ffs, every fucking thing I trained for gets the nerfbat.
first was my nano drake
then was my talos
dem tracking enhacers
my links!
my rapid lights!
nooooooo!!!!!!!!!!
my machariel (im still training for it)
I won't train for lasers, they might get fucked

Galdo

United States338 Posts

November 16 2013 02:06 GMT

#34322

Train for capital torps.

Will totally be useful in the future.

0m3ga

Serbia322 Posts

November 16 2013 02:17 GMT

#34323

On November 16 2013 11:06 Galdo wrote:
Train for capital torps.

Will totally be useful in the future.

Will they have 40s reload time?

hehehehe

DefMatrixUltra

Canada1992 Posts

November 16 2013 02:58 GMT

#34324

On November 16 2013 10:31 419 wrote:
nah, heretic getting LML bonus will be swag as shit

All indications point to LMLs getting the next nerfbat, even according to Kil2.

419

Russian Federation3631 Posts

November 16 2013 03:09 GMT

#34325

probably. anything that projects past scram range is overpowered.

fwiw, I personally think that the pre-tier 3 drake and the cruiser era caracal were the "glue" of the BC / cruiser heavy meta of their times, in that the ability of those ships to reliably kill tackle, and particularly, having their applied dps increase instead of converge to zero at point-blank range made it safe to run recon/logi-less nanogangs*.

would have to do a bit more research but all this points to a dessy/AF-heavy direction for nano gangs in the future. I know for sure turn left is running heretics, and LML hawk/talwar - scythe already looks like a very strong comp, even more so now that their most reliable counter (RLMLs) will be less used (not convinced it'll be strictly worse, as massed RLML fire could be problematic, though that's for blobbing people and not PPPvPPPPPPPPPPP).

tl;dr the solution to the "no good t1 cruiser" problem may well be "don't fly cruisers"

I might be overreacting a bit though.

As I said before, eve is a simple game to the simple-minded.

*these properties - projection AND application spike within web range - are so good - maybe too good? Had the RLML been flat nerfed by 15% dps wise I would still fly caracals, and I would still think they were the strongest of the cruiser line by far.

jopirg

United States81 Posts

November 16 2013 03:56 GMT

#34326

On November 16 2013 10:40 0m3ga wrote:
ffs, every fucking thing I trained for gets the nerfbat.
first was my nano drake
then was my talos
dem tracking enhacers
my links!
my rapid lights!
nooooooo!!!!!!!!!!
my machariel (im still training for it)
I won't train for lasers, they might get fucked

Tell me about it.

I start playing the game and it's all about winmatar, so I train projectiles.
Suddenly it's failmatar, and I'm told to train anything but them. “alright, I'll train drones and hybrids for that sweet vexor”
That's when I hear TL has a corp and is kicking ass in EVE. “No way, I love TL!” So I join up and learn light missiles are the way to go. “no problem, I can train that.”
Now RLML are shit and WTF don't you have lasers trained?

God damn it I'm trying.

DefMatrixUltra

Canada1992 Posts

November 16 2013 04:11 GMT

#34327

On November 16 2013 12:09 419 wrote:
probably. anything that projects past scram range is overpowered.

fwiw, I personally think that the pre-tier 3 drake and the cruiser era caracal were the "glue" of the BC / cruiser heavy meta of their times, in that the ability of those ships to reliably kill tackle, and particularly, having their applied dps increase instead of converge to zero at point-blank range made it safe to run recon/logi-less nanogangs*.

would have to do a bit more research but all this points to a dessy/AF-heavy direction for nano gangs in the future. I know for sure turn left is running heretics, and LML hawk/talwar - scythe already looks like a very strong comp, even more so now that their most reliable counter (RLMLs) will be less used (not convinced it'll be strictly worse, as massed RLML fire could be problematic, though that's for blobbing people and not PPPvPPPPPPPPPPP).

tl;dr the solution to the "no good t1 cruiser" problem may well be "don't fly cruisers"

I might be overreacting a bit though.

As I said before, eve is a simple game to the simple-minded.

*these properties - projection AND application spike within web range - are so good - maybe too good? Had the RLML been flat nerfed by 15% dps wise I would still fly caracals, and I would still think they were the strongest of the cruiser line by far.

Massed anything "works" so I don't think bRLMs are particularly effective massed any more than e.g. stealth bombers are.

AFs and basic destroyers start to look very strong when RLMs disappear from PVP. If LMLs go, there will be no go-to weapon against frigates except mass webs and lasers.

419

Russian Federation3631 Posts

November 16 2013 04:25 GMT

#34328

talwar is essentially the caracal without tank (well - tank / web / point, pick two). it does have a 75% MWD sig reduction bonus which is pretty substantial. At least my LM spec V won't be completely useless ~

but again, high chance of nerfbat in next iteration

Ramiel

United States1220 Posts

November 16 2013 05:36 GMT

#34329

For the time being, its going to be:

hawks
Rail Harpys
Talwars
Heritics
Fly Catcher

With support.

Usable cruisers are:

Exeq Navy (rails)
Thorax (Rails)
Omen (Pulse)
Nomen (Pulse)
Aug Navy (Pulse)
Diemos (Rail)
Ishtar
Cerb (with long web support + HAMs)

As per usual:

All BC's either lack projection or speed, to keep up in the meta.

Ramiel

United States1220 Posts

November 16 2013 05:37 GMT

#34330

Also I am looking to get into minmitar FW, anyone have a corp that I can join?

Viceorvirtue

United States273 Posts

November 16 2013 06:52 GMT

#34331

Don't forget about the hyena. They will have 40k or something webs and suddenly it doesn't look like the caracal or cerb will really be viable enough to show up consistantly with rlms. With 10mn ab fits able to ignore most turrets the only 'danger' is the frontloaded rlms but those can be easily worked around and if they try to stagger them then they likely won't be able to break through mse+harmonizer with a 10mn ab running.

This basically gives you free webs that are difficult to remove from the field and should be more than enough to allow pulse and rail ships to dominate the field. You can still leave from any intys and they might allow you to safely use oracles for when you don't have ishtars available.

Reborn8u

United States1761 Posts

November 16 2013 07:30 GMT

#34332

On November 16 2013 15:52 Viceorvirtue wrote:
Don't forget about the hyena. They will have 40k or something webs and suddenly it doesn't look like the caracal or cerb will really be viable enough to show up consistantly with rlms. With 10mn ab fits able to ignore most turrets the only 'danger' is the frontloaded rlms but those can be easily worked around and if they try to stagger them then they likely won't be able to break through mse+harmonizer with a 10mn ab running.

This basically gives you free webs that are difficult to remove from the field and should be more than enough to allow pulse and rail ships to dominate the field. You can still leave from any intys and they might allow you to safely use oracles for when you don't have ishtars available.

If you are in a hyena and you see a rlm caracal, warp off, warp back, he's now reloading for 40 seconds, web him, then he dies before he can shoot again XD

Impervious

Canada4173 Posts

November 16 2013 12:42 GMT

#34333

On November 16 2013 12:09 419 wrote:
*these properties - projection AND application spike within web range - are so good - maybe too good? Had the RLML been flat nerfed by 15% dps wise I would still fly caracals, and I would still think they were the strongest of the cruiser line by far.

It's a workhorse. It's reliable and has exactly what you want in a solo and small-gang ship for kiting. It can pick and choose exactly the right kinds of damage for the situation and it applies it very well against every target, it can fit a substantial tank and still have both a point and defensive web, it is relatively fast and agile, it projects damage far, it is pretty resilient vs ewar, etc. 15% less damage would suck, yes, but it still has everything else you want out of a solo and small-gang kiting ship, which is why I know I'd still be using it as well. Damage isn't the only thing you look for in a ship.....

I can definitely see uses from having the damage more front-loaded (warp in, kill tackle, warp off), but you lose out on the ability to be reliable at providing dps, and you lose out on the ability to swap ammo in fights. It substantially hurts it's ability in pvppp or pppvppppppppp situations where you could concieveably stay on field a lot longer than 50 seconds at a time. It's an interesting mechanic, but it's poorly implemented.