands, without the knowledge of the Dutch people? Those are both heavy, and serious, news stories in their own right, and those have emerged just in the first 0.1% of publicly released documents. If this is a representative sample, that's 2000 major news stories.


Assange is a traitor and a terrorist and I hope he will get treated as such.....you have death penalty over there right?..........


Assange is not American so why you think he's a traitor, I don't know. And if all he was passing on was trivial gossip, as you say above, why do you think what he does warrants the death penalty?
Aim Here
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Scotland672 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-29 18:40:57
November 29 2010 18:40 GMT
#589
Edit: Accidental doublepost.
DaCruise
Profile Joined July 2010
Denmark2457 Posts
November 29 2010 18:48 GMT
#590
On November 30 2010 03:29 Taguchi wrote:
tufas, all this info most probably came from a low level military man simply exporting the entire database of articles onto a flash drive and giving it to wikileaks, outsiders didnt actually hack the military network

so its very doubtful they have secret info from other countries, though if others were inclined to "share" a database of secret communications, wikileaks is the platform for it~

edit:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2010 03:21 DaCruise wrote:
This is a huge bomb under diplomacy. The leaked documents doesnt add anything shocking to the generel population but it does severely undermine future diplomatic negotiations between US and the rest of the world as the US has now lost a lot of its credibility. Diplomatic discussions NEED to be kept secret or they wont ever happen.
Dont even get me started on how many agreements that wouldnt have happened if they had to be public.

What the hell do we care if some upperclass dude called Sarkozy for "Emperor with no close" or Berlusconi a "clovn? Its just trash talk and it happens all the time.
And countries spying on eachother,,,SURPRISE!! only the most ignorant and naive people didnt know this.

If you celebrate Assange as a hero you should also celebrate the paparazi´s that chased Princess Diana to her death.
The blindly pursue of scandals and drama, where there is none, benefits no one.

Assange is a traitor and a terrorist and I hope he will get treated as such.....you have death penalty over there right?..........


no see, you cant argue that "there is nothing of importance added from these documents, everyone knows this all already" and in the same breath say that "its a huge bomb under diplomacy"

if nothing of import was added from this and it is general diplomatic practice to actively seek out personal info / codes from UN members etc, well nothing to see here, just say "sorry" in your next meeting and everything will be business as usual

as for the comparison to dayanna, well... if u see a connection between heckling paparazzi and revelations as to the workings of usa foreign policy, live a happy life and dont bother replying


You think its important for the public to know what leaders and diplomats think of eachother? Is it not more important that a nuclear weapons reduction agreement can be settled?
monx
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Canada1400 Posts
November 29 2010 18:51 GMT
#591
Well the population will forget in 2-3 weeks so who cares.
@ggmonx
Mickey
Profile Blog Joined July 2005
United States2606 Posts
November 29 2010 19:02 GMT
#592
On November 30 2010 03:51 monx wrote:
Well the population will forget in 2-3 weeks so who cares.

May every day people who have no say in these matters, but globally/politically there will be long term effects.
Taguchi
Profile Joined February 2003
Greece1575 Posts
November 29 2010 19:14 GMT
#593
so dacruise, a nuclear weapons reduction agreement wont be reached because the diplomats have their panties in a bunch over some - well deserved in most cases - namecalling, glad we got that settled

also, you might want to read up on some of these messages, it is not simple namecalling, it is usa and french diplomats discussing trade agreements on behalf of weapons companies (here in greece there's long been conjecture that we were forced to buy a couple uboats together with that eu loan, wouldnt that be fun if it ever surfaced huh), it is directives for espionage against the UN, it is confirmation that usa nuclear weapons are being stored in belgium, netherlands, germany and turkey (they had covered this up since near the start of the cold war, u'd think in a "democracy" people would be informed of such developments so they can cast their votes responsibly no?), it is yemen vice president laughing about lying to his parliament about covering for us missions run in his country and who knows what more

and above all, it is proof

/end derail
Great minds might think alike, but fastest hands rule the day~
lightrise
Profile Joined March 2008
United States1355 Posts
November 29 2010 19:17 GMT
#594
Ok so here is the deal this is perfect timing for this to come out. It has nothing to do with whether he is actually a monster which is the best thing about the paper. We are supposed to discuss how describing him as a monster and a man without morals affect his social standing. Also I can talk about the two sides rhetoric, those who think he is a monster and those who think he is a savior to free speech, and how their words and rhetoric affect how he is perceived by those reading the articles. I believe all the stuff coming out about him being reckless and possibly undermining all of the us security, that he should even be assassinated highlights lots of our ideals as americans vs those ideals of people in other countries.
Awesome german interviewer: "What was your idea going into games against Idra" "I WANTED TO USE A CHEESE STRATEGY BECAUSE IDRA IS KNOWN TO TILT AFTER LOSING TO SOMETHING GAY" Demuslim
wadadde
Profile Joined February 2009
270 Posts
November 29 2010 21:17 GMT
#595
On November 30 2010 03:29 Treemonkeys wrote:
If this was really a blow to the US government, NY times would not be covering it.

Wrong. It's the function of the US/Western propaganda entities to frame the news so as to reinforce the necessary illusions. What you're referring to is Sovjet-style propaganda, which is a different thing entirely. We should all take pride in the fact that our societies are free enough to be mostly impervious to wholesale media blackouts and things of that nature. Ambitious journalists are free to write whatever their ambitious (hence cautious/servile) editors want them to write.

We're 'free', and the US, like the European states, is a 'democracy'. Well, maybe, we're not free, but we're certainly inexpensive.
Nitan
Profile Joined September 2008
United States3401 Posts
November 29 2010 21:29 GMT
#596
On November 30 2010 03:29 Taguchi wrote:
tufas, all this info most probably came from a low level military man simply exporting the entire database of articles onto a flash drive and giving it to wikileaks, outsiders didnt actually hack the military network

so its very doubtful they have secret info from other countries, though if others were inclined to "share" a database of secret communications, wikileaks is the platform for it~

edit:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2010 03:21 DaCruise wrote:
This is a huge bomb under diplomacy. The leaked documents doesnt add anything shocking to the generel population but it does severely undermine future diplomatic negotiations between US and the rest of the world as the US has now lost a lot of its credibility. Diplomatic discussions NEED to be kept secret or they wont ever happen.
Dont even get me started on how many agreements that wouldnt have happened if they had to be public.

What the hell do we care if some upperclass dude called Sarkozy for "Emperor with no close" or Berlusconi a "clovn? Its just trash talk and it happens all the time.
And countries spying on eachother,,,SURPRISE!! only the most ignorant and naive people didnt know this.

If you celebrate Assange as a hero you should also celebrate the paparazi´s that chased Princess Diana to her death.
The blindly pursue of scandals and drama, where there is none, benefits no one.

Assange is a traitor and a terrorist and I hope he will get treated as such.....you have death penalty over there right?..........


no see, you cant argue that "there is nothing of importance added from these documents, everyone knows this all already" and in the same breath say that "its a huge bomb under diplomacy"

if nothing of import was added from this and it is general diplomatic practice to actively seek out personal info / codes from UN members etc, well nothing to see here, just say "sorry" in your next meeting and everything will be business as usual

as for the comparison to dayanna, well... if u see a connection between heckling paparazzi and revelations as to the workings of usa foreign policy, live a happy life and dont bother replying


It's one thing for diplomats to suspect each other of saying unflattering things in private and another for these thoughts to be announced publicly.

How will negotiations over nuclear arms reduction go with Russia now that it's public information that our officials have accused them of being in bed with organized crime? How will negotiations go with China now that we've accused them of attacking not only Google but American companies?
Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself. I am large, I contain multitudes.
Aim Here
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Scotland672 Posts
November 29 2010 21:53 GMT
#597
On November 30 2010 06:29 Nitan wrote:

How will negotiations over nuclear arms reduction go with Russia now that it's public information that our officials have accused them of being in bed with organized crime? How will negotiations go with China now that we've accused them of attacking not only Google but American companies?


I'm sure such negotiations will carry on as they did before. The nonAmerican governments of the world probably have written similar things about the US regime in their files, and their officials and politicians are grown-ups. They'll empathise with the diplomats - the same thing could happen to them, after all. Notice the hilarious way that all the governments of the world, including official enemies, such as Iran, have closed ranks over this leak - none of them are happy about the precedent that's been set, where the general public are suddenly entitled to information. (The hypocrisy is absolutely stunning, by the way. If any one of these governments, the US included, were to have a defector turn up with all these cables, they'd debrief the guy, give him a new life and a nice pension, and keep the information secret, to themselves. It's only the general public that's not allowed to know this sort of stuff.)

And trying to frame the issue as 'making it difficult to negotiate nuclear arms reductions' is a bit silly, given that the people of Germany, Belgium, the Netherlands, and Turkey have hitherto not had any kind of democratic opportunity to pressure their, or the US, government about the genocidal weapons secretly stored in their countries (we still don't even know if the governments involved know about the weapons), and it was this leak that has now enabled it.
wadadde
Profile Joined February 2009
270 Posts
November 29 2010 22:05 GMT
#598
On November 30 2010 06:29 Nitan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2010 03:29 Taguchi wrote:
tufas, all this info most probably came from a low level military man simply exporting the entire database of articles onto a flash drive and giving it to wikileaks, outsiders didnt actually hack the military network

so its very doubtful they have secret info from other countries, though if others were inclined to "share" a database of secret communications, wikileaks is the platform for it~

edit:
On November 30 2010 03:21 DaCruise wrote:
This is a huge bomb under diplomacy. The leaked documents doesnt add anything shocking to the generel population but it does severely undermine future diplomatic negotiations between US and the rest of the world as the US has now lost a lot of its credibility. Diplomatic discussions NEED to be kept secret or they wont ever happen.
Dont even get me started on how many agreements that wouldnt have happened if they had to be public.

What the hell do we care if some upperclass dude called Sarkozy for "Emperor with no close" or Berlusconi a "clovn? Its just trash talk and it happens all the time.
And countries spying on eachother,,,SURPRISE!! only the most ignorant and naive people didnt know this.

If you celebrate Assange as a hero you should also celebrate the paparazi´s that chased Princess Diana to her death.
The blindly pursue of scandals and drama, where there is none, benefits no one.

Assange is a traitor and a terrorist and I hope he will get treated as such.....you have death penalty over there right?..........


no see, you cant argue that "there is nothing of importance added from these documents, everyone knows this all already" and in the same breath say that "its a huge bomb under diplomacy"

if nothing of import was added from this and it is general diplomatic practice to actively seek out personal info / codes from UN members etc, well nothing to see here, just say "sorry" in your next meeting and everything will be business as usual

as for the comparison to dayanna, well... if u see a connection between heckling paparazzi and revelations as to the workings of usa foreign policy, live a happy life and dont bother replying


It's one thing for diplomats to suspect each other of saying unflattering things in private and another for these thoughts to be announced publicly.

How will negotiations over nuclear arms reduction go with Russia now that it's public information that our officials have accused them of being in bed with organized crime? How will negotiations go with China now that we've accused them of attacking not only Google but American companies?

I wasn't aware that your government (you?) had accused anyone. It's merely been revealed that the USG suspects/believes these things. Don't you think that the spying on diplomats ordered by Clinton is far more damaging to US diplomacy in the short term?
Also, don't be such a negative nancy. There's an upside to the Russian people being (further) exposed to the possible corruption of their governmental institutions. And reports of Chinese naughtiness are standard fare. Please try to look beyond the narrow interests of your government.
Triky
Profile Joined September 2010
Peru99 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-29 22:09:10
November 29 2010 22:08 GMT
#599
Edit: Wrong post
my life for pylo!
Yttrasil
Profile Joined April 2010
Sweden651 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-29 22:42:36
November 29 2010 22:34 GMT
#600
http://cablegate.wikileaks.org/cable/2008/04/08ASTANA760.html very funny

In 2007, President Nazarbayev’s son-in-law, Timur Kulibayev, celebrated his 41st birthday in grand style. At a small venue in Almaty, he hosted a private concert with some of Russia’s biggest pop-stars. The headliner, however, was Elton John, to whom he reportedly paid one million pounds for this one-time appearance.

Kazakhstan’s political elites also have recreational tastes that are not so exotic. Some, in fact, prefer to relax the old-fashioned way. Defense Minister Akhmetov, a self-proclaimed workaholic, appears to enjoy loosening up in the tried and true “homo sovieticus” style -- i.e., drinking oneself into a stupor.

Saudabayev has twice hosted visiting USG officials for a meal at Mashkevich’s [världens 334e rikaste person] Astana residence -- both times without Mashkevich. It is not clear what Mashkevich is spending his billions on, but it is certainly not culinary talent. On all four occasions the Ambassador has eaten at one of his houses, the menu has been similar and focused on beshparmak (boiled meat and noodles) and plov. The wait staff appeared to be graduates of a Soviet cafeteria training academy. The wine, at least, was somewhat upscale
Meh
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