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On December 25 2011 12:31 Fzero wrote:
So I'm nearly level 36 now and I've done Tython, Coruscant, Nar Shadaa, and Taris, and I still have the following planets to do......
Alderaan
Balmora
Quesh
Hoth
Belsavis
Voss
Corellia
Hutta
Ilum
Um, if they don't get much smaller I'm hitting 50 way before the end. I just got on Alderaan and all my quests are grey/green.
Hutta is Empire starting world. Ilum is level 50 dailies/PvP.
One of the planets is really short, I think Belsavis. Being ahead of the curve you can skip the bonus quests which can be nice.
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On December 25 2011 12:37 Zocat wrote:
derp who cares
Fzero:
That`s normal and the typical MMO problem. You reach max level before you complete every area.
Also in MMORPGs`s time = everything. If you (everyone) have a cool concept which breaks with this mantra - share it with everyone
About difficulty:
Leveling dungeons need to contain tank & spank. As I mentioned early WoW (primus of MMOs, therefore it's mentioned) had a lot of tank & spank in it's introduction raid (MC)).
You do have people in SWTOR who have never played a MMORPG before. It cannot cater only to WoW experienced players, or it WILL fail.
Of course it can progress through difficulty faster, but you still need to teach people the basics. Therefore you start with tank & spank. Athiss, Candemimu (sic?), Telos V (sic?) all have encounters which require more than just basic tank & spank.
The same principle applies to the raid tier. You cannot apply WoW difficulty to it, you have new players who need to learn the basics. So if experienced WoW guilds try normal/hardmode of course they will succeed with ease. Since world top guilds (in WoW) like Irae AoD (that's why I asked Fruiscante for guilds who cleared it on nightmare, which he failed to provide, for multiple times) didnt manage to clear Nightmare Mode that is actually a very good sign.
Btw please provide ideas to make a mmorpg competitive without making invested time the most important factor!
To be fair they are 4/5 already.
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On December 25 2011 06:15 Kisra wrote:Show nested quote +Nar Shadda puts Ironforge, Stormwind, etc to shame in atmosphere. You get the feeling that it's completely believable that billions of people live there. Tatooine had one of the best atmospheres as well, it really is this massive desert with small cities and outposts spread throughout with people everywhere working. The amount of detail they put in cities with guards and citizens walking around/talking/working at stations provides so much atmosphere and immersion, you see nothing comparable in WoW. How does Nar Shaddaa do this? All I remember about Nar Shaddaa is fighting exchange members again and again in big 'street' rooms that had crates and such in them. The promenade had some signs of day to day life but very few people inhabiting it. The casino has a bit of life to it, but remains unused - at least for Imperials, not sure if the Republic go there for anything. Tatooine... I didn't get much feeling for the culture there. Just sent killing Sand People and exchange again and bouncing from Imperial Camp to Imperial Camp. There's the occasional conversation but they're few and far between. The game has good environmental design - some of the vistas they give are really breathtaking - its just hard to get a feel for each world beyond something very flat or what they outright tell you. There's snippets - like seeing the Jawa Balloon floating over the Dune Sea gave me a real "Oh, neat, wonder what that's about" feel to it, but when moving from Imperial Outpost 3255 to Imperial Outpost 7545 on another world I just don't feel too engaged. Show nested quote +The Imperial Space Fleet has no atmosphere? I think you might just be too biased against this game or something because there's no way you can seriously argue the locations in TOR have no atmosphere, you're just being really nitpicky. Why does it exist and what does it do? Really? You should be able to answer those questions. I'm deadly serious about the Space Station. I can make up reasons why it exists and what it does, but all I get to see is a ring where, for some reason, there's small little sections for each class to receive training. Why am I being trained by someone in a small booth next to some other guy from a completely different walk of life being trained in the same place? The shops or crafting areas also have no real feel to them - they're clearly there for the players benefit, not for the "worldbuilding" or anything. It's artificial. Who lives and works on the space station? Who runs it? As far as I can tell it exists because the developers needed a hub to cram the auction houses and direct players to between worlds, not for any reason to do with the story or any over-arching narrative. The fact that the Imperial and Republic stations are complete mirrors just demonstrates my point - they're flat, designed-totally-for-player-use and have little else going for them. They built somewhere for amenities and then stuffed the players in there. Let's take Stormwind again - it has cheese shops. My rogue was trained at their special operations HQ, my mage at their mage school, and so on. It has people and places entirely for flavour. It's a place aswell as a hub. I use WoW references because its something that everything is familiar with. I can use analogues from a lot of MMOs, however, but WoW's just easier. I'm also aware this is an opinion thing, some of you could find these worlds amazing and they suck you right in, which case, great - just not doing it for me. I don't get much urge to really explore around or get to know the world, or think about what it'd be like to live there. Azeroth did okay with that - funnily enough, Age of Conan's major cities did really well with that. I'll also say going off GW2's blogs, its also lining up for doing well with that, spending a lot of time getting each race's capitol correct and their relative questing environments feeling right. Show nested quote +Combat however, feels more crisp and less clunky in WoW. I hope they continue to improve that. Also the UI in SWTOR is absolutely horrendous, so little information and customization yet so much clutter and such large graphical elements. Come the revolution SWTOR's UI developers are first up against the wall.
All I remember about Elwynn Forest is Hogger. A random dog in the middle of the woods I had to kill for w/e reason. Not very immersive... It's hard to believe this dog was causing farmers problems. Where is the realness!!!
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I just bought and love this game. My only complaint is that every fucking day someone brings up the motherfucking WoW vs. SWTOR argument, and now its here. This is retarded, honestly they are both good and have their own merits and faults. Why can't people just play the fucking game and enjoy it and if you like one better go play it and then shut up.
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On December 25 2011 12:37 Zocat wrote:
derp who cares
Fzero:
That`s normal and the typical MMO problem. You reach max level before you complete every area.
Also in MMORPGs`s time = everything. If you (everyone) have a cool concept which breaks with this mantra - share it with everyone
About difficulty:
Leveling dungeons need to contain tank & spank. As I mentioned early WoW (primus of MMOs, therefore it's mentioned) had a lot of tank & spank in it's introduction raid (MC)).
You do have people in SWTOR who have never played a MMORPG before. It cannot cater only to WoW experienced players, or it WILL fail.
Of course it can progress through difficulty faster, but you still need to teach people the basics. Therefore you start with tank & spank. Athiss, Candemimu (sic?), Telos V (sic?) all have encounters which require more than just basic tank & spank.
The same principle applies to the raid tier. You cannot apply WoW difficulty to it, you have new players who need to learn the basics. So if experienced WoW guilds try normal/hardmode of course they will succeed with ease. Since world top guilds (in WoW) like Irae AoD (that's why I asked Fruiscante for guilds who cleared it on nightmare, which he failed to provide, for multiple times) didnt manage to clear Nightmare Mode that is actually a very good sign.
Btw please provide ideas to make a mmorpg competitive without making invested time the most important factor!
So every raid in the game is easy and a tank n' spank (with the exception of a few boss') to cater to new players?
Provide a source or that's major backpedaling =/ I refuse to believe they explicitly made this game extremely easy because "so many people are coming from non-MMO backgrounds" unless I see it for myself. There's nothing wrong with they messed up and made the content far too easy. They can just patch it harder and add more content. But don't make up excuses...
On December 25 2011 13:10 ZestyPickle wrote:
I just bought and love this game. My only complaint is that every fucking day someone brings up the motherfucking WoW vs. SWTOR argument, and now its here. This is retarded, honestly they are both good and have their own merits and faults. Why can't people just play the fucking game and enjoy it and if you like one better go play it and then shut up.
There's a quintessential difference between "WOW VS SWTOR!!!" and, as that person who did that write up earlier said, using it as a baseline of comparison since so many people are so familiar with it. As much as you'd like to believe, SWTOR isn't a special snowflake of uniqueness and it does have similarities to those before it, and using those extremely successful ones before it to compare it since so many people would be familiar with those former ones and get the relations being made does not make it "WoW vs SWTOR"
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On December 25 2011 13:10 ZestyPickle wrote:
I just bought and love this game. My only complaint is that every fucking day someone brings up the motherfucking WoW vs. SWTOR argument, and now its here. This is retarded, honestly they are both good and have their own merits and faults. Why can't people just play the fucking game and enjoy it and if you like one better go play it and then shut up. Lol. It's a forum. Discussion happens in a forum. I'm sorry what people are discussing makes you qq. For people who don't actually have the game but may be interested to know what its like (like me, and others I would assume), comparisons like these are helpful. Especially since a majority of MMO players have experience to some degree with WoW.
What exactly do you love about it, though?
I think I'm still stuck on the fence about this game... I love the star wars universe, movies, books, grew up on it, etc, but I don't really know if I could get into it enough to enjoy the grinds. I think the storytelling is a really nice breakthrough for MMOs though and I hope to see it going this direction in future games. Maybe I need to wait for a demo. Then again, Diablo III is around the corner.
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On December 25 2011 13:10 ZestyPickle wrote:
I just bought and love this game. My only complaint is that every fucking day someone brings up the motherfucking WoW vs. SWTOR argument, and now its here. This is retarded, honestly they are both good and have their own merits and faults. Why can't people just play the fucking game and enjoy it and if you like one better go play it and then shut up.
Yeah i'm almost going to avoid this for a day and hope it goes away but with certain people in this thread I don't see it going away anytime soon :/.
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On December 25 2011 13:37 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2011 13:10 ZestyPickle wrote:
I just bought and love this game. My only complaint is that every fucking day someone brings up the motherfucking WoW vs. SWTOR argument, and now its here. This is retarded, honestly they are both good and have their own merits and faults. Why can't people just play the fucking game and enjoy it and if you like one better go play it and then shut up. Yeah i'm almost going to avoid this for a day and hope it goes away but with certain people in this thread I don't see it going away anytime soon :/.
Like many have said (including me) before, considering how famous WoW is in the MMO and gaming community alike, and the absolutely astounding numbers it has (almost 12 million at one point) it only seems logical to use it as a baseline of comparison since that is what people are most familiar with. If EVE was the most famous, we would use EVE. If Warhammer was the most famous, we would use Warhammer as our basis. However, considering WoW's position in the past and present -- why NOT use it? Almost everyone in the gaming community has at least some experience with it, and every MMO player pretty much has SOME experience playing it. It's the most logical choice of game to use when writing a review or comparing it to something.
So no, it's never going away, unless SWTOR gets so big that we can use SWTOR as the basis of comparison for future MMO's  (Which I give it the best of luck for doing!)
Nonetheless, this debate is rather arbitrary in itself, so let's stop talking on it. I would love to hear more peoples opinions on this game. Well, not like I'd read them anytime soon considering I'm going to be spending all day tomorrow with the family, but when I get back :D
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On December 25 2011 06:15 Kisra wrote:Show nested quote +Nar Shadda puts Ironforge, Stormwind, etc to shame in atmosphere. You get the feeling that it's completely believable that billions of people live there. Tatooine had one of the best atmospheres as well, it really is this massive desert with small cities and outposts spread throughout with people everywhere working. The amount of detail they put in cities with guards and citizens walking around/talking/working at stations provides so much atmosphere and immersion, you see nothing comparable in WoW. How does Nar Shaddaa do this? All I remember about Nar Shaddaa is fighting exchange members again and again in big 'street' rooms that had crates and such in them. The promenade had some signs of day to day life but very few people inhabiting it. The casino has a bit of life to it, but remains unused - at least for Imperials, not sure if the Republic go there for anything. Tatooine... I didn't get much feeling for the culture there. Just sent killing Sand People and exchange again and bouncing from Imperial Camp to Imperial Camp. There's the occasional conversation but they're few and far between. The game has good environmental design - some of the vistas they give are really breathtaking - its just hard to get a feel for each world beyond something very flat or what they outright tell you. There's snippets - like seeing the Jawa Balloon floating over the Dune Sea gave me a real "Oh, neat, wonder what that's about" feel to it, but when moving from Imperial Outpost 3255 to Imperial Outpost 7545 on another world I just don't feel too engaged. Show nested quote +The Imperial Space Fleet has no atmosphere? I think you might just be too biased against this game or something because there's no way you can seriously argue the locations in TOR have no atmosphere, you're just being really nitpicky. Why does it exist and what does it do? Really? You should be able to answer those questions. I'm deadly serious about the Space Station. I can make up reasons why it exists and what it does, but all I get to see is a ring where, for some reason, there's small little sections for each class to receive training. Why am I being trained by someone in a small booth next to some other guy from a completely different walk of life being trained in the same place? The shops or crafting areas also have no real feel to them - they're clearly there for the players benefit, not for the "worldbuilding" or anything. It's artificial. Who lives and works on the space station? Who runs it? As far as I can tell it exists because the developers needed a hub to cram the auction houses and direct players to between worlds, not for any reason to do with the story or any over-arching narrative. The fact that the Imperial and Republic stations are complete mirrors just demonstrates my point - they're flat, designed-totally-for-player-use and have little else going for them. They built somewhere for amenities and then stuffed the players in there. Let's take Stormwind again - it has cheese shops. My rogue was trained at their special operations HQ, my mage at their mage school, and so on. It has people and places entirely for flavour. It's a place aswell as a hub. I use WoW references because its something that everything is familiar with. I can use analogues from a lot of MMOs, however, but WoW's just easier. I'm also aware this is an opinion thing, some of you could find these worlds amazing and they suck you right in, which case, great - just not doing it for me. I don't get much urge to really explore around or get to know the world, or think about what it'd be like to live there. Azeroth did okay with that - funnily enough, Age of Conan's major cities did really well with that. I'll also say going off GW2's blogs, its also lining up for doing well with that, spending a lot of time getting each race's capitol correct and their relative questing environments feeling right. Show nested quote +Combat however, feels more crisp and less clunky in WoW. I hope they continue to improve that. Also the UI in SWTOR is absolutely horrendous, so little information and customization yet so much clutter and such large graphical elements. Come the revolution SWTOR's UI developers are first up against the wall.
I don't know what to tell you other than you and I have very different reactions to this game. It seems like you're just biased against this game and it's causing you overestimate said minor faults (assuming they are faults at all) in this game while underestimating the very same faults* that exist in the other games you're comparing it to. Nar Shadaa, Tatooine, the Space Station, I don't think you're accurately criticizing them at all. Maybe I'm the one biased though, idk.
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People are nitpicking to the extreme in this thread...its ridiculous.
- The space station being "unimmersive"? ...right, because i dont believe im on a spaceship when im there.
- "Trainers being in booths"...All i remember from our comparison game is a druid standing next to some voodoo pillar, fuck me so real!
Seriously, stop the nitpicking. Its pathetic and the same if not more can be done to your precious little WoW.
(P.S Valid things like the UI, difficulty and that isnt what im on about)
This thread is actually killing my love for the game as when i log on i sit there picking stupid shit out rather then enjoying it -_-. I wish i had the willpower to stay out of this thread 
I enjoy this game 10x more then any MMO ive played. (except maybe GW PvP ) and its awesome :3.
I also have a fucking lightsaber.
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I feel like one major disadvantage this game has against WoW is that you can't mod the UI. Sure, some people don't like damage meters, gearscore and stuff like that, but for players like me who fail to play an mmo for months on end just for the immersion in the world alone(I just can't do it), those are very important things that make it easy to benchmark your character progression.
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I have just started playing, the multiplayer questing is awesome!
My only concern is that it seems skill doesn't matters in PvP that much, the first thing is autotracking (your character moves with your taget so it never can be nehind you to prevent damage).
The second thing is that you dont got many spells that have an effect on your opponent (stuns, CC, incapacitate and interrupts). If you do a ranged vs ranged battle, the one with the best gear will always win, or the one who attacks first  . Maybe it will do at max level but when I see the spells and talents it doesn't seems like it.
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@Heishe - They said they intend to implement user mods some time around the first patch, but I have no idea when that will be. I was a hardcore UI modder in WoW, so I'm looking forward to it, but I do have to say this: the base UI for SW is vastly superior to it's counterpart in WoW.
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On December 25 2011 20:14 ryanAnger wrote:
@Heishe - They said they intend to implement user mods some time around the first patch, but I have no idea when that will be. I was a hardcore UI modder in WoW, so I'm looking forward to it, but I do have to say this: the base UI for SW is vastly superior to it's counterpart in WoW.
Why is that? I can't really make out much difference between the two. Other than the fact that the "auction house" in SWTOR handles terribly.
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I just joined the bunch and bought SW:TOR after i said i wouldnt play an MMO again haha. I shouldnt have watched the star wars movies during x-mas, after that i just WANTED to play. Lest hope its good!
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I'm curious. Is this as button spammy as WoW? I'm not really sold on the idea of another mmo yet, and if I would I don't think I'd want to drown myself in another game with the same basic gameplay. So I guess I'm asking wow players who switched, if it's a massive difference, or if it's more of the same, click your 2-3 skills, loot, move on kinda deal.
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United States7483 Posts
On December 25 2011 20:47 Neeh wrote:
I'm curious. Is this as button spammy as WoW? I'm not really sold on the idea of another mmo yet, and if I would I don't think I'd want to drown myself in another game with the same basic gameplay. So I guess I'm asking wow players who switched, if it's a massive difference, or if it's more of the same, click your 2-3 skills, loot, move on kinda deal.
It's the same basic gameplay style, although I find myself making more frequent use of a variety of skills than I did in WoW, especially while leveling.
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On December 25 2011 20:06 Pippi wrote:I have just started playing, the multiplayer questing is awesome! My only concern is that it seems skill doesn't matters in PvP that much, the first thing is autotracking (your character moves with your taget so it never can be nehind you to prevent damage). The second thing is that you dont got many spells that have an effect on your opponent (stuns, CC, incapacitate and interrupts). If you do a ranged vs ranged battle, the one with the best gear will always win, or the one who attacks first . Maybe it will do at max level but when I see the spells and talents it doesn't seems like it.
Oh you do get a lot of CC's, perhaps not every single class, but overall in warzones it's starting to become a problem that there are way too much CC.
(You're right about the skill part though, it doesn't take much skill, but that's the nature of PvP in a theme park game like this.)
On December 25 2011 20:47 Neeh wrote:
I'm curious. Is this as button spammy as WoW? I'm not really sold on the idea of another mmo yet, and if I would I don't think I'd want to drown myself in another game with the same basic gameplay. So I guess I'm asking wow players who switched, if it's a massive difference, or if it's more of the same, click your 2-3 skills, loot, move on kinda deal.
It's really "button-spammy" because there's no autoattack, but it's usually more than 2-3 skills (unless you roll a Mercenary, though mercenary gets a few more buttons at 50).
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On December 25 2011 20:06 Pippi wrote:I have just started playing, the multiplayer questing is awesome! My only concern is that it seems skill doesn't matters in PvP that much, the first thing is autotracking (your character moves with your taget so it never can be nehind you to prevent damage). The second thing is that you dont got many spells that have an effect on your opponent (stuns, CC, incapacitate and interrupts). If you do a ranged vs ranged battle, the one with the best gear will always win, or the one who attacks first . Maybe it will do at max level but when I see the spells and talents it doesn't seems like it.
If you think theres no CC, you should try playing warzones against 6 sith inquisitors(i think) or sorcerers, whatever same base class. Annoying as hell, between knockbacks stuns slows its nearly impossible to fight one. Even like.. my sentinel i have a slow 2 leaps a channeled stun, and an interrupt. The massive amount of CC on some classes that also have heals is a problem.
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I'm thinking of what class to create as I'm waiting for my delivery. I am thinking of a Jedi healer class, but honestly no idea what that means in TOR terms. So I kinda need help with that.
Also, does every Sith/Jedi have lightsaber as default? I don't wanna have a healer class that goes around all the time fighting using the Force, I still wanna use my saber from time to time.
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EPT
