EPTEVE Corporation - Page 148
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Inzek
Chile802 Posts
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s_side
United States700 Posts
On September 26 2010 12:35 SWPIGWANG wrote: Electronics warfare modules takes very little isk and skill, while have massive effects. Tackle: You can make the enemy unable to make strategic moves (warp) as well as moving at 50% speed with one web. This means it is pretty much stuck until he kills you (which can take a while if you do it right) as has been said. Electronics Counter Measures: spend two month of focused training and you can disable just about any unprepared opponent ship for >70% of the time. In one month you'd be disabling for 50% of the time. In they time they can not shoot, support allies or do much other then defend. The ship to do this also costs only under 10m with all fittings. (which a vet making 40m per hour can probably donate if with good cause) Tracking Disruptors: Spend a week training. You opponent's guns now lose 40~60% of their range. This is very bad for your opponent if your team is now too far away to hit. Note that those effects, while powerful, is not significantly improved by having a ton of skill points, unlike damage output (which takes the most training time). Any newbie can fly a Ewar boat and annoy the HELL out of most opponents. ------------------- With exception of some supercapital flying fleets that involves ships costing some 400 times of a battlecruiser, most engagements in eve is won by cohesive fleets that puts the most guys into battle. Battles have been won by throwing 400 newbies into the grinder after all.... ECM is relatively ineffective in bigger gangs thanks to the range nerf and the squishyness of ewar boats. Furthermore, the only Ewar setups that are going to be effective are going to be relatively difficult to fit and fly (SP wise). A horde of idiots in BBs isn't going to acheive anything. To fight real gangs with huge reps, you need falcons/rooks/scorpions (in other words, ships that can either maintain decent range like falcons, or ships that you can tank a bit like scorpions) to jam the piss out of your enemy's logi. You can probably use blot out the sun tactics with low sec idiots, but against a competent opponent with decent logi pilots, you're going to get your face raped even with odds well in your favor. Against ahacs, for example, it takes almost 3 to 1 numbers to beat a well run/fit gang with drake/scimi blob and that's considered the ~counter~ these days. For the Hatchery's intents and purposes, I'd say the fastest way to be effective against corps with more assets/higher sp than you is to get as many guys in scimis as possible and have those who can't fly scimis in gank BCs. The most important thing is having as many logi pilots as possible, though. With 8 logis in a 25 man gang, I've had hilarious fights against scrubs with 80 man fleets who can't break the logi tank. Logi 5 pilots who know what they're doing are invaluable. | ||
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Dacendoran
United States825 Posts
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TurpinOS
Canada1223 Posts
Appart from the skills that are listed on the first page (mechanic 3 - survey 3 - salvaging 1), you will need to get the skill ''Targeting'' and level it at least to 2. You will then need to get into a destroyer (requires ''Destroyers'' level 1) Amarr : Coercer Caldari : Cormorant Gallente : Catalyst Minmatar : Thrasher You will need to fit it with - 4x Small Tractor Beam I (they are a bit expensive for newer players, ask your mentor to give you the necessary isk) - 4x Salvager I - 1mn Afterburner The rest of the slots you will with what ever you want, I would personnally suggest : - Expanded Cargohold I - Cap Recharger I - Capacitor Power Relay I Fit as many as you want/can in mid/low slots I personnally love having at least 2x expanded cargo. and the rest in Cap. You can also fit rigs (salvage tackle I) once you start getting some money, if you salvage A LOT, i would recommend them, but if not its really not necessary Once that is done, you will kindly ask if anyone is running level 4s, because level 3 and under are not worth to salvage. If someone is indeed running level 4s and has room for a salvager, he will link you the system he is in. Once you are in the same system, invite said person to form a fleet (or ask him to fleet you). You will then use the ''warp to fleet member'' option'' and ''leave fleet'' during warp. Once you arrive at the destination, you will ''add bookmark'' under the Peoples and Places tab. That way if anything happens, you can warp back to the location and keep on salvaging. Now, you will need to pay attention while you are salvaging, if you ever get attacked (or even locked) by a NPC, you will have to warp out immediately and then come back. The guy you are following might also inform you that there will be a respawn, or to warp out for a certain reason. If he does so, warp out, and warp back in when he tells you he has all the aggro. Now on to the main topic itself : How does salvaging work ?? A lot of people do it in different ways, and after a couple of time you will find your own way of doing it. A general guideline though is to use the Afterburner to close the distance between wrecks, you will then lock 4 targets and put a Tractor beam on everyone of them. You will then proceed to loot the wrecks when they are close to you (Open Cargo) and transfer the valuable items/items you feel like keeping. You are free to keep/sell the items, but donations to the corp hangars are always welcome since this is the one of the best way to refill it. Once the wrecks have been looted, you will use your ''Salvager 1'' to salvage the wrecks. Rinse and Repeat Now for the salvage parts. You should always try to sell them at a major trade hub (Rens is the closest trade hub to our main hangar). If the price you are given for your salvage is low (under regional average), you will need to put up a sell order, which is made through clicking on ''advanced'' and putting the price that you want to sell them at. Try to keep the salvage parts that are not worth much money and contract them to ViceorVirtue since he is able to make expensive items with these pieces. Have fun getting rich. | ||
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pahndah
1193 Posts
You can also do this with an interceptor or a rifter fitted with a prototype cloaking device too, but it'll require you to have good off gate bookmarks. | ||
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Arhkangel
Argentina769 Posts
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SWPIGWANG
Canada482 Posts
On September 28 2010 15:15 s_side wrote: ECM is relatively ineffective in bigger gangs thanks to the range nerf and the squishyness of ewar boats. Furthermore, the only Ewar setups that are going to be effective are going to be relatively difficult to fit and fly (SP wise). A horde of idiots in BBs isn't going to acheive anything......The most important thing is having as many logi pilots as possible, though. With 8 logis in a 25 man gang, I've had hilarious fights against scrubs with 80 man fleets who can't break the logi tank. Logi 5 pilots who know what they're doing are invaluable. Might as well say: train an army of Nyx Alts just in case PL decides to drop 20 Aeons on your grid. After all a super is invaluable and can rape any gang if they don't batphone a counter and you can just log before that happens. >.> Doesn't mean it is a good idea. Look, just to get into a Logi or have all T2 fits on that BC is a few month worth of training, and quite a few more to get it perfected. A Blackbird isn't exactly a powerful ship, but for something under 10m to fit and less than a month to all level IV on relevant skills, it is as good as it gets for someone that wants to jump in the action fast. Sure it will have trouble breaking ECCM-ed Logi chains, but it can definitely disrupt enemy plans and maybe take an BC or three out of the fight until it dies, where few other 10m ships can do effectively. Besides, a level IV scorp is only a few days away from a BB. (though probably too slow to keep with with shield BC gangs) I think the most logical solution against an ahac gang is to BURN AWAY AND IGNORE THEM. Shield BC with MWD have no reason to engage without "I win" odds unless you are in a POS/Cap fight that you can't just leave the field or just got bubbled silly. | ||
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pahndah
1193 Posts
On September 30 2010 12:01 Arhkangel wrote: Kizu putting the danger in Salvaging. Great job. Some people strive to evolve from a Zergling into a Roach or Hydralisk in EVE. I've undertaken the less traveled path and evolved from a drone into a changeling that can mine minerals. | ||
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tmonet
United States172 Posts
On September 30 2010 12:24 SWPIGWANG wrote: I think the most logical solution against an ahac gang is to BURN AWAY AND IGNORE THEM. Shield BC with MWD have no reason to engage without "I win" odds unless you are in a POS/Cap fight that you can't just leave the field or just got bubbled silly. what if its an ahac gang with like 30 arazus and rapiers? | ||
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r.Evo
Germany14080 Posts
Yes it is, but only in a very small window in terms of fleetsize. (The numbers I'm using refer to actual dps ships aka BCs. Add the odd tackler yourself.) If you are around 5-6 ships in your fleet the so called "force multipliers" start to shine. Force multipliers are everything that can help keep your guys alive more longer or keep more than one hostile helpless and pinned down. These ships include: ECM Boats (Rook > Falcon > BB > Kitsune) Neuting Boats (Curse) Logistics (Scimitar) To some extent a rapier/huginn has a similar role since its so damn effective at keeping frigates away. Now once you have around 15-20 people in your fleet a ship like the rook becomes almost useless. It's great dps addition for smaller gangs becomes no longer needed and the increased jamming and scouting strength of the falcon kicks in. A Blackbird starts to get useless while a kitsune is complete trash. Why? If you have a fleet of 20 people you're most likely to run from people with 40, rape people with 10 and.... get the real fights with a similar sized fleet. Once you get around 20 people most properly organized fleets (hint: About 15% of those you will encounter, the others should get raped easily) have ships DESIGNED to counter rather cheesy things like a few Blackbirds here and there. If those Blackbirds were Drakes however... The strongest force multipliers are without argument logistics. Then there's nothing for a long time, then stuff like the curse comes in. tl;dr: ECM is FUCKINGOMG!"&/%!"GREAT if your fleet has already 5-15 DPS boats and gets increasingly useless from there on. At about 25 or so ECM boats are pretty much deadweight (even though the odd falcon can still be usefull at times I'd much rather have another scimitar). "ECM is all cool and nice, but wtf should I jam in which fucking order?", since that might be a problem I'll wrap up some guidelines: (Rant) MAKE SURE TO NEVER FUCKING JAM THE PRIMARY ITS ABOUT TO DIE ANYWAY (/rant) In small engagements where you are raping the shit of them anyway, make sure to doublecheck with your FC if he wants jams. Nothing sucks more than realizing a BS only could jump out because your stupid Falconpilot decided it's cool to jam him from second one so he dropped aggro as soon as you engaged instead of shooting for 20 more seconds because of FUCKPANIC. Top priority for jams are (in short) ships that can deal a shitload of damage to your fleet AND won't be primaried off the field easily. For example a deimos/thorax/harbinger/brutix/cane are all ships that should be primaried off the field by the fleet instantly (yes, in that order). However a Vagabond or a Curse might not get tackled properly but would rape your small stuff. Jam them. You fight a random trash mixed gang of BCs and BSs? Don't jam that megathron that's always out of range. Jam the damn geddon raping through your drakes. They only have BCs? Listen to what your FC calls prim/secondary and spread jams on the rest. Here's a point where I disagree with some major FCs I've flown with (e.g. Mya) and agree with some others (Soho/progod): Do not under any circumstances try to jam hostile ECM boats or Logistics. Why not? Their strength is usually so damn high that you either fail all jams anyway or need too many jams for one target. Just focus on other stuff while your fleet deals with those guys. To sum it up: You should jam hostiles that do high damage in whatever way to your fleet, aren't primaried off the field easily and are easy to jam. KEEP IN MIND YOU'RE #1 PRIMARY FOR MOST FCs. What does this mean? If you're in a proper fleet stay with the logistics burning off, have a vaga/rapier combo around to protect you. STAY ALIGNED. You're fine with one tackler on you, jam him. WARP if there's more around and not enough friendlies to keep you safe. In a good fleetfight an ECM boat won't be able to stay on grid for more than 1-2 cycles (another reason why they get useless) cause good FCs will focus you with longrange and 1-2 nanohacs. If at all possible be the LAST PERSON to leave grid. I can't stress this enough, I've been saved myself by this and I was able to safe a lot of people by making that call to our own ECM, especially if you're in rather "trashy" fleets which don't leave a fight in an organized way. Your FC just called for the "Erh... get away guys"? Think in your head that you're the brave and annoying ECM pilot. Hang in there as long as possible (watch for arazus/lachesises!) and JAM THE FUCK OUT OF THEIR TACKLE IF ITS STILL ON YOUR GUYS. If your friendly is e.g. a curse or vaga, jam their BCs if there are any on them. They can kill the frigates themself. Once the FC makes the gtfo-call, consider coms as open and ask if anyone needs jams and ask people to call out names. To end this with one of the famous quotes by GTF (sexy falcon pilot): "I'm flying ECM because I want to be THAT guy. The WE ONLY LOST BECAUSE OF FALCON-GUY" ... You will be hated if you go for ecm, you will die a lot. You will be primaried all the fucking time. But the BECAUSE OF FALCON comment by their fleet is damn worth it. Speaking of jamming... -"Whats the difference between jam and jelly?" -"I can't jelly my d. down your throat." (c) Amish Pilot | ||
KwarK
United States43729 Posts
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KwarK
United States43729 Posts
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tmonet
United States172 Posts
On October 01 2010 03:11 KwarK wrote: Also how do you feel about scorpions? I made one that could lock and jam up to about 180k with a mwd and 6 jammers. Was fairly cheap and it's only disadvantages as far as I could see were being armour tanked (not a huge problem in scimmi fleets) and only having 70k EHP. align / move speed becomes a huge issue in 0.0 | ||
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s_side
United States700 Posts
On September 30 2010 12:24 SWPIGWANG wrote: Might as well say: train an army of Nyx Alts just in case PL decides to drop 20 Aeons on your grid. After all a super is invaluable and can rape any gang if they don't batphone a counter and you can just log before that happens. >.> Doesn't mean it is a good idea. Look, just to get into a Logi or have all T2 fits on that BC is a few month worth of training, and quite a few more to get it perfected. A Blackbird isn't exactly a powerful ship, but for something under 10m to fit and less than a month to all level IV on relevant skills, it is as good as it gets for someone that wants to jump in the action fast. Sure it will have trouble breaking ECCM-ed Logi chains, but it can definitely disrupt enemy plans and maybe take an BC or three out of the fight until it dies, where few other 10m ships can do effectively. Besides, a level IV scorp is only a few days away from a BB. (though probably too slow to keep with with shield BC gangs) I think the most logical solution against an ahac gang is to BURN AWAY AND IGNORE THEM. Shield BC with MWD have no reason to engage without "I win" odds unless you are in a POS/Cap fight that you can't just leave the field or just got bubbled silly. This makes no sense, whatsoever. Training for logis and bcs is a completely reasonable goal. You can be in a non-embarassing drake or hurricane at like 2.75m sp and then aim for a scimi. Telling new pilots to aim for that is in no way analogous to telling them "don't bother training for anything but a super, ~aim high!~" That's truly an asinine statement. It's obviously a matter of opinion, but having experience in all different types and sizes of gangs operating from Venal to Teneferis, I feel relatively comfortable in my ability to advise new space friends who are just beginning. In my opinion, you're better off focusing solely on getting into a t2 tanked (guns/launchers aren't as important as your tank) bc ASAP. You're going to be more useful for more gangs, and you'll have the added bonus of being able to rat easily with your ship. Whatever your feelings on Blackbirds are, I think we can agree they aren't exactly stellar pve boats. Oh, and don't worry about our moms, we're no where near you and even if we were, only scrubs/retards drop supercaps on bc/rifter gangs. | ||
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Arhkangel
Argentina769 Posts
ECM is EVE's answer to stun mechanics other games have. They are great when used on the right people, they are useless when miss-used or used on someone that can shrug them off easily. It's all about proper targeting, reaction and a little luck. I'm with revo on the target priorities. Logistics should be jammed as a last resources, don't rely on jamming the logistics in order to win the encounter. Those cycles are much better used in targets that will get jammed easier and that if you drop a cycle they can't just reset the whole encounter and leave you right back were you started. I love ECM  | ||
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SWPIGWANG
Canada482 Posts
After a lot of demands of newer players about salvaging, heres a little post explaining what you need and how to do it. That is really a nice way to go about it. Don't ZOMGWTF NINJAAAA that steals the damsel get the most money? (and tears) Also I wonder if yarebap and other amarr/min hubs is better due to superior salvage. In my opinion, you're better off focusing solely on getting into a t2 tanked (guns/launchers aren't as important as your tank) bc ASAP. I just remembered my RRRAAAAGEEE when I saw the huge disparity in DPS before I had T2 weaps and supports and was most displeased flying it against people. That said, pretty much everyone have to fly a BC at some point so it is good to get started early I guess. *wonders if fitting an array of med neuts and TD on a low skill BC works* | ||
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pahndah
1193 Posts
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Crazyspoon
United States50 Posts
I'd like to know if anyone could throw me a rope with getting acquainted with the current TL eve community (not sure about all that Liquid inc/hatchery stuff). I've read the OP extensively - however, I have yet to catch any of the recommended helpers/tutors online, prehaps because of my late playing hours. Further, also attributed to those hours, I find the SCBW channel to be somewhat unhelpful. If someone could point me the right way, or offer a 21 day trial, I'd very much appreciate it. This thread, PM, or message me if you play late (Name "Space Clam" on the 14 day acct). Thanks much for introducing me to this game. | ||
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pahndah
1193 Posts
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s_side
United States700 Posts
Don't be discouraged, though. I'd be happy to talk to you about good ways to get started and get your feet wet. I'm EST and usually on for a good chunk of the night. Shoot me (GordonAlexander) a convo in game. I used to be a Liquid director, and although i've moved on I still keep up with team liquid folks wherever they may be in Eve. Kwark_uk and JP Bear are also good guys to talk to and are directors in The Hatchery. Fly safe. | ||
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