EPTGoogle's New Approach to China - Page 3
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KissBlade
United States5718 Posts
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n.DieJokes
United States3443 Posts
On January 13 2010 10:51 Magic84 wrote: You think they don't have an equivalent? Free access to Youtube, Zoo porn, um other kinds of porn, gore and other internet treasure. Okay. What else? Democracy voting? Your population will vote for that guy media promotes, as simple as that and there is no other way. *sigh | ||
Emlary
China3334 Posts
Those who say Chinese don't care Google (we have Baidu), Facebook (we have Renren), Blogspot, Twitter (we have Sina), Youtube (we have Youku, Tudou), you'd better say on your own behalf. Even CCTV use Youtube videos occasionally (oh yeah they must have some stable proxy or VPN to open Youtube from China). No one can speak for 1.3 billion population. Yes, my grandparents can live with it because they don't go online; my parents can live with it as well because all they do online is playing mahjong or shopping. But I hate living with it. What Chinese government do is to make most people shut up and let a few "speak" on 2 or 3 obedient sites under censorship. | ||
motbob
United States12546 Posts
On January 13 2010 10:51 Magic84 wrote: You think they don't have an equivalent? Free access to Youtube, Zoo porn, um other kinds of porn, gore and other internet treasure. Okay. What else? Democracy voting? Your population will vote for that guy media promotes, as simple as that and there is no other way. How can you know what our media is like? I know for a fact that China restricts a whole bunch of freedoms and fails to guarantee others. I know that no matter what, freedom of the press in the United States is guaranteed. There have been attempts in the past from the U.S. government to squash that right (Pentagon Papers), and those attempts have been unsuccessful. On the other hand, the Chinese government claims to guarantee that right, but in reality does not. | ||
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Magic84
Russian Federation1381 Posts
On January 13 2010 11:06 Emlary wrote: First news I read today. Sad, too sad to feel any anger. Be evil or leaving China, Google made a decision 4 years ago and now they regret it. I want to hear more on this from their fiscal results conference call next week. Those who say Chinese don't care Google (we have Baidu), Facebook (we have Renren), Blogspot, Twitter (we have Sina), Youtube (we have Youku, Tudou), you'd better say on your own behalf. Even CCTV use Youtube videos occasionally (oh yeah they must have some stable proxy or VPN to open Youtube from China). No one can speak for 1.3 billion population. Yes, my grandparents can live with it because they don't go online; my parents can live with it as well because all they do online is playing mahjong or shopping. But I hate living with it. What Chinese government do is to make most people shut up and let a few "speak" on 2 or 3 obedient sites under censorship. If you are interested in politics and want to talk about it. You can go and talk to people that matter politically, educated about politics. All what casual, unrelated to politics people do is parroting what they read on news without understanding of anything. It's the intelligent elite of a nation that should take decisions. | ||
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KissBlade
United States5718 Posts
On January 13 2010 11:20 motbob wrote: How can you know what our media is like? I know for a fact that China restricts a whole bunch of freedoms and fails to guarantee others. I know that no matter what, freedom of the press in the United States is guaranteed. There have been attempts in the past from the U.S. government to squash that right (Pentagon Papers), and those attempts have been unsuccessful. On the other hand, the Chinese government claims to guarantee that right, but in reality does not. ...? This is very confusing to me. Do you even know the Chinese government constitution? Because you're talking as if you do. On January 13 2010 11:06 Emlary wrote: First news I read today. Sad, too sad to feel any anger. Be evil or leaving China, Google made a decision 4 years ago and now they regret it. I want to hear more on this from their fiscal results conference call next week. Those who say Chinese don't care Google (we have Baidu), Facebook (we have Renren), Blogspot, Twitter (we have Sina), Youtube (we have Youku, Tudou), you'd better say on your own behalf. Even CCTV use Youtube videos occasionally (oh yeah they must have some stable proxy or VPN to open Youtube from China). No one can speak for 1.3 billion population. Yes, my grandparents can live with it because they don't go online; my parents can live with it as well because all they do online is playing mahjong or shopping. But I hate living with it. What Chinese government do is to make most people shut up and let a few "speak" on 2 or 3 obedient sites under censorship. I don't mean to sound the way people do when they go like "if you hate it so much why don't you leave?" but I'm actually curious why do you stay? Immigration from China to the US isn't that difficult. On January 13 2010 11:23 Magic84 wrote: If you are interested in politics and want to talk about it. You can go and talk to people that matter politically, educated about politics. All what casual, unrelated to politics people do is parroting what they read on news without understanding of anything. It's the intelligent elite of a nation that should take decisions. When you're speaking of a junta of any sort, power can easily corrupt. While I think the current Chinese government is doing a good job (say what you will but at least China's improving the average standard of living for it's citizens unlike what's going on here =(! ) I think blanket statements for any sort of government is ... idealistic at best. >.< | ||
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Emlary
China3334 Posts
I'm worried that maybe one day I can't open TL because TL doesn't register at Chinese government, fails to make the "white list" - any foreign site goes to the blacklist automatically. Some officials have already mentioned this. No one knows when this is gonna happen. | ||
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KissBlade
United States5718 Posts
On January 13 2010 11:33 Emlary wrote: I don't want to talk about politics at all. If possible, I don't hear the word in my entire life. But it disturbs my life. I'm worried that maybe one day I can't open TL because TL doesn't register at Chinese government, fails to make the "white list" - any foreign site goes to the blacklist automatically. Some officials have already mentioned this. No one knows when this is gonna happen. While I understand your position, I feel I should say, if you're going to try to just "ignore politics" than complaining about it is just stupid. Students have always been one of the most vocal elements in Chinese politics, the idea of just "standing aside" when you have such a disagreement with the system is just ... unnatural to me. | ||
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L
Canada4732 Posts
On January 13 2010 11:36 KissBlade wrote: While I understand your position, I feel I should say, if you're going to try to just "ignore politics" than complaining about it is just stupid. Students have always been one of the most vocal elements in Chinese politics, the idea of just "standing aside" when you have such a disagreement with the system is just ... unnatural to me. The reasonable person is never one to change a system to conform to his wishes, instead he changes to conform to the system; its the stubborn unreasonable person that refuses to conform to the system and thus is the catalyst for its reform. | ||
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meegrean
Thailand7699 Posts
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motbob
United States12546 Posts
On January 13 2010 11:28 KissBlade wrote: ...? This is very confusing to me. Do you even know the Chinese government constitution? Because you're talking as if you do. It's not as if it's any big secret. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_the_People's_Republic_of_China | ||
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Idig
China10 Posts
On January 13 2010 11:33 Emlary wrote: I don't want to talk about politics at all. If possible, I don't hear the word in my entire life. But it disturbs my life. I'm worried that maybe one day I can't open TL because TL doesn't register at Chinese government, fails to make the "white list" - any foreign site goes to the blacklist automatically. Some officials have already mentioned this. No one knows when this is gonna happen. me, too. I don't to talk about this, but I think this is whole a political thing. Maybe some other people don't know what is happening here in China. The government is doing almost everything to reduce the freedom of speech. They closed thousands of websites because of the so called "porn reason". They tell us that gambling is not legal and smoking is not healthy. But actually, prostitution, lottery ticket selling and tobacco are all controlled and could be controlled only by themselves. Sorry about my poor English. BTW, I'm trying to learn English to emmigrate abroad. This is not very easy to many of us. It depends on many conditions including lots of money. | ||
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Magic84
Russian Federation1381 Posts
On January 13 2010 11:20 motbob wrote: How can you know what our media is like? I know for a fact that China restricts a whole bunch of freedoms and fails to guarantee others. I know that no matter what, freedom of the press in the United States is guaranteed. There have been attempts in the past from the U.S. government to squash that right (Pentagon Papers), and those attempts have been unsuccessful. On the other hand, the Chinese government claims to guarantee that right, but in reality does not. I know a whole bunch about your media and about media in general. The fact that it was free, or i'd say free for grabs, it allowed for organized effort to buy it out completely. Right now it is controlled. Right now it's the nastiest propaganda machine that world has ever seen, you are presented with very limited information, ignoring a lot of atrocious events and subjects and concentrating on minor violence and injustices in China or Middle East. Same can be said about Western and Eastern Europe but the situation is not as gross. It's not politically correct issue to talk about on american forum, but you will easily find out if you just try. | ||
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Pyrrhuloxia
United States6700 Posts
On January 13 2010 11:44 L wrote: The reasonable person is never one to change a system to conform to his wishes, instead he changes to conform to the system; its the stubborn unreasonable person that refuses to conform to the system and thus is the catalyst for its reform. The river just goes along with the flow, following the contours of the rock. How could something as powerless as an individual water molecule possibly destroy a mighty rock in its lifetime? But over generations, a deep, beautiful canyon is formed. | ||
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motbob
United States12546 Posts
On January 13 2010 11:53 Magic84 wrote: I know a whole bunch about your media and about media in general. The fact that it was free, or i'd say free for grabs, it allowed for organized effort to buy it out completely. Right now it is controlled. Right now it's the nastiest propaganda machine that world has ever seen, you are presented with very limited information, ignoring a lot of atrocious events and subjects and concentrating on minor violence and injustices in China or Middle East. Same can be said about Western and Eastern Europe but the situation is not as gross. It's not politically correct issue to talk about on american forum, but you will easily find out if you just try. "I'm going to make a lot of claims about something that I'm not directly experiencing, but I won't try to provide any evidence because it wouldn't be 'politically correct.'" | ||
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L
Canada4732 Posts
On January 13 2010 11:54 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: The river just goes along with the flow, following the contours of the rock. How could something as powerless as an individual water molecule possibly destroy a mighty rock in its lifetime? But over generations, a deep, beautiful canyon is formed. Single water molecule doesn't destroy the mighty rock, which is itself probably a bunch of powerless molecules too. Nice style, though. | ||
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.risingdragoon
United States3021 Posts
Neither is politics wholly responsible for the "human rights" issues, which more often than not is a matter of bureaucratic ineffectiveness. China has about 1/3 of the laws US has, and x4 the population, and it's mid-industrialization. So there's a whole lot of factors at work here. Dynastic China has allowed foreign entities to destabilize its society once already, it'll never again make that mistake. Western democracy is not feasible for China (like it's not feasible in all the places it foisted its ideal on, which in term become hopelessly corupt), instead it'll have to be like the economic reform where China will take it and recreate it to suit its own social-economic realities (while protecting itself from foreign influences). China will be in control of China, that's the whole enchilada, the bottomline. | ||
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Magic84
Russian Federation1381 Posts
On January 13 2010 11:55 motbob wrote: "I'm going to make a lot of claims about something that I'm not directly experiencing, but I won't try to provide any evidence because it wouldn't be 'politically correct.'" I agree, it's just me being a pussy. Alright. What can you say about this Video? | ||
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ilbh
Brazil1606 Posts
On January 13 2010 10:42 Magic84 wrote: Free world that kill million innocents right? Their government is far less evil than yours, that's for sure. And what kind of freedom do you have, that chinese don't? says the russian guy!! like that if you never had innocent killing in Russia and your country doesn't sell armament and finance terrorists countries like Syria, Iran, afghanistan, N Korea, etc. and your president respect his opponents, right? my family had to move away from Russia or they would be killed there, moved to poland and then to brazil, where they are respected, there is no racism, intolerance, etc.... USA spreads democracy, removing those crazy dictators who only leads their countries to wars and genocide. I hope they do the same with N. Korea and Iran, before they start sending nuclear bombs around. don't want to see Japan, S. Korea or Israel destroyed... or even European countries, since Iran is doing what they can to have missiles able to reach Europe. I know this thread is only informative about google and china, but I couldn't see his post and be quiet... edit: Im not saying that russian, n. korean or iranians are bad people, but their governants are... | ||
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.risingdragoon
United States3021 Posts
On January 13 2010 11:55 motbob wrote: "I'm going to make a lot of claims about something that I'm not directly experiencing, but I won't try to provide any evidence because it wouldn't be 'politically correct.'" Actually he's right. Here in the US regular people are being deliberately kept in the dark on a lot of imortant issues. That's cus mass media has been undergoing huge consolidation and privatization since the 70s. And any educated person will tell you, an informed public via decentralized reporting is one of the pillars of democracy. What do we hear on the news the most these days? Nothing really impacting, just the 4Cs - children (most likely disabled), critters (trapped on a tree), catastrophe (big pileups, crop failures, etc.), and celebs, celebs, CELEBS... | ||
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