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GreEny K
Germany7312 Posts
On June 27 2010 13:12 Luddite wrote: I gotta admit, that would be pretty cool. hey, why not have it on a submarine as well? Or a space station? Lol that would be cool. In a plane would be the coolest. | ||
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Motiva
United States1774 Posts
On June 27 2010 13:55 Murmaider wrote: I went to protest the G8 in Heiligendamm Germany. Police dressed up as "Anarchists" were actually trying to get voilent action going, encouraging others to throw stones. When they were identified they ran like shit towards their fellow officers. another example: to be clear, i dont think this protesting is going to do anything. the people who are meeting made it pretty clear they do not care at all. There are alternative reasons for protesting other than influences those that you are protesting. It's essentially just a game for information. As long as the mainstream news doesn't complete ignore the protests and continues to simply alienate or scapegoat them. Some people may just buy into the story presented, others might try to put themselves in the shoes of the protesters and educate themselves and agree or disagree. I'm sure theres a number of people in the world that had no idea that the G8/20 existed. Any publicity is good publicity i suppose? | ||
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CursOr
United States6335 Posts
Just made me realize how hopeless it is. I'm glad I did it. But, people aren't listening. Either- the people who are in power OR the other people who should be protesting. I forget how in the dark people can be when they say things like "what are these people protesting", these are "peaceful meetings." Just, basically to sum up, as simply as I can, why I myself protested: The G8 enslave the rest of the world. Also, 98% of the populations of the G8 live very poorly compared to how they should be. These people meeting are the rich people who suck off the top of everyone. They are why there is this huge "recession", why there are sweat shops and outsourced jobs, the IMF and the world bank buy all the natural resources in 3rd world countries and make TONS of money off them. Not to mention military actions usually provided by the US or the UN. Our societies are perpetuated by Slavery. In the old chattel sense of the word. You don't see it, but its why we "have" just enough not to complain, and the top 1% live ridiculous lives of opulence. | ||
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Motiva
United States1774 Posts
On June 27 2010 14:22 -fj. wrote: The purpose of the undercovers is to provoke violence, give the other police an excuse to start spraying and hitting. That's usually what they do anyway, aside from ratting on / telling lies about the people they were with. The motivation for the protests is not something that is easily explained in one forum post, especially to a normal person on a gaming forum. Although these are really inflammatory and have some bullshit in them, they capture the spirit and main ideas behind this protest in an entertaining fashion. I highly recommend watching it. starts at 4 minutes 20 seconds As entertaining as that presentation of the information is, it's more bias than it needs to be. Documentary on what our money really is, and how banks exploit it. The follow up documentary sequel carries it closer to a more "real" depiction. Documentary on what the corporation is and how they exploit governments and that if they didn't oppress people they would be neglecting their duty. Really, that's barely scratching the surface on why people would protest G20. lol. Shit is serious ^^ Zeitgiest is nice because of how it assimilates information from so many fields, but it fails to tell the full story imo. | ||
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alexpnd
Canada1857 Posts
Activists have accused Canadian officials of using heavy-handed tactics in preparation for protests at the G8 and G20 summits. On Friday, it emerged that the government of the province of Ontario had secretly changed a law to allow police to arrest anyone near the G20 meeting who doesn't identify themselves. The change to the law wasn't made public until 31-year-old Dave Vasey was arrested under the new powers. Vasey was kept for hours in a caged area police set up to hold arrested protesters. he told the Toronto Star Saturday that he plans to challenge the law as early as Monday. Vasey's lawyer, Howard Morton, said the law violates Canada's constitution, which "guarantees people freedom of assembly [and] the freedom of communication." http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0626/g20-protesters-clash-police/ I hope this isn't true. :S | ||
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ChoboOv
Canada126 Posts
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Hikari
1914 Posts
I was passing outside a hotel where the VIPs are supposed to stay a week ago and all the fences and police blockades implied serious business. 1billion is a bit too much for security costs imo. Maybe because Toronto has been such a peaceful town that the police department are not experienced enough handling such a major event. Many years back I read how the Korean farmers went to Hong Kong to protest - when they are done they would clean the streets for the city. Such good manners! Why can't the G20 protest be more like this? Is it possible for the protest organizers to "organize" themselves and use their own manpower to prevent such a riot from happening? | ||
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mmp
United States2130 Posts
On June 27 2010 14:36 ChoboOv wrote: The people causing destruction and violence have no idea what they are doing. They are protesting absolutely nothing. Instead of putting all this energy into something actually constructive they are wasting it on these ridiculous protests that absolutely no one of importance cares about. Just imagine all the energy these rejects of society put into these protest funneled towards something constructive, something positive towards society instead of smashing windows and burning cop cars, that will show the world leaders you mean business, chaos and destruction. Obviously the world isn't prefect and sure somethings need to be changed but vandalizing and causing havoc does absolutely nothing to make these changes. It honestly hurts me to hear you condemn the democratic process... Maybe you don't understand the issues at heart, but show a little respect for people that are looking out for your freedom. (Hint: it's not your government) | ||
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Kwidowmaker
Canada978 Posts
On June 27 2010 14:35 Motiva wrote: Really, that's barely scratching the surface on why people would protest G20. lol. Shit is serious ^^ Zeitgiest is nice because of how it assimilates information from so many fields, but it fails to tell the full story imo. I was digging Zeitgiest and its sequel until the 9/11 conspiracy stuff. Because of that one section I tend to take documentaries of Zeitgiest's kind with a grain of salt. The networks between corporations and nations are so complex, and information so sparse and overloading that I must force myself to doubt the facts and conclusions of these docs. All I know for sure is that: 1) there are people who live in shit and poverty without the means to pull themselves up by their bootstraps. 2) there are people with the means to fix this that instead exacerbate the suffering. That in itself is enough of a reason to protest and want to tear down the government, but I'm pessimistic of any "achievements" gained this way. Governments ignore, pundits smear, and CEOs laugh. Without these people on board nothing will change. As an aside, that's why I think Bill Gates and Warren Buffet are total ballers for their charity efforts -e- On June 27 2010 14:39 Hikari wrote: I am rather saddened by the troublemakers. Toronto has been overall a rather peaceful town when it comes to protests. The ones who burned police cars and windows are clearly not there to protest - but to cause trouble... how does breaking the window of starbucks help you get your point across? Why does the police officers allow their cars to be burned down? I agree with you that breaking Starbucks windows in no way directly improves anything. What it does is make noise and that's what a protest is about. (and all those Via ready blends are now free for the taking!) | ||
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XDawn
Canada4040 Posts
Apparently - these 100 people or whatever who were causing chaos weren't even from Toronto | ||
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Motiva
United States1774 Posts
On June 27 2010 14:36 ChoboOv wrote: Obviously the world isn't prefect and sure somethings need to be changed but vandalizing and causing havoc does absolutely nothing to make these changes. Actually, there is a strong argument against that. Really it should be so common sense that I'm suprised anyone has to say it. The fact of the matter is that this thread and prolly thousands others would not exist if things never escalated. If for every 5,000 that read about these posts only 5 are educated it's not a horrible trade. From what I've seen it wasn't like they were raining down hellish destruction and fire. From what I saw the police were getting pretty emotional. Emotion begets emotion maybe? | ||
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alexpnd
Canada1857 Posts
On June 27 2010 14:39 Hikari wrote: I am rather saddened by the troublemakers. Toronto has been overall a rather peaceful town when it comes to protests. The ones who burned police cars and windows are clearly not there to protest - but to cause trouble... how does breaking the window of starbucks help you get your point across? Why does the police officers allow their cars to be burned down? I was passing outside a hotel where the VIPs are supposed to stay a week ago and all the fences and police blockades implied serious business. 1billion is a bit too much for security costs imo. Maybe because Toronto has been such a peaceful town that the police department are not experienced enough handling such a major event. Many years back I read how the Korean farmers went to Hong Kong to protest - when they are done they would clean the streets for the city. Such good manners! Why can't the G20 protest be more like this? Is it possible for the protest organizers to "organize" themselves and use their own manpower to prevent such a riot from happening? Good post. There are several clashes of interest amongst the protesters and protest leaders so there is no "controlling" violent behavior. The protesters who belong togethor stay togethor, I'm sure a lot of the trouble makers have no place and give no support to any of the causes other than disturbance . Most of the damage is towards the protesters themselves via bad PR. A few broken windows and some burned cars is meaningless really, the cop cars are paid for out of our pocket. The small companies are the ones I worry about because our government gives them the hardest time anyway. I think in general the peaceful protest is an opportunity to feel the gesture of a population swaying in opposition to the sorts of management and manipulation of financial policy that is happening mostly veiled above our heads. | ||
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Infundibulum
United States2552 Posts
On June 27 2010 14:32 cursor wrote: I used to be quite "activist" myself. I went to a lot of protests and listened to NPR all the time, read a lot of Chomsky and Jensen. Just made me realize how hopeless it is. I'm glad I did it. But, people aren't listening. Either- the people who are in power OR the other people who should be protesting. I forget how in the dark people can be when they say things like "what are these people protesting", these are "peaceful meetings." Just, basically to sum up, as simply as I can, why I myself protested: The G8 enslave the rest of the world. Also, 98% of the populations of the G8 live very poorly compared to how they should be. These people meeting are the rich people who suck off the top of everyone. They are why there is this huge "recession", why there are sweat shops and outsourced jobs, the IMF and the world bank buy all the natural resources in 3rd world countries and make TONS of money off them. Not to mention military actions usually provided by the US or the UN. Our societies are perpetuated by Slavery. In the old chattel sense of the word. You don't see it, but its why we "have" just enough not to complain, and the top 1% live ridiculous lives of opulence. Good post. One of the problems is that many protesters don't make it specifically clearly why they are there. While someone like you or me who has read and knows is familiar, most people just look and think "what a bunch of thugs." It might be that the message is too complicated to distill into chant-able sound bytes; i don't really know. | ||
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semantics
10040 Posts
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Motiva
United States1774 Posts
On June 27 2010 15:11 semantics wrote: If you had the valid truth you wouldn't need to firebomb shit. Back this statement up. | ||
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semantics
10040 Posts
haha hilarious. Simply put a show of force is the opposite of intellectual discussion and persuasion. It is only necessary to use force when against someone beyond reason. So either the people do not believe in governments and they are all anarchist or they just rather spend their time demanding things without valid proof and firebomb those who do not agree. | ||
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GuerrillaRepublik
United States34 Posts
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GuerrillaRepublik
United States34 Posts
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alexpnd
Canada1857 Posts
On June 27 2010 15:23 semantics wrote: haha hilarious. Simply put a show of force is the opposite of intellectual discussion and persuasion. It is only necessary to use force when against someone beyond reason. So either the people do not believe in governments and they are all anarchist or they just rather spend their time demanding things without valid proof and firebomb those who do not agree. The entire problem with your argument is that you buy into the 'problem' caused by the violence, and the one that is easiest to grab a hold of especially with the media focus on it. That the protesters are of one group, are all imbeciles and reckless. Each man is responsible for his own action, so the violent protesters must be looked at individually or according to their group. If they don't want to be identified (probably more likely with a group than as an individual due to the obvious legal issue) then they are probably just out to harm the protesters more than anything else. There is very good use for protests, and it's important to have them, regardless if there are problems like this vandalism. | ||
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GuerrillaRepublik
United States34 Posts
Network - 1976 You gotta get mad!!! great part =o | ||
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