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On April 06 2011 20:36 PainBall wrote:how do u guys feel about this incoming patch? i`m kinda sad cos my anoms will be halfened in number so screw ccp!  about the other changes .. dunno i must see
anoms are imba as fuck anyway, and i was a nullsec dweller when they introduced them. they needed redistribution, and space needed a disparity in quality anyway.
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On April 06 2011 22:44 pahndah wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2011 20:00 Mumbleskates wrote:On April 06 2011 17:44 pahndah wrote:On April 06 2011 15:41 Altaen wrote:On April 06 2011 10:20 pahndah wrote:On April 05 2011 22:10 Thezzy wrote:
Tri-rep or double rep Myrm with ACs and tracking disruptors can be decent solo boats against a variety of targets, primarily turret boats.
If you trade an AC or two for neuts you'd solo something like a Harby with ease.
Shield tanked Myrms I don't get though, if you want a shield tanked passive battlecruiser, just use a Drake.
Blasters lack damage projection, you need to get so close that the tracking just botches and the DPS is rather unimpressive for how close you need to get.
Tracking enhancers do help, but you're better off using ACs with Gyros, you can start dishing out DPS from further away, with a variable damage type and no cap consumption. Are you talking about a shield harby or an armor harby? Cause I don't think you can take out an armor harby. My Myrm can tank 443 DPS, while dealing 393 DPS (yeah, I know that's really low for a BC). But it can upkeep the tank for the entire duration of any 1v1. It has 40,843 EHP A typical Harbinger has no active tank, but 49,665 EHP and deals 648 DPS. (against my armor tankers strongest resists, while my ACs and drones deal damage against it's weakest) Even if you don't take the resists into account, the Harbinger's effective DPS drops to 205, Myrmidon dies in 199 seconds. Harbinger, however, dies in 127 seconds, Myrmidon wins. No...a myrm doesn't win. I said armor harbinger which has 75k ehp, booster, neut, and 1 mid slot to field whatever other ewar it wants besides the point. Edit: Didn't read Aboms post before I made this one. TLDR Aboms quite wrong, and/or he didn't eft a proper Harbi fit. Also I think the 65k ehp + medium armor rep harbi is more popular than the 75k ehp version. A proper harbinger should have about 75k buffer (not 50k, that's just sad) and deal about 650 dps with a medium neut; on the other hand, a good Myrm fit has point/web/scram and 2 plates with small autocannons, keeping the harbinger in range with ease and dealing about 450 dps itself and tanking well over 100k in buffer only. In which case the Myrm ought to win handily. Its not even viable to fit 2 plates on a proper armor pvp harbinger without gimping it, I need to see this double plated myrm you're talking about. Also a harbinger is faster than a plate myrm with 2 plates so how are you planning to keep the harbinger from abusing scorch?
I didn't say the harbinger should have 2 plates. You get 75k ehp with just one plate on a harbinger.
The myrmidon doesn't have too much trouble keeping the harbinger in range if it manages to land a scram, and if the harbinger is using scorch it's doing even less damage against the myrmidon's massive tank while the myrm is still droning just as well as it does at 0m range.
This isn't EFT warrioring; it's been done, and done a lot -- to great effect.
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On April 06 2011 23:35 Mumbleskates wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2011 22:44 pahndah wrote:On April 06 2011 20:00 Mumbleskates wrote:On April 06 2011 17:44 pahndah wrote:On April 06 2011 15:41 Altaen wrote:On April 06 2011 10:20 pahndah wrote:On April 05 2011 22:10 Thezzy wrote:
Tri-rep or double rep Myrm with ACs and tracking disruptors can be decent solo boats against a variety of targets, primarily turret boats.
If you trade an AC or two for neuts you'd solo something like a Harby with ease.
Shield tanked Myrms I don't get though, if you want a shield tanked passive battlecruiser, just use a Drake.
Blasters lack damage projection, you need to get so close that the tracking just botches and the DPS is rather unimpressive for how close you need to get.
Tracking enhancers do help, but you're better off using ACs with Gyros, you can start dishing out DPS from further away, with a variable damage type and no cap consumption. Are you talking about a shield harby or an armor harby? Cause I don't think you can take out an armor harby. My Myrm can tank 443 DPS, while dealing 393 DPS (yeah, I know that's really low for a BC). But it can upkeep the tank for the entire duration of any 1v1. It has 40,843 EHP A typical Harbinger has no active tank, but 49,665 EHP and deals 648 DPS. (against my armor tankers strongest resists, while my ACs and drones deal damage against it's weakest) Even if you don't take the resists into account, the Harbinger's effective DPS drops to 205, Myrmidon dies in 199 seconds. Harbinger, however, dies in 127 seconds, Myrmidon wins. No...a myrm doesn't win. I said armor harbinger which has 75k ehp, booster, neut, and 1 mid slot to field whatever other ewar it wants besides the point. Edit: Didn't read Aboms post before I made this one. TLDR Aboms quite wrong, and/or he didn't eft a proper Harbi fit. Also I think the 65k ehp + medium armor rep harbi is more popular than the 75k ehp version. A proper harbinger should have about 75k buffer (not 50k, that's just sad) and deal about 650 dps with a medium neut; on the other hand, a good Myrm fit has point/web/scram and 2 plates with small autocannons, keeping the harbinger in range with ease and dealing about 450 dps itself and tanking well over 100k in buffer only. In which case the Myrm ought to win handily. Its not even viable to fit 2 plates on a proper armor pvp harbinger without gimping it, I need to see this double plated myrm you're talking about. Also a harbinger is faster than a plate myrm with 2 plates so how are you planning to keep the harbinger from abusing scorch? I didn't say the harbinger should have 2 plates. You get 75k ehp with just one plate on a harbinger. The myrmidon doesn't have too much trouble keeping the harbinger in range if it manages to land a scram, and if the harbinger is using scorch it's doing even less damage against the myrmidon's massive tank while the myrm is still droning just as well as it does at 0m range. This isn't EFT warrioring; it's been done, and done a lot -- to great effect.
Did you read my response wrong? I didn't say the harbinger was suppose to have 2 plates, I was referring to your statement of sticking dual plates on a myrm and throwing out numbers that seem wild.I see a lot of flaws in your argument, one of which is your comment about scorch doing less damage than myrm drones...which is impossible unless the harbinger has 0 heat sinks. Much less so when if you're in scram range the harb is using INMF.
I'm willing to agree with Vil that a proper fit myrm vs harb is a relatively close fight, but your argument that a myrm wins flat out seems pretty wrong to me.
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Hyrule19190 Posts
Can a mod please rename this thread "EFT Warriors"?
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Netherlands19137 Posts
edit: nvm should have read the eve news.
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On April 06 2011 23:55 tofucake wrote:
Can a mod please rename this thread "EFT Warriors"?
That would be bad. It would just be me and Vil arguing to a stalemate.
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Lalalaland34501 Posts
On April 06 2011 23:58 Nyovne wrote:
edit: nvm should have read the eve news.
What kind of mod are you
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Hyrule19190 Posts
On April 07 2011 00:02 pahndah wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2011 23:55 tofucake wrote:
Can a mod please rename this thread "EFT Warriors"? That would be bad. It would just be me and Vil arguing to a stalemate.
So how would it be different?
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On April 06 2011 23:52 pahndah wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2011 23:35 Mumbleskates wrote:On April 06 2011 22:44 pahndah wrote:On April 06 2011 20:00 Mumbleskates wrote:On April 06 2011 17:44 pahndah wrote:On April 06 2011 15:41 Altaen wrote:On April 06 2011 10:20 pahndah wrote:On April 05 2011 22:10 Thezzy wrote:
Tri-rep or double rep Myrm with ACs and tracking disruptors can be decent solo boats against a variety of targets, primarily turret boats.
If you trade an AC or two for neuts you'd solo something like a Harby with ease.
Shield tanked Myrms I don't get though, if you want a shield tanked passive battlecruiser, just use a Drake.
Blasters lack damage projection, you need to get so close that the tracking just botches and the DPS is rather unimpressive for how close you need to get.
Tracking enhancers do help, but you're better off using ACs with Gyros, you can start dishing out DPS from further away, with a variable damage type and no cap consumption. Are you talking about a shield harby or an armor harby? Cause I don't think you can take out an armor harby. My Myrm can tank 443 DPS, while dealing 393 DPS (yeah, I know that's really low for a BC). But it can upkeep the tank for the entire duration of any 1v1. It has 40,843 EHP A typical Harbinger has no active tank, but 49,665 EHP and deals 648 DPS. (against my armor tankers strongest resists, while my ACs and drones deal damage against it's weakest) Even if you don't take the resists into account, the Harbinger's effective DPS drops to 205, Myrmidon dies in 199 seconds. Harbinger, however, dies in 127 seconds, Myrmidon wins. No...a myrm doesn't win. I said armor harbinger which has 75k ehp, booster, neut, and 1 mid slot to field whatever other ewar it wants besides the point. Edit: Didn't read Aboms post before I made this one. TLDR Aboms quite wrong, and/or he didn't eft a proper Harbi fit. Also I think the 65k ehp + medium armor rep harbi is more popular than the 75k ehp version. A proper harbinger should have about 75k buffer (not 50k, that's just sad) and deal about 650 dps with a medium neut; on the other hand, a good Myrm fit has point/web/scram and 2 plates with small autocannons, keeping the harbinger in range with ease and dealing about 450 dps itself and tanking well over 100k in buffer only. In which case the Myrm ought to win handily. Its not even viable to fit 2 plates on a proper armor pvp harbinger without gimping it, I need to see this double plated myrm you're talking about. Also a harbinger is faster than a plate myrm with 2 plates so how are you planning to keep the harbinger from abusing scorch? I didn't say the harbinger should have 2 plates. You get 75k ehp with just one plate on a harbinger. The myrmidon doesn't have too much trouble keeping the harbinger in range if it manages to land a scram, and if the harbinger is using scorch it's doing even less damage against the myrmidon's massive tank while the myrm is still droning just as well as it does at 0m range. This isn't EFT warrioring; it's been done, and done a lot -- to great effect. Did you read my response wrong? I didn't say the harbinger was suppose to have 2 plates, I was referring to your statement of sticking dual plates on a myrm and throwing out numbers that seem wild.I see a lot of flaws in your argument, one of which is your comment about scorch doing less damage than myrm drones...which is impossible unless the harbinger has 0 heat sinks. Much less so when if you're in scram range the harb is using INMF. I'm willing to agree with Vil that a proper fit myrm vs harb is a relatively close fight, but your argument that a myrm wins flat out seems pretty wrong to me.
On April 06 2011 23:52 pahndah wrote:
Its not even viable to fit 2 plates on a proper armor pvp harbinger without gimping it,.
You wrote that but i guess you wanted to say, which is the source of some confusion here
''its not even viable to fit 2 plates on a proper armor pvp myrm''
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Netherlands19137 Posts
On April 07 2011 00:03 Firebolt145 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2011 23:58 Nyovne wrote:
edit: nvm should have read the eve news. What kind of mod are you
The wrathful intollerant kind. (Is there any other?)
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On April 06 2011 23:52 pahndah wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2011 23:35 Mumbleskates wrote:On April 06 2011 22:44 pahndah wrote:On April 06 2011 20:00 Mumbleskates wrote:On April 06 2011 17:44 pahndah wrote:On April 06 2011 15:41 Altaen wrote:On April 06 2011 10:20 pahndah wrote:On April 05 2011 22:10 Thezzy wrote:
Tri-rep or double rep Myrm with ACs and tracking disruptors can be decent solo boats against a variety of targets, primarily turret boats.
If you trade an AC or two for neuts you'd solo something like a Harby with ease.
Shield tanked Myrms I don't get though, if you want a shield tanked passive battlecruiser, just use a Drake.
Blasters lack damage projection, you need to get so close that the tracking just botches and the DPS is rather unimpressive for how close you need to get.
Tracking enhancers do help, but you're better off using ACs with Gyros, you can start dishing out DPS from further away, with a variable damage type and no cap consumption. Are you talking about a shield harby or an armor harby? Cause I don't think you can take out an armor harby. My Myrm can tank 443 DPS, while dealing 393 DPS (yeah, I know that's really low for a BC). But it can upkeep the tank for the entire duration of any 1v1. It has 40,843 EHP A typical Harbinger has no active tank, but 49,665 EHP and deals 648 DPS. (against my armor tankers strongest resists, while my ACs and drones deal damage against it's weakest) Even if you don't take the resists into account, the Harbinger's effective DPS drops to 205, Myrmidon dies in 199 seconds. Harbinger, however, dies in 127 seconds, Myrmidon wins. No...a myrm doesn't win. I said armor harbinger which has 75k ehp, booster, neut, and 1 mid slot to field whatever other ewar it wants besides the point. Edit: Didn't read Aboms post before I made this one. TLDR Aboms quite wrong, and/or he didn't eft a proper Harbi fit. Also I think the 65k ehp + medium armor rep harbi is more popular than the 75k ehp version. A proper harbinger should have about 75k buffer (not 50k, that's just sad) and deal about 650 dps with a medium neut; on the other hand, a good Myrm fit has point/web/scram and 2 plates with small autocannons, keeping the harbinger in range with ease and dealing about 450 dps itself and tanking well over 100k in buffer only. In which case the Myrm ought to win handily. Its not even viable to fit 2 plates on a proper armor pvp harbinger without gimping it, I need to see this double plated myrm you're talking about. Also a harbinger is faster than a plate myrm with 2 plates so how are you planning to keep the harbinger from abusing scorch? I didn't say the harbinger should have 2 plates. You get 75k ehp with just one plate on a harbinger. The myrmidon doesn't have too much trouble keeping the harbinger in range if it manages to land a scram, and if the harbinger is using scorch it's doing even less damage against the myrmidon's massive tank while the myrm is still droning just as well as it does at 0m range. This isn't EFT warrioring; it's been done, and done a lot -- to great effect. Did you read my response wrong? I didn't say the harbinger was suppose to have 2 plates, I was referring to your statement of sticking dual plates on a myrm and throwing out numbers that seem wild.I see a lot of flaws in your argument, one of which is your comment about scorch doing less damage than myrm drones...which is impossible unless the harbinger has 0 heat sinks. Much less so when if you're in scram range the harb is using INMF. I'm willing to agree with Vil that a proper fit myrm vs harb is a relatively close fight, but your argument that a myrm wins flat out seems pretty wrong to me.
In evidence, you are the one who isn't reading my response. I read everything you wrote multiple times.
You did say harbingers with 2 plates can't be done without gimping them. That's perfectly true but not relevant to the discussion. If you meant that you can't do the same to the Myrmidon, then perhaps you need to read my post again and try making one in EFT, and you'll see what I mean.
I didn't say Scorch does less damage than the Myrm's drones. It does do less damage than multi/conflag, and doesn't kill the Myrm faster than the Myrmidon's drones will kill the Harbinger. In the end the Harb will either still be tackled and die, or will be forced to burn away and warp out to escape the Myrmidon.
Nor am I saying that Myrmidons win 'flat out' against Harbingers. Truth be told though, the Myrmidon is often better for 1v1 engagements like this, since it can go full tank in the lows with an excellent active bonus or a massive buffer without reducing its drone damage, but that doesn't mean that the Myrm will always win by any stretch of the imagination.
TL;DR Thezzy knows what he's talking about when he talks about flying Myrmidons, and also the 2plate buffer Myrm is a viable and powerful pvp ship that you shouldn't knock until you try.
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you obv never fought a (good) kiting ship in your myrm. harb can lock myrms drones while they're flying towards it, when they get there launch hammers while webbing a target drone, and kill it before the myrm can react. then the harbi just retreats drones, breaking the myrms locks on them immediately, and do it all over again. myrm can either quietly watch as all of his drones die, or retreat them without doing any damage. this is also a reason why i like the MAR + cap booster harbi.
when you've bled the myrm enough (ie he lost loads of cap boosters and drones) you can dive in for the kill while switching to conflag (or he'll just catch you eventually, cause hes a bit faster if he has no plates). no reload time on lasers ftw.
also just for tofu, this post is 100% eft free.
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On April 06 2011 22:56 TurpinOS wrote:
All fights in eve start on 0 so we should just take in mind eft numbers c/d ?
Of course not...but another advantage of the Myrm is the ability to fit a full flight of EC-600s in addition to it's damage flights, so scram equals range control, no scram equals easy GTFO.
Oh, and yes, double plated Myrms work beautifully, as do shield Myrms, but I'd definitely expect a Harbinger to kick the shit out of a shield Myrm, and I'd expect a double plated Myrm to fit a tracking disruptor to combat kiting Harbs. Harbinger does a ton of damage, or has a nice tank, but never both. Myrm pretty much always has an awesome tank, rarely has awesome damage, but makes up for it with versatility and resilience to EWAR (as drone DPS is not going to diminish under TDs jams or anything.).
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On April 07 2011 00:25 Mumbleskates wrote:
In the end the Harb will either still be tackled and die, or will be forced to burn away and warp out to escape the Myrmidon ... Nor am I saying that Myrmidons win 'flat out' against Harbingers.
Am i reading this correctly?
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one thing ill agree about is that depending on the circumstances harbi vs myrm can be a very shit fight, with both ships having ez gtfo abilities if the fight isnt going their way (that is if myrm is gay enough to fit ewar drones :>).
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Lalalaland34501 Posts
just get a falcon alt ezpz
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supercap alt, fuck falcons
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actually lets say nyx its very viable in numbers ( cos of the spider tank) but with my avatar i can lock with 2 sensor booster bs in 12 secs and cruisers in around 15 or so so this falcons die instantly (usually dd is directed towards logistics or bonus ships aka comamand ships ) but most of the times falcons cand decide the outcome of a fight, cos most fights are like 10-20 vs 10-20 ( big engaements such of 1k+ vs 1k+ falcons/logis are quite useless cos fc are calling targets on alphabetical order and doesnt matter if u have 20 logistics u wont be able to lock/rep fast enough cos of module delay that occurs with this numbers ). Alot of ppl are using jst drakes + scimis/basi or big numbers of stealth bombers supported by a few dictors with cloack. Most of the so called mercs use on most of their ships cloack i mean even on vagas and jst wait @ chokepoints to get easy kills ( see Noir mercs).
Ps. Most ppl use drakes cos of less skill to fly it effectively ( t2 guns for lets say harb or hurricane taking a bit longer) cos of the medium sized ranged battles that usually occurs, harb and hurricane especially needing moret time to be in optimal or jst hitting with crappier dmg (ranged ammo)
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wa de shit just hapened to dis topic
also, nice ninja edit by ccp ''coming back at 15:00 ----------- NOT ------------------- coming back at 18:00''
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Lalalaland34501 Posts
i have 2 low slots on a crane, shall i fit 2 wcs or 2 nanos? already have 2x low friction nozzle joints rigs as well
HMM choices choices
(partly serious btw, i'm scared of instalocking frigs)
[Crane, Crane]
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
Photon Scattering Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Medium Low Friction Nozzle Joints I
Medium Low Friction Nozzle Joints I
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edit: damn right i'm efting a transport ship, I'M BORED
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EPT
