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Gaming Can Change The World - Page 4

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RosaParksStoleMySeat
Profile Joined December 2009
Japan926 Posts
March 18 2010 23:21 GMT
#61
I am more interested in the effect that games have on cognitive development. I'd like to hear about some neurobiology studies on left and right hemisphere involvement in the playing of certain games. I'd like to see the levels of brain activity while playing games compared to activity levels involved in other activities such as watching television, surfing the Internet casually, and studying.

One issue that I have with her work is that these in-game attitudes do not necessarily apply to real-life. If there is research indicating that they do, then she has a real slam dunk of an argument. If not, then she needs to go back to the drawing board.
anch
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
United States5457 Posts
March 18 2010 23:22 GMT
#62
The lady puts too much positive effect on playing WoW.
I understand WoW does give coordination and social skills but that's only if you are top of the management. Underlings follow order because they want to stay in the guild, just as a employee follow his order to keep his job. I dont see how playing 1 more hour per day can change anything.
Games are still games, it cant just teach kids algebra and reasoning of the real world. Its not like "hey if we screw up this financial project (raid) we can always try again tomorrow".

I know my arguement are weak, just want to point it out.

CommanderFluffy
Profile Joined June 2008
Taiwan1059 Posts
March 18 2010 23:22 GMT
#63
On March 19 2010 08:12 Alou wrote:
Games have social interaction. Do people not talk and strategize on TeamSpeak or Ventrilo? It may not be face to face, but you don't need to see someone to interact with them. Interaction through a computer is still interaction.


The social interaction through a computer screen, a microphone are all very different from interacting with someone face to face. You miss out on a huge part of human interaction that is body language.

Pain is temporary, but glory is forever.
RosaParksStoleMySeat
Profile Joined December 2009
Japan926 Posts
March 18 2010 23:25 GMT
#64
On March 19 2010 08:22 CommanderFluffy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 19 2010 08:12 Alou wrote:
Games have social interaction. Do people not talk and strategize on TeamSpeak or Ventrilo? It may not be face to face, but you don't need to see someone to interact with them. Interaction through a computer is still interaction.


The social interaction through a computer screen, a microphone are all very different from interacting with someone face to face. You miss out on a huge part of human interaction that is body language.



Don't forget about the anonymity aspect of online social interaction .
Manifesto7
Profile Blog Joined November 2002
Osaka27148 Posts
March 18 2010 23:30 GMT
#65
On March 19 2010 08:21 RosaParksStoleMySeat wrote:
I am more interested in the effect that games have on cognitive development. I'd like to hear about some neurobiology studies on left and right hemisphere involvement in the playing of certain games. I'd like to see the levels of brain activity while playing games compared to activity levels involved in other activities such as watching television, surfing the Internet casually, and studying.

One issue that I have with her work is that these in-game attitudes do not necessarily apply to real-life. If there is research indicating that they do, then she has a real slam dunk of an argument. If not, then she needs to go back to the drawing board.


You might be interested in part of the sarcraft progaming documentary done by national geographic (which is on youtube, and was done by the member "The Storyteller" on TL). It goes into the brain activity of progamers.
ModeratorGodfather
RosaParksStoleMySeat
Profile Joined December 2009
Japan926 Posts
March 18 2010 23:51 GMT
#66
On March 19 2010 08:30 Manifesto7 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 19 2010 08:21 RosaParksStoleMySeat wrote:
I am more interested in the effect that games have on cognitive development. I'd like to hear about some neurobiology studies on left and right hemisphere involvement in the playing of certain games. I'd like to see the levels of brain activity while playing games compared to activity levels involved in other activities such as watching television, surfing the Internet casually, and studying.

One issue that I have with her work is that these in-game attitudes do not necessarily apply to real-life. If there is research indicating that they do, then she has a real slam dunk of an argument. If not, then she needs to go back to the drawing board.


You might be interested in part of the sarcraft progaming documentary done by national geographic (which is on youtube, and was done by the member "The Storyteller" on TL). It goes into the brain activity of progamers.


Morning man. You're up early xD.

That does sound really interesting. I'll check it out.
StRyKeR
Profile Blog Joined January 2006
United States1739 Posts
March 19 2010 00:40 GMT
#67
On March 18 2010 13:20 Cloud wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 18 2010 13:00 StRyKeR wrote:
I don't agree with everything she says, but she brought out a very good point.

If you reward people with the right incentives, they'll spend hours "wasting" their lives on it. If you can just take a real world problem and turn it into Starcraft, people all over the world will spend 21 billion hours a week trying to solve it. The challenge is to find a compromise between complete reality (which gamers often shun) and complete fiction (which doesn't help the world at all).

I just thought of this now, but I think a great example = math competitions. For math nerds like me, it is incredibly satisfying to solve tricky puzzles. I wasn't caring about the world. I wasn't trying to help anyone. Nonetheless, the training I got from those puzzles is helping me solve real world problems, get a job, etc. etc. If anyone viewed math competitions the way I did, they would be addicted to it as well. It just happens that having those skills helps in real life.


You mean like adding a tv news show? Or placing a starving african child on the back of your teen magazine? Or a satirical novel?

It has been done over and over and it hasn't worked for shit. People just don't like facing reality. They are only rational when they're playing a game, reading a novel or drowning in a gallon of whisky. Yet they turn into some kind of blind, dumb, deaf and mature zombie when facing reality.


Clearly, the avenues you mentioned have been tried and haven't worked. I think you're missing the point though. I'm saying that there are many useful activities in the world that are in fact games. Sports, math competitions, playing "pretend" as kids, etc. These activities add value to the world. The question is can we port this over to computer games.

I'm sure there are computer games that at least VAGUELY fall into this area. I don't claim that there ARE any computer games that truly add value.
Ars longa, vita brevis, principia aeturna.
TaG]SiG
Profile Joined October 2007
United Kingdom53 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-03-19 01:11:10
March 19 2010 01:04 GMT
#68
I learnt a huge amount about business efficiency from playing starcraft, many people struggle to understand these ideas initially
EDIT decided to elaborate e.g.
Cash Is King - money is more valuable today than tomorrow.
Positive Multiplier Effect - put money in the system and it can be used to create more money
Capacity Utilization - having one factory running at 100% is cheaper than 2 running at 50%

But i would say overall my gaming careers has probably had a negative impact on potential

Interesting ideas, especially the video that links to commercialism, but i think the scale of these ideas must be reduced drastically. learning to drive a car in a simulator is not learning to drive a car
Judicator
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States7270 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-03-19 03:37:44
March 19 2010 03:36 GMT
#69
On March 19 2010 08:22 anch wrote:
The lady puts too much positive effect on playing WoW.
I understand WoW does give coordination and social skills but that's only if you are top of the management. Underlings follow order because they want to stay in the guild, just as a employee follow his order to keep his job. I dont see how playing 1 more hour per day can change anything.
Games are still games, it cant just teach kids algebra and reasoning of the real world. Its not like "hey if we screw up this financial project (raid) we can always try again tomorrow".

I know my arguement are weak, just want to point it out.



I don't think she does; she more or less emphasis points that are often ignored by critics of WoW and when the "positives" of WoW/gaming are explored it more often than not leads to the success of the game in terms of player base, profits, or how it changed the field. In other words, there's a clear distinction that is drawn between the gaming world and real world when in fact the distinction hasn't been as clear for I would guess the last 20 years. She's in essence making that argument in an exaggerated way.

Going along with WoW, individuals in the (average) raiding guilds quickly learn a few things; not everyone tries their best, not everyone has the best intentions of the guild in mind , not everyone respect and/or like you based on their opinion regardless of how trivial or senseless it maybe, and etc. On the other hand, it's hardly an accurate portrayal of the real world (whatever you want to define that as), but it certainly shares some parallels that are very similar.

Also, there is the danger of over-extrapolating/overstating of the apparent facts in a situation like this.

Lastly, there are a few studies now that show certain video games improve some aspects of cognitive functions like memory and spatial learning as well as teamwork, organization, and etc. So its not all games are just games. Tetris has been used for neurological studies more frequently this past decade.
Get it by your hands...
Alou
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States3748 Posts
March 19 2010 14:37 GMT
#70
On March 19 2010 12:36 Judicator wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 19 2010 08:22 anch wrote:
The lady puts too much positive effect on playing WoW.
I understand WoW does give coordination and social skills but that's only if you are top of the management. Underlings follow order because they want to stay in the guild, just as a employee follow his order to keep his job. I dont see how playing 1 more hour per day can change anything.
Games are still games, it cant just teach kids algebra and reasoning of the real world. Its not like "hey if we screw up this financial project (raid) we can always try again tomorrow".

I know my arguement are weak, just want to point it out.



I don't think she does; she more or less emphasis points that are often ignored by critics of WoW and when the "positives" of WoW/gaming are explored it more often than not leads to the success of the game in terms of player base, profits, or how it changed the field. In other words, there's a clear distinction that is drawn between the gaming world and real world when in fact the distinction hasn't been as clear for I would guess the last 20 years. She's in essence making that argument in an exaggerated way.

Going along with WoW, individuals in the (average) raiding guilds quickly learn a few things; not everyone tries their best, not everyone has the best intentions of the guild in mind , not everyone respect and/or like you based on their opinion regardless of how trivial or senseless it maybe, and etc. On the other hand, it's hardly an accurate portrayal of the real world (whatever you want to define that as), but it certainly shares some parallels that are very similar.

Also, there is the danger of over-extrapolating/overstating of the apparent facts in a situation like this.

Lastly, there are a few studies now that show certain video games improve some aspects of cognitive functions like memory and spatial learning as well as teamwork, organization, and etc. So its not all games are just games. Tetris has been used for neurological studies more frequently this past decade.


I agree with a lot of this. I think the people just pushing this away as crazy are the ones with a very negative look at gaming (Despite gaming themselves?) and are the ones missing out. There are skills developed in games, that could have real world value if we figure out how to translate them into the real world. Jane Mcgonigal is at the beginning of her career and still figuring things out, but she does have an interesting theory that does hold some truth.
Life is Good.
GGTeMpLaR
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States7226 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-03-19 14:51:47
March 19 2010 14:43 GMT
#71
I would have turned it off after 5-10 minutes if I didn't think she was a cutie

pretty sure this is like a speech project or something related to public speaking (after seeing the end logo, it IS basically some public speaking program/school) and she just happened to pick what she thought would be an "easy topic/easy A" or "something she would enjoy working on"

she made as many logical fallacies as a politician
Alou
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States3748 Posts
March 19 2010 14:59 GMT
#72
On March 19 2010 23:43 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
I would have turned it off after 5-10 minutes if I didn't think she was a cutie

pretty sure this is like a speech project or something related to public speaking (after seeing the end logo, it IS basically some public speaking program/school) and she just happened to pick what she thought would be an "easy topic/easy A" or "something she would enjoy working on"

she made as many logical fallacies as a politician


It's TED. It's a convention where people go and talk about whatever they want. Tons of brilliant people are invited and you only get in with an invitation. And she isn't a student. She's been designing games for years. I've played one and they are pretty interesting.
Life is Good.
Railxp
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
Hong Kong1313 Posts
March 19 2010 19:43 GMT
#73
what is with the hordes of negative grumps pouring buckets of filth on this? all she is proposing is that real-world problems can be better solved if understood and approached from a framework of video-gaming. She used some far-fetched exaggerations to make her point, but we are all gamers here and have all seen those starcraft-applied-to-girl-problems threads. And how many times have we thought that "oh if i've just invested all my SC time into academics, i'd have a 4.0 GPA and a stellar resume!" The brain-development science backs her up, and she just voiced what we've all experienced to brilliant old influential people.

We've all had the "oh wow! i didn't think this crazy cheese would work!" moments. As she said, gamers win because they are willing to do crazy out of the box strats. And her idea sounds exactly just like one of those.
~\(。◕‿‿◕。)/~,,,,,,,,>
QuanticHawk
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States32051 Posts
March 19 2010 20:18 GMT
#74
On March 20 2010 04:43 Railxp wrote:
She used some far-fetched exaggerations to make her point, but we are all gamers here and have all seen those starcraft-applied-to-girl-problems threads.


Yes, what could possibly go wrong with a bunch of socially inept people posting on the internet and utilizing starcraft analogies to creep on girls.
PROFESSIONAL GAMER - SEND ME OFFERS TO JOIN YOUR TEAM - USA USA USA
tissue
Profile Joined April 2009
Malaysia441 Posts
March 19 2010 20:32 GMT
#75
Gaming has lots of transferable skills... if you are 9 years old, or lack a logically functioning mind.

Also failure in a game has less impact, you just dust yourself off and try again - it's just a game, after all. Failure in real life can have huge social, economic, and emotional consequences. For every epic win achieved, don't forget the endless amounts of epic fail.
Alou
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States3748 Posts
March 19 2010 20:36 GMT
#76
On March 20 2010 05:32 tissue wrote:
Gaming has lots of transferable skills... if you are 9 years old, or lack a logically functioning mind.

Also failure in a game has less impact, you just dust yourself off and try again - it's just a game, after all. Failure in real life can have huge social, economic, and emotional consequences. For every epic win achieved, don't forget the endless amounts of epic fail.


So? If we take this 'I can do anything' mentality we get in gaming and put it in real life we will have fails (just like everyone does, whether you're a gamer or not), but also perhaps more chances at epic wins. A chance to really affect the world in a positive way because we have a mentality that makes us feel like we can do something positive if we give it a try.

I think it's at least worth a shot and further research. She needs more research for her theory, but it is still a very good theory.
Life is Good.
CharlieMurphy
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
United States22895 Posts
March 19 2010 20:41 GMT
#77
On March 19 2010 23:59 Alou wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 19 2010 23:43 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
I would have turned it off after 5-10 minutes if I didn't think she was a cutie

pretty sure this is like a speech project or something related to public speaking (after seeing the end logo, it IS basically some public speaking program/school) and she just happened to pick what she thought would be an "easy topic/easy A" or "something she would enjoy working on"

she made as many logical fallacies as a politician


It's TED. It's a convention where people go and talk about whatever they want. Tons of brilliant people are invited and you only get in with an invitation. And she isn't a student. She's been designing games for years. I've played one and they are pretty interesting.

I thought some of the people had to pay thousands of dollars to go to events and even more if they were doing a speech.
..and then I would, ya know, check em'. (Aka SpoR)
Alou
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States3748 Posts
March 19 2010 21:36 GMT
#78
On March 20 2010 05:41 CharlieMurphy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 19 2010 23:59 Alou wrote:
On March 19 2010 23:43 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
I would have turned it off after 5-10 minutes if I didn't think she was a cutie

pretty sure this is like a speech project or something related to public speaking (after seeing the end logo, it IS basically some public speaking program/school) and she just happened to pick what she thought would be an "easy topic/easy A" or "something she would enjoy working on"

she made as many logical fallacies as a politician


It's TED. It's a convention where people go and talk about whatever they want. Tons of brilliant people are invited and you only get in with an invitation. And she isn't a student. She's been designing games for years. I've played one and they are pretty interesting.

I thought some of the people had to pay thousands of dollars to go to events and even more if they were doing a speech.


You get invited, then you have to pay a couple thousand of dollars to attend. The money covers the cost of the conference and usually goes to a prize each year, although previously there were multiple prizes. The prize money is meant to be used to help further a person's research or wish or whatever they're talking about. They've given over 1 million if I'm correct.
Life is Good.
LG)Sabbath
Profile Blog Joined July 2005
Argentina3022 Posts
March 20 2010 05:27 GMT
#79
On March 19 2010 08:14 Manifesto7 wrote:
Stuff like this is pretty tepid. It is interaction, but so is buying my gas, working on a school project, or organizing a family dinner. There is only so much stock you can put in these types of "learning situations".

I think most people are missing the point on this. You can learn social skills from other stuff, like you can learn to be a leader from being put in a mid-management position at your job, but you probably won't give a shit if your team gets results or not, or get really bored and tired of it, whereas at a game, you'd be motivated to improve your social skills because that would result in an improvement on your status as a gamer, and this probably applies even to WoW.

tl;dr wow guild leader wants to improve as a leader, employee doesnt give a shit about leadership
https://www.twitch.tv/argsabbath/
ComradeDover
Profile Joined November 2009
Bulgaria758 Posts
March 20 2010 07:42 GMT
#80
Sounds perfectly reasonable.
Bring back 2v2s!
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