EPTIf they fix the neuteral RR problem it would be great as well but I dont know exactly what would make that happen without it being a mechanic used to grief others.
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Viceorvirtue
United States273 Posts
If they fix the neuteral RR problem it would be great as well but I dont know exactly what would make that happen without it being a mechanic used to grief others. | ||
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419
Russian Federation3632 Posts
On February 24 2012 20:39 Viceorvirtue wrote: With all the ways to avoid wardecs, such as dropping corp or even using the dec shield alliance to join and get kicked (resulting in you not being a wt in 24 hours) they really should make it so that the agressers have more of an edge, or at the very least can force people to pvp. If they fix the neuteral RR problem it would be great as well but I dont know exactly what would make that happen without it being a mechanic used to grief others. neutral RR = flagged as valid war target for the duration of the war dec, podkill rights and all, imo but what do I care? I have no personal investment in this. | ||
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Warri
Germany3208 Posts
On February 24 2012 20:39 Viceorvirtue wrote: With all the ways to avoid wardecs, such as dropping corp or even using the dec shield alliance to join and get kicked (resulting in you not being a wt in 24 hours) they really should make it so that the agressers have more of an edge, or at the very least can force people to pvp. If they fix the neuteral RR problem it would be great as well but I dont know exactly what would make that happen without it being a mechanic used to grief others. Youre such a griefer. Yeah he should totally be able to force the defenders to fight, yet still hop between his 20 corps with different wardecs at his will so he can force them all to fight, lulz. | ||
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hugman
Sweden4644 Posts
On February 24 2012 06:55 abominare wrote: Actually Velocity and Angular are the two best to have. Angular tells you if you can hit him, i mean you could put traversal but then you'd have to convert it to angular to check against your tracking but whatever. Velocity tells you if hes burning or not, and whether or not its towards or away. This assumes that distance is a given. Everything else is simply clutter. Radial velocity is super useful. It tells you the speed at which someone is moving in relation to you, that is how fast the raw distance between you and him is changing. Of course you can infer that from reading both the velocity and the angular velocity column, but it's slower. If you see -2000m/s on the overview you see that he's burning for you right away. | ||
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Warri
Germany3208 Posts
dafuq did i just watch sums it up pretty much | ||
Firebolt145
Lalalaland34507 Posts
On February 24 2012 21:04 hugman wrote: Radial velocity is super useful. It tells you the speed at which someone is moving in relation to you, that is how fast the raw distance between you and him is changing. Of course you can infer that from reading both the velocity and the angular velocity column, but it's slower. If you see -2000m/s on the overview you see that he's burning for you right away. I dunno, I actually use my eyes to see that their dot is moving closer to mine, or that the distance is getting smaller etc. As for hisec warlording, they somehow need to find a good balance. I don't envy their job. That said, fuck sec status farming. | ||
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NoSlack
United States112 Posts
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KwarK
United States44387 Posts
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DefMatrixUltra
Canada1992 Posts
On February 25 2012 01:11 NoSlack wrote: Velocity and your eyes should be all that you need. You should know how fast your ship is, so should know that the target is going faster or slower than you. This is a totally dishonest argument that I have seen repeatedly applied to other things in the game as well. Radial velocity tells you a very specific piece of information without any figuring or attention or brainpower on your part. You could just as easily tell me (as so many people do) that angular velocity isn't needed because you can figure it out from transversal velocity and distance. Of course they don't mention that you need to do fairly complicated on-the-fly deep-decimal division over and over and over to get the same info as angular velocity - but hey, that's just a detail. To get the same information from Radial Velocity as from Velocity and Distance, you have to either a) zoom out and wait several seconds for the movement pattern to become apparent (unless it's an interceptor burning at your slow battlecruiser etc.) or b1) Right click target --> Look At b2) Move the camera around in space until you find yourself b3) Guess the align of the target in relation to your align b4) Do some basic trig to figure out exactly your relational velocities. b5) Right click space --> Reset Camera, and move yourself back to your comfortable zoom level Notice how both a) and b) take a lot more work than just glancing at a number in a column. Now, yes, you do NOT need to know EXACTLY the radial velocity, and you can do basic figuring without all this work - but, equally, you can just look at a number in a column and get 100% of the information you need. That said, I personally don't use Radial Velocity. But I don't bullshit myself or others by saying you don't need it or that it isn't useful. | ||
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Firebolt145
Lalalaland34507 Posts
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TurpinOS
Canada1223 Posts
On February 25 2012 00:19 Firebolt145 wrote: I dunno, I actually use my eyes to see that their dot is moving closer to mine, or that the distance is getting smaller etc. As for hisec warlording, they somehow need to find a good balance. I don't envy their job. That said, fuck sec status farming. You could also just use the tab called DISTANCE, it usually tells you if the ship is moving towards or away from you. I dont understand why you would need anything else then velocity and distance on your overview (okay maybe transversal if youre in ships like zealot of something but :screenspace  . Those 2 give you everything youd ever need, dont require any thinking, and dont take too much space on your screen.I have no clue why Id ever have the need to figure out the speed of a ship in relation to mine, I know my speed, I know its speed, and I know if hes coming to tackle me or if hes just randomnly burning from the distance, thats enough. | ||
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KwarK
United States44387 Posts
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DefMatrixUltra
Canada1992 Posts
On February 25 2012 02:02 KwarK wrote: I am really enjoying imagining Def reading that. It's like that kid in math class in high school who always questions the utility of division/algebra/trig/calculus based on the argument: "when would I even use that?" The fact that they ask the question validates entirely their being subjected to the material. /edit - also my mentee is a fucking bawwss http://teamliquid.killmail.org/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=12542904 | ||
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NoSlack
United States112 Posts
Damn afghan interwebz. | ||
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NoSlack
United States112 Posts
Good camera skills can improve your situational awareness much more than extra overview columns. Especially when there's another nano gang going all different directions. Try to sort those out in the overview. Don't right click and "look at" the target. Just rotate your camera around (still centered on you) and adjust zoom with the mouse wheel until you can see what you need to see. With you still centered your point of reference isn't thrown off like it is using 'look at' and the camera actually flying to the target. It's easier to see enemy gangs this way and put all the moving ships into perspective. Also, it's very fast once you are used to it. Oh, and I loved math class  Math and chemistry were my only straight A's. | ||
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DefMatrixUltra
Canada1992 Posts
On February 25 2012 02:36 NoSlack wrote: Def I see what you are saying, and understand the benefit. As FB stated, screen space is valuable. Some things aren't worth the space they take up. Not that they aren't interesting to look at, but really aren't necessary. Good camera skills can improve your situational awareness much more than extra overview columns. Especially when there's another nano gang going all different directions. Try to sort those out in the overview. [1] Don't right click and "look at" the target. Just rotate your camera around (still centered on you) and adjust zoom with the mouse wheel until you can see what you need to see. With you still centered your point of reference isn't thrown off like it is using 'look at' and the camera actually flying to the target. It's easier to see enemy gangs this way and put all the moving ships into perspective. Also, it's very fast once you are used to it. [2] Oh, and I loved math class Math and chemistry were my only straight A's. [3][1] Notice how you made an argument against using the Radial Velocity column without saying that it's not useful or that you can just as easily get the information from doing other stuff. That was my point. You don't need Radial Velocity to play the game (or even play the game well), but that doesn't mean it's not useful. [2] No one actually does the things that I described in my post (hopefully). That was the point. I was recreating a situation where you are able to get 100% of the information that Radial Velocity gives you and demonstrating that it is, in fact, a lot of information and not terribly easy to "calculate" on-the-fly. [3] That comment was not directed towards you. | ||
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TurpinOS
Canada1223 Posts
On February 25 2012 02:33 DefMatrixUltra wrote: It's like that kid in math class in high school who always questions the utility of division/algebra/trig/calculus based on the argument: "when would I even use that?" The fact that they ask the question validates entirely their being subjected to the material. /edit - also my mentee is a fucking bawwss http://teamliquid.killmail.org/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=12542904 Being subjected to the material, yes Using said material and having the window space, no Im not saying its entirely useless, Im only saying that when I fly my ship I can do perfectly fine without it and there are no situations where I tell myself ''oh I wish I had that data''. The discussion here is obviously not about whether or not its something useful to know, its about if its good enough to be worth clustering your screen. (Which makes it completely different to the math exam, Im not too worried in math about running out of memory space) | ||
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Firebolt145
Lalalaland34507 Posts
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TurpinOS
Canada1223 Posts
On February 25 2012 02:48 Firebolt145 wrote: I lost a lot of marks back in math because I'd never show my working because I was lazy. Does that apply here?????????? Well you're now a reknown math teach with its own book so tell your old teachers to suck it... | ||
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DefMatrixUltra
Canada1992 Posts
On February 25 2012 02:44 TurpinOS wrote: Im not saying its entirely useless, Im only saying that when I fly my ship I can do perfectly fine without it and there are no situations where I tell myself ''oh I wish I had that data''. The discussion here is obviously not about whether or not its something useful to know, its about if its good enough to be worth clustering your screen. (Which makes it completely different to the math exam, Im not too worried in math about running out of memory space) I actually agree with you. In my opinion, the only absolutely 100% necessary thing to have on the overview to enable you to play the game well is Velocity (since distance is shown in the game window and on the target icon), but Distance is too useful not to have (because sort by distance makes the overview more readable in 99% of situations). I just get irked by people that suggest that "x piece of information isn't useful because you can do math/feel it out/lrn2play/etc.". As a physicist, I appreciate the value of basic attributes and how they can be used to great effect (in fact, you can derive every single numerical piece of information on the overview purely from Distance). But that also means I have an extreme prejudice against base attributes in practice and much prefer derived attributes since their utility in specific situations is much higher (i.e. they give a lot more information with much less work involved). ----------- Also my new hard drive finally arrived last night, and I am currently trying to organize and redo the work that was lost when the previous one died. In a day or two, I'll probably be back on regular EVE-capable schedule. | ||
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