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4492 Posts
OK, I'm just going to skip all the idiotic garbage that was piled up there lately, and address two things:
1) I say this in EVERY Mafia game, but so few ever listen: more info is GOOD for the Town, less is bad. Which means we should NOT make any hasty decisions right now. Normally I'd say the situation is good, because either RoL or Ace OR possibly both would be Mafia, which is good odds. But this time, I have my doubts, and that is because:
2) The new roles make for a VERY DIFFERENT situation. Either RoL OR Ace could be the Village Idiots. And lynching a Village Idiot serves nothing good for the Town, only for Mafia (we lose a lynch, Mafia won't make any mistakes in hits, etc...) and the VI himself. Honestly, I was expecting something like this from the beginning, I was willing to bet on huge amounts of drama right from the get-go, and here we are.
Just think of all the possibilities with the new roles! Here's one: Mafia uses the Mole (who flips green no matter what), or better yet, ANY green Townie (because if approached they won't know they are a mole, and would still serve the Mafia, later to be disposed of) to do some dirty work for them. What would they want to do in that case? Obviously cause confusion, and maybe kill a strong player in the process. Ver and Ace come up as prime candidates here of course. Once the rope tightens around the poor fake-Mole however, when the one he suggested to lynch flipped Town, he says "oh well I wasn't really a Jack, I was fed info by XY", gives them out, they get lynched, and at the end, the fake-Mole gets lynched as well, thinking he made a sacrifice for his family, while in reality he has been had in every orifice and the real Mole survives too. Now this is only possible if the Mafia knows of at least ONE green Townie (to avoid hitting blues obviously). So if by some way they found one such Townie, the strategy can be set in motion.
The key is to think like the Mafia would, not in the simplest way you'd want things to happen.
So what I propose is: Wait! The next day the Jack can prove himself by doing something of a request skill. By that time we NEED THE ROCKSTAR to come out. Once he's out we can start organizing things, do NOT ACT rashly before that.
Also, I simply refuse to believe that neither the RS and the VI have shown themselves yet. I bet they are somebody who posted before, but for some reason (obscure to me yet) they believe they are better off hiding. Granted, I still don't understand all the possibilities yet, but I just fail to see what danger it would be for the RS to come out already. As for the VI, I believe I have spotted him already, but I will keep these thoughts to myself so far.
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4492 Posts
On December 30 2008 11:52 Ace wrote:
actually I quit. I'd rather not play anymore.
Town lynch me please. I'm Godfather.
BTW if anyone wants to know the unbreakable strat, just PM me.
OK we have our VI then.
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On December 30 2008 11:57 Mynock wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2008 11:52 Ace wrote:
actually I quit. I'd rather not play anymore.
Town lynch me please. I'm Godfather.
BTW if anyone wants to know the unbreakable strat, just PM me. OK we have our VI then.
If he is VI what does that make ROL?
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United States2552 Posts
On December 30 2008 11:52 Ace wrote:
actually I quit. I'd rather not play anymore.
Town lynch me please. I'm Godfather.
BTW if anyone wants to know the unbreakable strat, just PM me.
if you're GF why would you choose to appear as red?
or did you not send in to Caller what you wanted to appear as, RoL checked you before you could?
or are you fucking with us?
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anyway this is the plan I discussed with someone before all this nonsense got too heated: The unbreakable strat.
back to how the my original plan works:
Day 1 the Rockstar roleclaims.
Mafia can't risk this roleclaim, because even without bodyguards speaking up if the town goes through lynches to confirm the real Rockstar and does not waste a role check then the mafia lose out on members + wasted DT abilities. This makes the Rockstar pretty much invincible until he is silenced, and this assumes the Rockstar doesn't have one of his bodyguards fake claim for him.
If the Rockstar is silenced, this is when the Vets step up. Being that the NRA member has no clue who he is, we have to hope that medics and DTs that plan on protting/checking people let someone else legit know. This way we can find out by their deaths who the NRA guy is (as it'll be a newsflash and not in the night post). This is an insane advantage the town has as their is no way anyone can be confused as to how the person died. Once this happens, the NRA member is told that he is NRA and now becomes a spokesperson for the confirmed innocents.
The Vets and the NRA guy are now the focal point of everything. The vets do not need to be confirmed - we just tell them general ideas to issue (along with ourselves speaking up). If a lot of people start speaking up, some Vets and the NRA guy the mafia will have to waste a ton of time to take all of them down, losing hits and members in the cause.
The only thing that can mess this up is a Village Idiot false claiming that slips by as we can't waste checks on everyone.
I'm going to post this to the town soon, but if you see any holes in this let me know asap. I've got another plan but I haven't fleshed it out too much. It has to do with Vigilantes and the DT PMing Caller 5 names. Not many people realize it yet, but that ability is more broken than almost anything else the town can do.
With a 100% sane Jack (thanks Caller) the town can't ever be confused. All it takes is 1 PM with all the claimed DTs to send to the Jack. Or have all the DTs use their ability once with 5 different names and send that list to the Jack who PMs caller all 5. Within 2 days the town will know whether their DTs are sane/insane + if they are all legit. From 2 invincible townies to 3 now.
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On December 30 2008 12:02 AttackZerg wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2008 11:57 Mynock wrote:On December 30 2008 11:52 Ace wrote:
actually I quit. I'd rather not play anymore.
Town lynch me please. I'm Godfather.
BTW if anyone wants to know the unbreakable strat, just PM me. OK we have our VI then. If he is VI what does that make ROL?
If Ace were really the VI then he wouldn't say anything. Most of the town is already lined up against him. Why would he post anything that would give doubt to that if he wanted to be killed?
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On December 30 2008 12:04 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2008 11:52 Ace wrote:
actually I quit. I'd rather not play anymore.
Town lynch me please. I'm Godfather.
BTW if anyone wants to know the unbreakable strat, just PM me. if you're GF why would you choose to appear as red? or did you not send in to Caller what you wanted to appear as, RoL checked you before you could? or are you fucking with us?
I was sleeping, I never got the chance to send him anything before I was surely checked. So I appeared green. Of course no one could know I was mafia so RoL jumped on a hunch - I tried to explain this to everyone even without revealing my role but the town as usual wouldn't listen to logic.
Once Caller revealed Jacks are 100% sane it kills any point of even playing anymore. The game is way too broken.
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United States2552 Posts
On December 30 2008 12:08 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2008 12:04 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote:On December 30 2008 11:52 Ace wrote:
actually I quit. I'd rather not play anymore.
Town lynch me please. I'm Godfather.
BTW if anyone wants to know the unbreakable strat, just PM me. if you're GF why would you choose to appear as red? or did you not send in to Caller what you wanted to appear as, RoL checked you before you could? or are you fucking with us? I was sleeping, I never got the chance to send him anything before I was surely checked. So I appeared green. Of course no one could know I was mafia so RoL jumped on a hunch - I tried to explain this to everyone even without revealing my role but the town as usual wouldn't listen to logic. Once Caller revealed Jacks are 100% sane it kills any point of even playing anymore. The game is way too broken.
but dt's and jacks have been 100% sane in all the past mafia games and nobody has complained about that. or is it the combination of sane jack + partially invincible roles like VI and NRA and Anarchist and RockStar?
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cause he's the village idiot think about it, you can't be killed and you just need to be lynched to "win". you could "win" or you could go crazy and fuck up the game from everyone else while laughing your ass off.
this is one possibility. or he could be mafia, either way, I've been against this odds thing (since last game) so I'mma sit this vote out and see where it goes from here. all these new roles/rules are adding in too much confusion.
And since Lucas wants me to say this: take everything with a grain of salt. I understand this is one way to move the game forward but it's very risky and I'm trying to understand why this way was taken instead of RS roleclaiming/his BGs fake roleclaiming and then a town network can be established. isn't that way A LOT safer?
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On December 30 2008 12:13 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2008 12:08 Ace wrote:On December 30 2008 12:04 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote:On December 30 2008 11:52 Ace wrote:
actually I quit. I'd rather not play anymore.
Town lynch me please. I'm Godfather.
BTW if anyone wants to know the unbreakable strat, just PM me. if you're GF why would you choose to appear as red? or did you not send in to Caller what you wanted to appear as, RoL checked you before you could? or are you fucking with us? I was sleeping, I never got the chance to send him anything before I was surely checked. So I appeared green. Of course no one could know I was mafia so RoL jumped on a hunch - I tried to explain this to everyone even without revealing my role but the town as usual wouldn't listen to logic. Once Caller revealed Jacks are 100% sane it kills any point of even playing anymore. The game is way too broken. but dt's and jacks have been 100% sane in all the past mafia games and nobody has complained about that. or is it the combination of sane jack + partially invincible roles like VI and NRA and Anarchist and RockStar?
not to mention mayor and pardonner are pretty much invincible and yet the game was never broken then
and what's to stop mafia from false roleclaiming NRA? or rockstar? One easy way is to let a generic mafia claim rockstar. But just sending a hit doesn't kill him could mean he's a lot of things, i.e. village idiot, protected by doc, etc. etc. etc. It can be very easy to make false roleclaims.
If you feel the game is so broken there's no point playing then fine. But keep in mind that I am game mod, and if the game does appear to be broken, I can modkill or modsilence, etc.
Besides, you're ignoring the fact that if someone does check the triggerhappy they still die and that's the end of that dt/jack, so you're already operating at a net disadvantage.
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4492 Posts
I must say, I too, don't really like all the invulnerable/ambiguous roles...
I like zombies tho...
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On December 30 2008 12:13 chaoser wrote:
cause he's the village idiot think about it, you can't be killed and you just need to be lynched to "win". you could "win" or you could go crazy and fuck up the game from everyone else while laughing your ass off.
this is one possibility. or he could be mafia, either way, I've been against this odds thing (since last game) so I'mma sit this vote out and see where it goes from here. all these new roles/rules are adding in too much confusion.
And since Lucas wants me to say this: take everything with a grain of salt. I understand this is one way to move the game forward but it's very risky and I'm trying to understand why this way was taken instead of RS roleclaiming/his BGs fake roleclaiming and then a town network can be established. isn't that way A LOT safer?
What?
So Ace sent that in a PM to Ver. I have a feeling THAT plan is the plan Ver was going to use. Thank goodness for us, if Ace is indeed the Godfather, Ver has made it known he's amending or editting it in some way. If Ace is the Godfather, mafia's had an incredibly long time to find holes in it (and the first hole is the rock star needs to be known. SO MAKE YOURSELF KNOWN).
Ace is far more convincing as the godfather than he is as a "non-mafioso." The logic actually makes sense this time, but he could be the village idiot more than ever.
I'll just re-iterate what the "new man, clearly the mafia leader" says "You shouldn’t have vetoed the free wheelchairs bill"
Ace also says “don't blame me, you should've voted for me the first time.” That sounds similar to what the “new man” is saying. He's justifying his killing by Caller's vetoing the “free wheelchairs bill.” I don't understand how the iPod clue relates to him. Care to explain Ace?
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On December 30 2008 12:24 Mynock wrote:
I must say, I too, don't really like all the invulnerable/ambiguous roles...
I like zombies tho...
they're not even close to invulnerable
the triggerhappy should be pretty obvious who he is after someone checks him and dies, exposing him for hits, until then he doesn't even know who he is
the rockstar should be pretty obvious as well (they're roleclaiming) you can silence them, go after bodyguards, etc.
the vets have two lives each, which is not a lot
there are an uncertain number of mafia and therefore killing power
you don't have to kill everybody to win
i can make clues even more ambiguous if i want to
lalalalalalalala
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On December 30 2008 12:13 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2008 12:08 Ace wrote:On December 30 2008 12:04 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote:On December 30 2008 11:52 Ace wrote:
actually I quit. I'd rather not play anymore.
Town lynch me please. I'm Godfather.
BTW if anyone wants to know the unbreakable strat, just PM me. if you're GF why would you choose to appear as red? or did you not send in to Caller what you wanted to appear as, RoL checked you before you could? or are you fucking with us? I was sleeping, I never got the chance to send him anything before I was surely checked. So I appeared green. Of course no one could know I was mafia so RoL jumped on a hunch - I tried to explain this to everyone even without revealing my role but the town as usual wouldn't listen to logic. Once Caller revealed Jacks are 100% sane it kills any point of even playing anymore. The game is way too broken. but dt's and jacks have been 100% sane in all the past mafia games and nobody has complained about that. or is it the combination of sane jack + partially invincible roles like VI and NRA and Anarchist and RockStar?
read my unbreakable strat. One or two mafia can deal with but have to lose members, but a sane jack is going to kill us :/
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Caller they are invincible, trust me on this.
Once the Rockstar role claim the game is over. Mafia can't fake role claim this game. That would be 100% lose.
Why can't anyone understand this :/
Mayor and Pardoner were never invincible because either or could be MAFIA. The Rockstar is 100% guaranteed townie AND there is only 1 of him which means there is no role clashing. Same with the NRA member.
Hence, mafia can't ever role claim without losing members. 3 townies can NOT be killed without the mafia losing members. So why are we bullshitting?
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On December 30 2008 12:33 Ace wrote:
Caller they are invincible, trust me on this.
Once the Rockstar role claim the game is over. Mafia can't fake role claim this game. That would be 100% lose.
Why can't anyone understand this :/
Mayor and Pardoner were never invincible because either or could be MAFIA. The Rockstar is 100% guaranteed townie AND there is only 1 of him which means there is no role clashing. Same with the NRA member.
Hence, mafia can't ever role claim without losing members. 3 townies can NOT be killed without the mafia losing members. So why are we bullshitting?
so would modkilling the rock star make you feel better
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how is that gonna help? :/
You might as well let the game go on, or restart and make sure no one is invincible. I posted about the town being overpowered in the first 10 pages and you made me mafia.
poetic justice yo?
T_T
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On December 30 2008 12:35 Ace wrote:
how is that gonna help? :/
You might as well let the game go on, or restart and make sure no one is invincible. I posted about the town being overpowered in the first 10 pages and you made me mafia.
poetic justice yo?
T_T
i dunno
and blame the random number generator that i used
game will go on but probably some administrative abuse will go on
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so uh is this game over already, shall we restart? this seems pretty retarded
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United States2552 Posts
i say we play it out, if it's truly imba it will end quickly either way. i want to see what happens.
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EPT
