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Rather than try and post this in corp chat, i'm just gonna put it here because at least kwark, caelum, and the other "vets" will read it.
The problem with noobs suiciding their ships isn't that they're stupid. They're just inexperienced and make mistakes. Everyone makes mistakes. The argument that is currently going on between mommy and daddy (caelum and kwark) about killing an ishkur with drones is pointless. It doesn't matter what didn't or couldn't happen or who did what. What's going to make the hatchery a powerhouse isn't whether or not an ishkur's tank can be broken by drones. What matters is that we as a team learn from our mistakes.
Noobs will always make noob moves. They will freeze up, suicide their ships, and do all manner of stupid things.I don't remmeber how the saying goes but in eve the one thing you can count on most of the time is that your opponent is an idiot. Punishing the newbies in the corp with fines won't teach them what to do, only what not to do. And that will push them to be timid and not take the risk of asking to be taught. Rather than yell at them to read this or do that after they ask, we should set up a system where they know what to read and what to do BEFORE they join corp.
Obviously just posting it on the forum OP is not working too well. So I propose that each new member, after the background check but before being accepted, should be given a list of things to read/do upon entering the hatchery; such as always checking wt status when logging on, checking local when entering low/nullsec, etc. Before people are allowed to go on roams/fleet ops they should ahve proper knowledge of eve terminology, pvp basics, fitting basics, overview settings, and how to get on TS, as well as how to complete any special role they have in fleet (i.e. scout, ewar, etc.). The OP is a good place to have everything- we just need to make sure people don't see it and say tl;dr. They need to actually read it and understand it.
Mentors: you are the most important link in this chain. If you don't do a good job raising your mentee it will show. Your job is not just to get a free month but to make sure that your mentee is basically prepared for EVE. You are the frontline.
I want to start a dialog on how to improve the corp in general. One thing especially that comes to mind is that right now the hatchery doesn't have any real direction, and i think that with a somewhat specific goal in mind we can truly become a powerful corp.
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Russian Federation3631 Posts
On January 08 2011 10:50 pahndah wrote:
WTF is an omen. Its either navy issue or its not.
There are some people that use the non-navy version very effectively.
Rare, but they exist.
Punishing the newbies in the corp with fines won't teach them what to do, only what not to do.
A corp member that can reliably be counted upon not to do stupid shit 70% of the time is an asset to be valued. Incidentally, there's a pretty direct correlation between how much internal criticism there is over ship losses and the quality of the corp. The only way to hammer newbies into semi-competent pilots, if they aren't willing to do the theorycraft/basic fitting technique reading, is to constantly insult them when they inevitably lose shitfit ships.
Hatchery seems pretty chill, seeing as there are no 20-comment long threadnaughts in your killboards about how terrible X fit is.
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On January 08 2011 10:50 pahndah wrote:
WTF is an omen. Its either navy issue or its not.
It's like a maller but 1000x shittier.
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On January 08 2011 11:00 kef wrote:
Rather than try and post this in corp chat, i'm just gonna put it here because at least kwark, caelum, and the other "vets" will read it.
The problem with noobs suiciding their ships isn't that they're stupid. They're just inexperienced and make mistakes. Everyone makes mistakes. The argument that is currently going on between mommy and daddy (caelum and kwark) about killing an ishkur with drones is pointless. It doesn't matter what didn't or couldn't happen or who did what. What's going to make the hatchery a powerhouse isn't whether or not an ishkur's tank can be broken by drones. What matters is that we as a team learn from our mistakes.
Noobs will always make noob moves. They will freeze up, suicide their ships, and do all manner of stupid things.I don't remmeber how the saying goes but in eve the one thing you can count on most of the time is that your opponent is an idiot. Punishing the newbies in the corp with fines won't teach them what to do, only what not to do. And that will push them to be timid and not take the risk of asking to be taught. Rather than yell at them to read this or do that after they ask, we should set up a system where they know what to read and what to do BEFORE they join corp.
Obviously just posting it on the forum OP is not working too well. So I propose that each new member, after the background check but before being accepted, should be given a list of things to read/do upon entering the hatchery; such as always checking wt status when logging on, checking local when entering low/nullsec, etc. Before people are allowed to go on roams/fleet ops they should ahve proper knowledge of eve terminology, pvp basics, fitting basics, overview settings, and how to get on TS, as well as how to complete any special role they have in fleet (i.e. scout, ewar, etc.). The OP is a good place to have everything- we just need to make sure people don't see it and say tl;dr. They need to actually read it and understand it.
Mentors: you are the most important link in this chain. If you don't do a good job raising your mentee it will show. Your job is not just to get a free month but to make sure that your mentee is basically prepared for EVE. You are the frontline.
I want to start a dialog on how to improve the corp in general. One thing especially that comes to mind is that right now the hatchery doesn't have any real direction, and i think that with a somewhat specific goal in mind we can truly become a powerful corp.
Holy bitter post, Batman.
Your problem is that your "mentors," don't have much experience themselves.
When all your oldguard disappears to jew in WHs, kill shit in Syndi, or lose titans in Venal, what do you expect?
I nominate Kizu to return to clean things up.
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Actually, we do go through that with all the trialees, but we are not in a giant war at the moment, so its not like there is abundant practice of the theory's, at least the ones that require more than looking in local/asking in corp. So, while I think the omen shouldn't of been popped, the pilot is only a week old and never had the chance to practice any of the gate shenanigans. So, when the opportunity arose, he freaked out, which only is overcame by experience.
In fact, my first trialee has already been roaming around low sec hungrily looking for things to kill in his rifter. I am sure a good portion of that is his good initiative and just being smart overall.
But, I am pretty sure we have this fixed right now in the next week though : D
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FOn January 08 2011 13:48 s_side wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2011 11:00 kef wrote:
Rather than try and post this in corp chat, i'm just gonna put it here because at least kwark, caelum, and the other "vets" will read it.
The problem with noobs suiciding their ships isn't that they're stupid. They're just inexperienced and make mistakes. Everyone makes mistakes. The argument that is currently going on between mommy and daddy (caelum and kwark) about killing an ishkur with drones is pointless. It doesn't matter what didn't or couldn't happen or who did what. What's going to make the hatchery a powerhouse isn't whether or not an ishkur's tank can be broken by drones. What matters is that we as a team learn from our mistakes.
Noobs will always make noob moves. They will freeze up, suicide their ships, and do all manner of stupid things.I don't remmeber how the saying goes but in eve the one thing you can count on most of the time is that your opponent is an idiot. Punishing the newbies in the corp with fines won't teach them what to do, only what not to do. And that will push them to be timid and not take the risk of asking to be taught. Rather than yell at them to read this or do that after they ask, we should set up a system where they know what to read and what to do BEFORE they join corp.
Obviously just posting it on the forum OP is not working too well. So I propose that each new member, after the background check but before being accepted, should be given a list of things to read/do upon entering the hatchery; such as always checking wt status when logging on, checking local when entering low/nullsec, etc. Before people are allowed to go on roams/fleet ops they should ahve proper knowledge of eve terminology, pvp basics, fitting basics, overview settings, and how to get on TS, as well as how to complete any special role they have in fleet (i.e. scout, ewar, etc.). The OP is a good place to have everything- we just need to make sure people don't see it and say tl;dr. They need to actually read it and understand it.
Mentors: you are the most important link in this chain. If you don't do a good job raising your mentee it will show. Your job is not just to get a free month but to make sure that your mentee is basically prepared for EVE. You are the frontline.
I want to start a dialog on how to improve the corp in general. One thing especially that comes to mind is that right now the hatchery doesn't have any real direction, and i think that with a somewhat specific goal in mind we can truly become a powerful corp. Holy bitter post, Batman. Your problem is that your "mentors," don't have much experience themselves. When all your oldguard disappears to jew in WHs, kill shit in Syndi, or lose titans in Venal, what do you expect? I nominate Kizu to return to clean things up.
Lol go lose more titans bro :D.
No really the only issue is the bit of a lack of direction and a shit war. The new people don't haber the same trial by fire the last few batches have had.
I'm waiting for my buddy to finish his mindlink skills after which you may expect massive maelstrom rape
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The new people don't haber the same trial by fire the last few batches have had.
My second day playing, I was taken along on a roam with serg fc'ing. He told me to jump through and tackle a wolf. I did and was instantly melted.
Learn you right quick
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Tbh, you guys should run in Maller hordes with some guardians. It wouldn't take very long to get the bulk of your newblets into t2 tanked ones. The main issue would be getting enough guardian pilots, but since it's literally the best ship ever, people shouldn't whine about training for it.
What you'd end up with essentially, is an armor hac JV squad. You get 60% of Armor HAC capability for a tenth of the cost and an even smaller fraction of the required skillpoints. Have your FC probe warpins onto WT Battleships, pop a bubble, put on your burners and hardeners and orbit an anchor. For the non-logi pilots, it's a simple concept. Orbit, shoot primaries and, if primaried, overload your hardeners and drop your pill.
Not enough guardians? No problem. Use RRs on your Mallers and bring RRing exquerors for dedicated logi.
Start training this shit (shouldn't take people long) and I'll come and guest FC. It'll be tight. I'm even training for a Damnation so I can get free ones from alliance and come get them blown up leading you gentlemen.
TLDR: Train for Mallers with t2 tanks and preferably t2 med pulses and Exquerors with t2 tanks and remote reps. Profit.
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On January 08 2011 15:53 Belgo wrote:Show nested quote +The new people don't haber the same trial by fire the last few batches have had. My second day playing, I was taken along on a roam with serg fc'ing. He told me to jump through and tackle a wolf. I did and was instantly melted. Learn you right quick
Lol tell serg he's a dick for making arifter attack a much better version of it.
o
Also drop your pill? Next on thee agenda a 300 mil isk skill. Although setting up some armor fleets sounds good. Hyey can fly a guardian too!
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United States44205 Posts
On January 08 2011 16:04 s_side wrote:
Tbh, you guys should run in Maller hordes with some guardians. It wouldn't take very long to get the bulk of your newblets into t2 tanked ones. The main issue would be getting enough guardian pilots, but since it's literally the best ship ever, people shouldn't whine about training for it.
What you'd end up with essentially, is an armor hac JV squad. You get 60% of Armor HAC capability for a tenth of the cost and an even smaller fraction of the required skillpoints. Have your FC probe warpins onto WT Battleships, pop a bubble, put on your burners and hardeners and orbit an anchor. For the non-logi pilots, it's a simple concept. Orbit, shoot primaries and, if primaried, overload your hardeners and drop your pill.
Not enough guardians? No problem. Use RRs on your Mallers and bring RRing exquerors for dedicated logi.
Start training this shit (shouldn't take people long) and I'll come and guest FC. It'll be tight. I'm even training for a Damnation so I can get free ones from alliance and come get them blown up leading you gentlemen.
TLDR: Train for Mallers with t2 tanks and preferably t2 med pulses and Exquerors with t2 tanks and remote reps. Profit.
No thanks.
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Or don't ever try anything new and keep flying shield BC. vOv
Sorry for suggesting a fun and cheap fleet that would be hilarious to kill people with.
Back to business as usual.
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On January 08 2011 16:05 Jayme wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2011 15:53 Belgo wrote:The new people don't haber the same trial by fire the last few batches have had. My second day playing, I was taken along on a roam with serg fc'ing. He told me to jump through and tackle a wolf. I did and was instantly melted. Learn you right quick Lol tell serg he's a dick for making arifter attack a much better version of it. o Also drop your pill? Next on thee agenda a 300 mil isk skill. Although setting up some armor fleets sounds good. Hyey can fly a guardian too!
What 300m skill? You need Biology and Science for boosters. With that kind of fleet you'd want to use X-instincts.
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United States44205 Posts
On January 08 2011 16:09 s_side wrote:
Or don't ever try anything new and keep flying shield BC. vOv
Sorry for suggesting a fun and cheap fleet that would be hilarious to kill people with.
Back to business as usual.
We currently lack SP in Amarr cruisers, amarr weapons, armour tanks, amarr logistics and remote armour rep. What you are suggesting is that we overhaul the entire corp so you can do a gimmick. We get the most out of our low SP pilots because we have a narrow focus of pvp which we all aim for. Think before you say these things, you're asking every pilot in corp to drop about 500k SP on this when most are around the 2-3m SP mark. And as for the guardians, lol. Pop a bubble? Really?
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On January 08 2011 16:13 s_side wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2011 16:05 Jayme wrote:On January 08 2011 15:53 Belgo wrote:The new people don't haber the same trial by fire the last few batches have had. My second day playing, I was taken along on a roam with serg fc'ing. He told me to jump through and tackle a wolf. I did and was instantly melted. Learn you right quick Lol tell serg he's a dick for making arifter attack a much better version of it. o Also drop your pill? Next on thee agenda a 300 mil isk skill. Although setting up some armor fleets sounds good. Hyey can fly a guardian too! What 300m skill? You need Biology and Science for boosters. With that kind of fleet you'd want to use X-instincts.
Err nanite control
Also while I generally agree with you kwark that armor fleet is as much of agimmick as a nano fleet
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United States44205 Posts
Btw tonight we killed a drake, myrm and lach and lost two canes and a rifter. We also got on the km of a vaga but shit hit the fan before we finished it and the cyna cleaned it up. All told it 238m kills (+250m fail vaga) and 93m losses. We had a pretty legit fleet up too. 4 canes, claymore, scimitar, rupture, 2 rifters and a blackbird.
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Think BIG Kwark! This could be glorious!
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On January 08 2011 16:17 Jayme wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2011 16:13 s_side wrote:On January 08 2011 16:05 Jayme wrote:On January 08 2011 15:53 Belgo wrote:The new people don't haber the same trial by fire the last few batches have had. My second day playing, I was taken along on a roam with serg fc'ing. He told me to jump through and tackle a wolf. I did and was instantly melted. Learn you right quick Lol tell serg he's a dick for making arifter attack a much better version of it. o Also drop your pill? Next on thee agenda a 300 mil isk skill. Although setting up some armor fleets sounds good. Hyey can fly a guardian too! What 300m skill? You need Biology and Science for boosters. With that kind of fleet you'd want to use X-instincts. Err nanite control
Meh, nanite control isn't necessary. I don't even know if Gordon has it trained lol.
EDIT: And isn't it like 1m from NPCs anyways?
EDIT 2: Am I being trolled?
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United States44205 Posts
On January 08 2011 16:17 Jayme wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2011 16:13 s_side wrote:On January 08 2011 16:05 Jayme wrote:On January 08 2011 15:53 Belgo wrote:The new people don't haber the same trial by fire the last few batches have had. My second day playing, I was taken along on a roam with serg fc'ing. He told me to jump through and tackle a wolf. I did and was instantly melted. Learn you right quick Lol tell serg he's a dick for making arifter attack a much better version of it. o Also drop your pill? Next on thee agenda a 300 mil isk skill. Although setting up some armor fleets sounds good. Hyey can fly a guardian too! What 300m skill? You need Biology and Science for boosters. With that kind of fleet you'd want to use X-instincts. Err nanite control Also while I generally agree with you kwark that armor fleet is as much of agimmick as a nano fleet
My point is that you pick your gimmick and stick with it. It's not just "all train mallers np". It simply doesn't work that way.
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On January 08 2011 16:09 s_side wrote:
Or don't ever try anything new and keep flying shield BC. vOv
Sorry for suggesting a fun and cheap fleet that would be hilarious to kill people with.
Back to business as usual.
We dont mind trying new things, but we dont have a single Amarr pilots, and people are struggling to even get to t2 med guns, we wont go all like ''OKAY EVERYONE CROSS TRAIN AMARR NOW''
(we do have like 3 guardian pilots though)
Anyways, on a different matter.
We decided to go on a roam tonight, Kwark quickly rejected my idea of fitting up the worst ship we could technically think of and go roam with that and said that we shall go out with a proper fleet.
We formed up with : Claymore, Scimmy, 4x canes, Blackbird, Rupture, Rifter --- Pretty nice gang for the Hatchuuuury.
We decided to head for Bosena, there was a lot of people in local so we figured we might get something going.
Serg quickly found a 3 some at a belt, seems like a rupture, vaga and cyna were fighting each other, none affiliated.
We decided to jump in and warp to Serg, cause you know, a threesome is nice, but a gangbang is even better.
The cyna was already burning out when we landed and the Vaga quickly took some distance, (we tried to point but failed, etc. etc.). Quickly, local spiked and shits started warping on the poor little rupture. (His gang). (Fun note, the cynabal finished up the vaga on the side)
Now, to put you in context, Kwark asked me to FC, and since its Friday night and I had a long week I decided to take a couple of drinks with my dinner, I also did not have a proper overview set up and we warped right into some Asteroids. So, I kinda scrambled an align point, but I was mostly just trying to get my ship unstucked from the fucking asteroids.
Anyways, we finally managed to get a little bit of distance, and started doing our thing.
They had :
Claymore
Myrm x2
Drake x4 or X3
Lachesis
Rook
So, the fight starts, Lachesis lands pretty much on 0 on us, we dont really know what happened, but we quickly primary it cause, ya know, melts in a second.
Our rifter gets popped, and from that point we start to have a bit of a problem, they have the bigger gang, we have a logi, but the problem is that we dont actually have any reliable tackle (no rapier tonight) so they can freely move in and out. What they did was rotate both myrm and the claymore to dip in for points while the drakes just shoot their missiles from the back and the rook jams us.
We also have a BB on our side doing a very good job, but, lets face it, a Rook can jam more then a BB can. Their rook focuses on jamming our Canes, which really reduces our incoming DPS (we have some real nice support but we just cant kill them.
Fight goes on with a lot of nanoing from both parties, our blackbird has to warp for some reason (I really couldnt be bothered with the reason at that point), and warps to the sun where theres a pirate ship waiting for him, he manages to burn out of the point and dock in structure, so were are now lacking EWAR.
Fight goes on, one of our cane gets webbed and scrammed, incoming DPS is too high for the Scimmy and were just getting jammed hard.
We manage to snag a Myrm kill not too late after since the rook misses some cycle, fight goes on and its pretty much a big stall so since I know our BB is now coming back I call the disengage as I ask the BB to make sure everyone gets out alive.
Unfortunately, one of our canes runs out of cap right before for another MWD pulse and gets tackled, BB has landed but hes not able to jam both a myrm and a claymore so the cane goes down.
All-in all a pretty good fight, we had a new player in a rupture (or pretty new) and a new player in the rifter so it was clearly a good learning for them, for the others it was a good drill. We come out with the Lachesis + Myrm kill, against a Cane + Cane + Rifter loss, well call it a win. (And we also got on the vaga KM, http://teamliquid.killmail.org/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=8476405, best fit I have ever seen). Terrible FCing by me though since I didnt know what was going on for half of the fight (no overview + alcohol doesnt work too well, I didnt even know the amount of canes I had on the field).
We just went back to emol through lowsec after that since some of us had too low sec status and snagged a drake on the way.
Fun night.
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On January 08 2011 16:20 s_side wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2011 16:17 Jayme wrote:On January 08 2011 16:13 s_side wrote:On January 08 2011 16:05 Jayme wrote:On January 08 2011 15:53 Belgo wrote:The new people don't haber the same trial by fire the last few batches have had. My second day playing, I was taken along on a roam with serg fc'ing. He told me to jump through and tackle a wolf. I did and was instantly melted. Learn you right quick Lol tell serg he's a dick for making arifter attack a much better version of it. o Also drop your pill? Next on thee agenda a 300 mil isk skill. Although setting up some armor fleets sounds good. Hyey can fly a guardian too! What 300m skill? You need Biology and Science for boosters. With that kind of fleet you'd want to use X-instincts. Err nanite control Meh, nanite control isn't necessary. I don't even know if Gordon has it trained lol. EDIT: And isn't it like 1m from NPCs anyways? EDIT 2: Am I being trolled?
a far as I'm aware the only way to get it is through null exploration....that's how I got mine. Let never know if that's changed because I just found a way to make a ton of additional isk.
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EPT
