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United States43468 Posts
On June 01 2010 19:45 ComusLoM wrote:
I'm amazed anyone at all is defending Israel in the slightest. It continues to flaunt international law, human rights and common decency. Any terrorist act against Israel has always been morally justified if you consider the true evil of the Israeli state. In a perfect world Europe and the world would have intervened a long time ago to destroy the Israeli menace. A state which had no right to be created on Palestinian land in the first place.
Israel upholds far greater standards of justice, accountability and respect for human life than its neighbours. It's easy for us to criticise its failures while our situation is very different but compared to its peers in the Middle East Israel is a beacon of hope.
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On June 01 2010 20:20 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2010 19:45 ComusLoM wrote:
I'm amazed anyone at all is defending Israel in the slightest. It continues to flaunt international law, human rights and common decency. Any terrorist act against Israel has always been morally justified if you consider the true evil of the Israeli state. In a perfect world Europe and the world would have intervened a long time ago to destroy the Israeli menace. A state which had no right to be created on Palestinian land in the first place. Israel upholds far greater standards of justice, accountability and respect for human life than its neighbours. It's easy for us to criticise its failures while our situation is very different but compared to its peers in the Middle East Israel is a beacon of hope.
What about Jordan?
EDIT: They seem to be pretty moderate stable and don't tend to interfere forcefully in the affairs of other countries for 40 years
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On June 01 2010 20:20 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2010 19:45 ComusLoM wrote:
I'm amazed anyone at all is defending Israel in the slightest. It continues to flaunt international law, human rights and common decency. Any terrorist act against Israel has always been morally justified if you consider the true evil of the Israeli state. In a perfect world Europe and the world would have intervened a long time ago to destroy the Israeli menace. A state which had no right to be created on Palestinian land in the first place. Israel upholds far greater standards of justice, accountability and respect for human life than its neighbours. It's easy for us to criticise its failures while our situation is very different but compared to its peers in the Middle East Israel is a beacon of hope.
?? They evidently don't, as can be seen by the brutal way they treat Palestinians. It's true that since their ancestors are often Western or Eastern European they inhereted higher standards for justice and such, but it seems to be mostly reserved for their "tribe".
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On June 01 2010 20:20 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2010 19:45 ComusLoM wrote:
I'm amazed anyone at all is defending Israel in the slightest. It continues to flaunt international law, human rights and common decency. Any terrorist act against Israel has always been morally justified if you consider the true evil of the Israeli state. In a perfect world Europe and the world would have intervened a long time ago to destroy the Israeli menace. A state which had no right to be created on Palestinian land in the first place. Israel upholds far greater standards of justice, accountability and respect for human life than its neighbours. It's easy for us to criticise its failures while our situation is very different but compared to its peers in the Middle East Israel is a beacon of hope.
Unfortunately Kwark, those standards only apply to their people. It's double standard, a very good one for israeli and a very bad one for palestinians.
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Hmm, according to wikipedia, the Jewish people are very close genetically to the Palestinians. Most suspect that the Palestinians are descendants of Ancient Israelites left behind after the exodus.
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Who started violence first - soldiers or civilians?! Video evidence is presented by one side so far and looks like it has no ending or even begining of this raid. It's really easy to provoke a huge group of civilians with one flashbang btw.
Following ONE leader is a human nature (race, religion or country doesn't matter) - we are social animals btw and all it takes is one person to start resisting for a huge group to join him.
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i am absolute pro israel here
u must defend vs terrorism
u must search for weapons if they wanna go thorugh blockade
if they say no u attack and if they attack you you must defend
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On June 01 2010 20:44 ColorsOfRainbow wrote:
i am absolute pro israel here
u must defend vs terrorism
u must search for weapons if they wanna go thorugh blockade
if they say no u attack and if they attack you you must defend
you shame your great country
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On June 01 2010 20:44 ColorsOfRainbow wrote:
i am absolute pro israel here
u must defend vs terrorism
u must search for weapons if they wanna go thorugh blockade
if they say no u attack and if they attack you you must defend
Such a sample of ignorance is rare to find.
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On June 01 2010 20:52 Pika Chu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2010 20:44 ColorsOfRainbow wrote:
i am absolute pro israel here
u must defend vs terrorism
u must search for weapons if they wanna go thorugh blockade
if they say no u attack and if they attack you you must defend
Such a sample of ignorance is rare to find.
How much reading have you done on the Israel-Palestine conflict?
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Just enough so i can have a clear idea of what is going on.
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On June 01 2010 21:06 Pika Chu wrote:
Just enough so i can have a clear idea of what is going on.
Care to name any books, writers?
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I didn't read any books on this matter. Maybe fragments of some, each and there.
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On June 01 2010 19:38 hifriend wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2010 19:16 Liquid`Drone wrote:
there is NO way of defending this. this convoi largely consists of 3 groups of people - academics/writers, politicians, and doctors. they sure as hell are not gun-smugglers or terrorists.
That's interesting you don't usually see academics or politicians unprovokedly bashing military staff with iron pipes.
Unprovoked? Their ship was being attacked on international water. They had every right to defend themselves.
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On June 01 2010 20:00 ComusLoM wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2010 19:56 Not_A_Notion wrote:On June 01 2010 19:45 ComusLoM wrote:
I'm amazed anyone at all is defending Israel in the slightest. It continues to flaunt international law, human rights and common decency. Any terrorist act against Israel has always been morally justified if you consider the true evil of the Israeli state. In a perfect world Europe and the world would have intervened a long time ago to destroy the Israeli menace. A state which had no right to be created on Palestinian land in the first place. Sh*t like that doesn't help, targetting of civilians is never acceptable whether Israeli or Palestinian. If they want to fight a war with Israel they should attack soldiers and military targets, not randomly spray rockets into Israel as Hamas are doing. Even if the Israeli government is acting the tw*t (which it is, after all its still settling occupied land in the West Bank and East Jerusalem), you can't say Hamas are right, in fact prior to this incident Hamas were supposedly losing support in Gaza because they are so repressive, this whole incident will probably make them popular again unfortunately, in the longer run that may be the greater tragedy Being at all in Israel can be seen as a support to the illegal state. I'm not saying terrorism in itself can be truly justified. However by Palestinians against Israel on what is undeniably rightfully Palestinian land can be likened to any freedom fighting that has ever taken place. It's comparable to resistance against Germany in WW2 only this time people have the wool pulled over their eyes.
Is it really Palestinian land? If you've read your history, it's Britain who basically started this whole ruckus by 1. Encouraging Zionism to carve an enclave for Jews in Palestine, even before WWI kicked the Ottomans out of the area. 2. Screwing up the Mandate given by the League of Nations then the UN and refusing any responsibility towards enforcing the division of the country, leading to the 1948 War of Independence and all that happened after.
As for moderate countries in the Middle East, until after the 1973 War, Jordan was also one of the more autocratic countries in the area, they just realized they couldn't keep up being belligerent forever because Israel was the fastest way to the sea, not to mention that they shared a water source rare in the desert.
Also, and probably most important for those concerned about Palestinians in of themselves, have you ever taken a look at the treatment of exiled Palestinians outside of Israeli held territory, or even Palestine itself? There's just as many Palestinians still living in poverty and requiring support in foreign countries, as there are in Israel itself IIRC. What's worse is that the countries that host these people do not recognize them as refugees and fail to provide them with support and aid.
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On June 01 2010 20:25 Mothxal wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2010 20:20 KwarK wrote:On June 01 2010 19:45 ComusLoM wrote:
I'm amazed anyone at all is defending Israel in the slightest. It continues to flaunt international law, human rights and common decency. Any terrorist act against Israel has always been morally justified if you consider the true evil of the Israeli state. In a perfect world Europe and the world would have intervened a long time ago to destroy the Israeli menace. A state which had no right to be created on Palestinian land in the first place. Israel upholds far greater standards of justice, accountability and respect for human life than its neighbours. It's easy for us to criticise its failures while our situation is very different but compared to its peers in the Middle East Israel is a beacon of hope. ?? They evidently don't, as can be seen by the brutal way they treat Palestinians. It's true that since their ancestors are often Western or Eastern European they inhereted higher standards for justice and such, but it seems to be mostly reserved for their "tribe".
tribe....
wow i'm pretty much speechless
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On June 01 2010 21:10 Pika Chu wrote:
I didn't read any books on this matter. Maybe fragments of some, each and there.
And yet you think you have a clear idea about one of the most complex conflicts in history? And that one side is the absolute villain here?
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On June 01 2010 21:15 pvzvt wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2010 20:25 Mothxal wrote:On June 01 2010 20:20 KwarK wrote:On June 01 2010 19:45 ComusLoM wrote:
I'm amazed anyone at all is defending Israel in the slightest. It continues to flaunt international law, human rights and common decency. Any terrorist act against Israel has always been morally justified if you consider the true evil of the Israeli state. In a perfect world Europe and the world would have intervened a long time ago to destroy the Israeli menace. A state which had no right to be created on Palestinian land in the first place. Israel upholds far greater standards of justice, accountability and respect for human life than its neighbours. It's easy for us to criticise its failures while our situation is very different but compared to its peers in the Middle East Israel is a beacon of hope. ?? They evidently don't, as can be seen by the brutal way they treat Palestinians. It's true that since their ancestors are often Western or Eastern European they inhereted higher standards for justice and such, but it seems to be mostly reserved for their "tribe". tribe.... wow i'm pretty much speechless
Ehm, I'm sorry if that came out badly. I'm referring to tribe as a cultural entity or so. And that's true, Israel does have different standards for Jewish people than Palestinian people.
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On June 01 2010 21:22 Squeegy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2010 21:10 Pika Chu wrote:
I didn't read any books on this matter. Maybe fragments of some, each and there. And yet you think you have a clear idea about one of the most complex conflicts in history? And that one side is the absolute villain here?
Any recommendations?
Would Robert Fisk would be on your no-no list? ^^
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On June 01 2010 21:28 Not_A_Notion wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2010 21:22 Squeegy wrote:On June 01 2010 21:10 Pika Chu wrote:
I didn't read any books on this matter. Maybe fragments of some, each and there. And yet you think you have a clear idea about one of the most complex conflicts in history? And that one side is the absolute villain here? Any recommendations? Would Robert Fisk would be on your no-no list? ^^
He is probably one of the few people who has a clear view of what is happening down there as well as more experience and knowledge about the conflict than most.
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EPT
