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i was just in an instance where 1 boss had 6 flags of 2 colors and when he channeled a shot of a specific color and that color has more than 4 flags, someone dies.
And before that was a sith dude that was jumping all over the freaking room throwing rocks into our faces.
The instance before that we didnt even see one boss because the first thigng you do there is playing egoshooter for 10 minutes, which we failed at 10 times. We were really annoyed and just moved on. I dont know why they added that part, i dont want to play serious sam in a mmo group instance.
So i dont exactly see the tank and spank thing. Its not like rift where every boss has 5 phases, two oneshot abilities etc, but i dont need that, it looses its charm once figured out anyways.
I would love for mmo devs to include more hardcore dps and heal races, those can be more intense than running around doing a script.
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So I got in on Tues with early access and hit 50 yesterday as a Sith Sorcerer after a little less than 5 days played. Just the storyline/gametime from that class would have been worth paying $60. Thoughts on some things that I've seen discussed in the thread:
PVP
Disclaimer: I did not play arena seriously in WOW and quit before RBGs came out. Did a fair amount of BG farming however, just to give some perspective.
PVP seems a bit unpolished with some classes appearing broken but I've had fun in the BGs I've played. They really do need to let you choose which one to queue into. It's also odd being in the same BGs regardless of level but I suppose that will just take some getting used to. Perhaps 50 should get their own bracket just because of access to additional skills/talents/etc.
PVE
Leveling
In terms of FPs I only did Hammer Station and Black Talon leveling up. To keep up with the recommended level I had to do the bonus series on Voss but no other planets. I also tried to do my PVP and space dailies every day. All in all, the leveling experience was quite smooth.
Mobs in the world are primarily clustered into either:
1. 3-5 standard mobs
2. 1 strong, 1 or 2 standard
3. 1 elite, 0 or 1 standard
4. 2 strong
Some groupings can be more difficult than others but none prohibitively hard.
Endgame
Did Battle of Ilum and False Emperor as a healer today. Not impressed by difficulty of normal modes. Not sure if this was because all of us had raided in WOW, Sorc healing OP (infinite mana basically), or just inherent easiness of normal modes. Trying out some HMs tomorrow to find out, will probably end up streaming (if so I'll post here). Still had fun, but could be just because I've been out of the MMO game for a while.
Looking at this it seems rambly/disjointed and probably not all too helpful but feel free to ask any questions you might have and I'll try to answer.
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Hope this wasn't posted:
http://www.swtor.com/blog/sneak-peek-james-ohlen
A lot of people have been asking for more information on our future plans. What are we going to provide for players in terms of features and content? While we’ve given some information on what features we’re working on, we haven’t given much detail about content. We’ve said that we’ll be providing new Flashpoints, Operations and Warzones. Now we’d like to give some more details on what they are.
Next month we're going to be releasing a new Flashpoint and an expanded Operation. The new Flashpoint involves a plague that could have significant repercussions across the galaxy. It takes place on a brand new world and involves some pretty epic battles. I can’t go into much detail, but be prepared for something different. The expanded Operation takes the existing Karagga’s palace scenario and more than triples it in size. It includes three new boss monsters and some pretty epic set pieces. You won’t believe the last boss, so we’ve provided an image as a tease.
![[image loading]](http://cdn-www.swtor.com/sites/all/files/en/cb/kragga_535x381.jpg)
We plan to continue releasing Flashpoints, Operations, Warzones and new game systems on a regular cadence. This patch coming early next year is only a taste of what is to come. Stay tuned for more announcements!
I think it's awesome how they've already got more content ready to be released within 2-3 weeks of the game coming out =D
Also, level 43 juggernaut now (vengeance spec) and still loving this game, maybe even more than before. Slicing is OP cashflow, Vette is the best companion in the game and does mad dps, I keep swaying between light-side and dark-side hovering within the -750 to 750 alignment range, my starship wrecks spacebattles now, PvP might not be perfectly balanced but it's fun as hell, etc etc. It's all good in the galaxy.
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On December 24 2011 12:32 Ighox wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2011 12:15 Capped wrote:
At ^ above post. Why are people expecting that stupid? Because asking for FPS like combat to be implemented into an MMORPG is like bitchslapping your buyers in the face. Its adding a playstyle to the game they didnt advertise nor try to cater to demand.
Adding a system like the mythical water combat of GW2 would be a better idea. Where its still MMORPG-style combat but "different" because its not on land (I dont know the way to say up down forward back left and right rofl, brainfart at 3am.)
Again, I don't understand why, you already need to aim and move your ship sideways and up/down (and if anything the aiming part is adding a playstyle), you just can't move freely around in the mission, you fly in a straight line on a predetermined path. Show nested quote +
Ive not experienced the space combat but i damn sure dont want or expect FPS style speed and combat when i want to sit back and play my MMO for the evening.
Then don't do space combat? It's sort of like saying "remove the PvP system, I don't want to "compete" against other players when I want to sit back and play my MMO for the evening". And since you haven't even tried it, come back after you've tried it and see if you still think it's a bad idea compared to the current space combat system. You might not like the space combat system at all, and that's fine, but that's not the issue here, it's the could be vs the current one and not if you like space combat or not.
No. Its not like saying remove the pvp at all. What people want is them to add another genre of game into SWTOR - Its a ridiculous idea. As i said before, add something like GW2's water combat system (of course, im just going on looks and hearsay.) you have 100% control and its still in MMORPG-fashion, its just "360" combat with a bit of a difference (i know the use of 360 is wrong but how do u describe it ffs.) - Making it like battlefront 2 would be ludicrous as that requires a whole different pallet of skill and tastes which alot of MMO gamers dont have nor want. I loved the space combat of battlefront 2, i still dont want to play it when i log on for SWTOR.  I hope you can see my point behind this :|
And telling me "just dont play it" - well what if it offers unique rewards? Ones required for raids or pvp or whatever? I would be forced to play at a disadvantage or do something i dislike/dont want to do/suck at for hours on end. Adding a 360 spacial control to the ship and giving it the hotkey skills is a much better idea then making it into a fps flight combat. As it would still be in the style of the game everybody bought to play.
Oh and P.S i loved Battlefront 2's space fights and i considered myself the bane of bots and my friends. (mainly because they didnt play often ^^) I was just talking on the perspective of others, if they did actually release it i would play it like a madman, i just dont think its a good choice adding an entirely different genre into a game
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Picked it up today, do I need to download all 27 gigs before I can play? 
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4713 Posts
Capped, I think you are completely wrong on the space combat for one very simple reason. This is a Star Wars MMO, it isn't like any other MMO, it isn't WoW it isn't Everquest it is SW. All of us who have followed the SW movies, played the games etc expect some form of good solid space combat. Some people are more then willing to buy it for the space combat. I know a couple of friends that explicitly didn't buy it because of the lack of good space combat.
In fact, while I hate the combat system on the ground, since I hate the tank/healer/DPS model, the roll based system with crits, dodges, resilience etc. I'd love a good space combat like BF2, and I can whole-heatedly say that I'd consider playing ToR for more then a month if it had serious space combat and space orientated missions and PVP.
So consider that, this isn't a regular MMO where people have a certain set of expectations, this is a SW MMO, and people have a different set of expectations, and one of them includes good space combat.
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On December 24 2011 20:39 Capped wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2011 12:32 Ighox wrote:On December 24 2011 12:15 Capped wrote:
At ^ above post. Why are people expecting that stupid? Because asking for FPS like combat to be implemented into an MMORPG is like bitchslapping your buyers in the face. Its adding a playstyle to the game they didnt advertise nor try to cater to demand.
Adding a system like the mythical water combat of GW2 would be a better idea. Where its still MMORPG-style combat but "different" because its not on land (I dont know the way to say up down forward back left and right rofl, brainfart at 3am.)
Again, I don't understand why, you already need to aim and move your ship sideways and up/down (and if anything the aiming part is adding a playstyle), you just can't move freely around in the mission, you fly in a straight line on a predetermined path.
Ive not experienced the space combat but i damn sure dont want or expect FPS style speed and combat when i want to sit back and play my MMO for the evening.
Then don't do space combat? It's sort of like saying "remove the PvP system, I don't want to "compete" against other players when I want to sit back and play my MMO for the evening". And since you haven't even tried it, come back after you've tried it and see if you still think it's a bad idea compared to the current space combat system. You might not like the space combat system at all, and that's fine, but that's not the issue here, it's the could be vs the current one and not if you like space combat or not. No. Its not like saying remove the pvp at all. What people want is them to add another genre of game into SWTOR - Its a ridiculous idea. As i said before, add something like GW2's water combat system (of course, im just going on looks and hearsay.) you have 100% control and its still in MMORPG-fashion, its just "360" combat with a bit of a difference (i know the use of 360 is wrong but how do u describe it ffs.) - Making it like battlefront 2 would be ludicrous as that requires a whole different pallet of skill and tastes which alot of MMO gamers dont have nor want. I loved the space combat of battlefront 2, i still dont want to play it when i log on for SWTOR. I hope you can see my point behind this :| And telling me "just dont play it" - well what if it offers unique rewards? Ones required for raids or pvp or whatever? I would be forced to play at a disadvantage or do something i dislike/dont want to do/suck at for hours on end. Adding a 360 spacial control to the ship and giving it the hotkey skills is a much better idea then making it into a fps flight combat. As it would still be in the style of the game everybody bought to play. Oh and P.S i loved Battlefront 2's space fights and i considered myself the bane of bots and my friends. (mainly because they didnt play often ^^) I was just talking on the perspective of others, if they did actually release it i would play it like a madman, i just dont think its a good choice adding an entirely different genre into a game
FPS combat is still in a "MMORPG-fashion", MMORPG's aren't exclusively retarded tab targetting all the way.
And it doesn't have any unique rewards except ship upgrades, fleet commendations and titles so you wouldn't be "forced" into anything.
You don't have to do every aspect of the MMO you're playing, it's fine to just say it isn't for you and leave it at that, plenty of other stuff to do.
But anyways discussing this with someone who haven't even tried the space combat system is pointless so I'm out, but it's not ridiculous at all.
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On December 24 2011 22:38 Ighox wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2011 20:39 Capped wrote:On December 24 2011 12:32 Ighox wrote:On December 24 2011 12:15 Capped wrote:
At ^ above post. Why are people expecting that stupid? Because asking for FPS like combat to be implemented into an MMORPG is like bitchslapping your buyers in the face. Its adding a playstyle to the game they didnt advertise nor try to cater to demand.
Adding a system like the mythical water combat of GW2 would be a better idea. Where its still MMORPG-style combat but "different" because its not on land (I dont know the way to say up down forward back left and right rofl, brainfart at 3am.)
Again, I don't understand why, you already need to aim and move your ship sideways and up/down (and if anything the aiming part is adding a playstyle), you just can't move freely around in the mission, you fly in a straight line on a predetermined path.
Ive not experienced the space combat but i damn sure dont want or expect FPS style speed and combat when i want to sit back and play my MMO for the evening.
Then don't do space combat? It's sort of like saying "remove the PvP system, I don't want to "compete" against other players when I want to sit back and play my MMO for the evening". And since you haven't even tried it, come back after you've tried it and see if you still think it's a bad idea compared to the current space combat system. You might not like the space combat system at all, and that's fine, but that's not the issue here, it's the could be vs the current one and not if you like space combat or not. No. Its not like saying remove the pvp at all. What people want is them to add another genre of game into SWTOR - Its a ridiculous idea. As i said before, add something like GW2's water combat system (of course, im just going on looks and hearsay.) you have 100% control and its still in MMORPG-fashion, its just "360" combat with a bit of a difference (i know the use of 360 is wrong but how do u describe it ffs.) - Making it like battlefront 2 would be ludicrous as that requires a whole different pallet of skill and tastes which alot of MMO gamers dont have nor want. I loved the space combat of battlefront 2, i still dont want to play it when i log on for SWTOR. I hope you can see my point behind this :| And telling me "just dont play it" - well what if it offers unique rewards? Ones required for raids or pvp or whatever? I would be forced to play at a disadvantage or do something i dislike/dont want to do/suck at for hours on end. Adding a 360 spacial control to the ship and giving it the hotkey skills is a much better idea then making it into a fps flight combat. As it would still be in the style of the game everybody bought to play. Oh and P.S i loved Battlefront 2's space fights and i considered myself the bane of bots and my friends. (mainly because they didnt play often ^^) I was just talking on the perspective of others, if they did actually release it i would play it like a madman, i just dont think its a good choice adding an entirely different genre into a game FPS combat is still in a "MMORPG-fashion", MMORPG's aren't exclusively retarded tab targetting all the way. And it doesn't have any unique rewards except ship upgrades, fleet commendations and titles so you wouldn't be "forced" into anything. You don't have to do every aspect of the MMO you're playing, it's fine to just say it isn't for you and leave it at that, plenty of other stuff to do. But anyways discussing this with someone who haven't even tried the space combat system is pointless so I'm out, but it's not ridiculous at all.
What a nasty reply. Seriously.
I have tried the space combat now and i see no problem with it, quirky little minigame, "Fps combat is still in an mmorpg fashion" - wtf? no. Its fps.
OR are you talking about what ive suggested above and just proceeded to make a dick comment and not read?
Nice guy you are!
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On December 24 2011 23:06 Capped wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2011 22:38 Ighox wrote:On December 24 2011 20:39 Capped wrote:On December 24 2011 12:32 Ighox wrote:On December 24 2011 12:15 Capped wrote:
At ^ above post. Why are people expecting that stupid? Because asking for FPS like combat to be implemented into an MMORPG is like bitchslapping your buyers in the face. Its adding a playstyle to the game they didnt advertise nor try to cater to demand.
Adding a system like the mythical water combat of GW2 would be a better idea. Where its still MMORPG-style combat but "different" because its not on land (I dont know the way to say up down forward back left and right rofl, brainfart at 3am.)
Again, I don't understand why, you already need to aim and move your ship sideways and up/down (and if anything the aiming part is adding a playstyle), you just can't move freely around in the mission, you fly in a straight line on a predetermined path.
Ive not experienced the space combat but i damn sure dont want or expect FPS style speed and combat when i want to sit back and play my MMO for the evening.
Then don't do space combat? It's sort of like saying "remove the PvP system, I don't want to "compete" against other players when I want to sit back and play my MMO for the evening". And since you haven't even tried it, come back after you've tried it and see if you still think it's a bad idea compared to the current space combat system. You might not like the space combat system at all, and that's fine, but that's not the issue here, it's the could be vs the current one and not if you like space combat or not. No. Its not like saying remove the pvp at all. What people want is them to add another genre of game into SWTOR - Its a ridiculous idea. As i said before, add something like GW2's water combat system (of course, im just going on looks and hearsay.) you have 100% control and its still in MMORPG-fashion, its just "360" combat with a bit of a difference (i know the use of 360 is wrong but how do u describe it ffs.) - Making it like battlefront 2 would be ludicrous as that requires a whole different pallet of skill and tastes which alot of MMO gamers dont have nor want. I loved the space combat of battlefront 2, i still dont want to play it when i log on for SWTOR. I hope you can see my point behind this :| And telling me "just dont play it" - well what if it offers unique rewards? Ones required for raids or pvp or whatever? I would be forced to play at a disadvantage or do something i dislike/dont want to do/suck at for hours on end. Adding a 360 spacial control to the ship and giving it the hotkey skills is a much better idea then making it into a fps flight combat. As it would still be in the style of the game everybody bought to play. Oh and P.S i loved Battlefront 2's space fights and i considered myself the bane of bots and my friends. (mainly because they didnt play often ^^) I was just talking on the perspective of others, if they did actually release it i would play it like a madman, i just dont think its a good choice adding an entirely different genre into a game FPS combat is still in a "MMORPG-fashion", MMORPG's aren't exclusively retarded tab targetting all the way. And it doesn't have any unique rewards except ship upgrades, fleet commendations and titles so you wouldn't be "forced" into anything. You don't have to do every aspect of the MMO you're playing, it's fine to just say it isn't for you and leave it at that, plenty of other stuff to do. But anyways discussing this with someone who haven't even tried the space combat system is pointless so I'm out, but it's not ridiculous at all. What a nasty reply. Seriously. I have tried the space combat now and i see no problem with it, quirky little minigame, "Fps combat is still in an mmorpg fashion" - wtf? no. Its fps. OR are you talking about what ive suggested above and just proceeded to make a dick comment and not read? Nice guy you are!
There are many MMORPG's with FPS combat.
And I see no problems with it either, I just see that it would be better and more interesting if you could freely move around in the space missions.
I don't see how my reply was "nasty" either.
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On December 24 2011 17:59 Deltablazy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2011 17:28 Firebolt145 wrote:On December 24 2011 12:26 Zerothegreat wrote:On December 24 2011 10:19 Firebolt145 wrote:
One PvE thing that makes me sad is that is that I have reached level 25 and have yet to have a single fight that isn't tank and spank. I don't know if I'm missing something or if they come later but....yeah. That's disappointing. Umm have you done much PvE in the game then? I've done every single flashpoint/heroic that the game has directly sent me to so far. I'm not saying that SWTOR has no interesting fights, I just find it strange that I haven't come across any non tank-and-spanks yet. Cademimu. And if you say it's tank and spank, then you might as well quit this game.
"If your opinion differs from mine, get out because you're not wanted in this community"
How mature.
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On December 24 2011 23:44 Ighox wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2011 23:06 Capped wrote:On December 24 2011 22:38 Ighox wrote:On December 24 2011 20:39 Capped wrote:On December 24 2011 12:32 Ighox wrote:On December 24 2011 12:15 Capped wrote:
At ^ above post. Why are people expecting that stupid? Because asking for FPS like combat to be implemented into an MMORPG is like bitchslapping your buyers in the face. Its adding a playstyle to the game they didnt advertise nor try to cater to demand.
Adding a system like the mythical water combat of GW2 would be a better idea. Where its still MMORPG-style combat but "different" because its not on land (I dont know the way to say up down forward back left and right rofl, brainfart at 3am.)
Again, I don't understand why, you already need to aim and move your ship sideways and up/down (and if anything the aiming part is adding a playstyle), you just can't move freely around in the mission, you fly in a straight line on a predetermined path.
Ive not experienced the space combat but i damn sure dont want or expect FPS style speed and combat when i want to sit back and play my MMO for the evening.
Then don't do space combat? It's sort of like saying "remove the PvP system, I don't want to "compete" against other players when I want to sit back and play my MMO for the evening". And since you haven't even tried it, come back after you've tried it and see if you still think it's a bad idea compared to the current space combat system. You might not like the space combat system at all, and that's fine, but that's not the issue here, it's the could be vs the current one and not if you like space combat or not. No. Its not like saying remove the pvp at all. What people want is them to add another genre of game into SWTOR - Its a ridiculous idea. As i said before, add something like GW2's water combat system (of course, im just going on looks and hearsay.) you have 100% control and its still in MMORPG-fashion, its just "360" combat with a bit of a difference (i know the use of 360 is wrong but how do u describe it ffs.) - Making it like battlefront 2 would be ludicrous as that requires a whole different pallet of skill and tastes which alot of MMO gamers dont have nor want. I loved the space combat of battlefront 2, i still dont want to play it when i log on for SWTOR. I hope you can see my point behind this :| And telling me "just dont play it" - well what if it offers unique rewards? Ones required for raids or pvp or whatever? I would be forced to play at a disadvantage or do something i dislike/dont want to do/suck at for hours on end. Adding a 360 spacial control to the ship and giving it the hotkey skills is a much better idea then making it into a fps flight combat. As it would still be in the style of the game everybody bought to play. Oh and P.S i loved Battlefront 2's space fights and i considered myself the bane of bots and my friends. (mainly because they didnt play often ^^) I was just talking on the perspective of others, if they did actually release it i would play it like a madman, i just dont think its a good choice adding an entirely different genre into a game FPS combat is still in a "MMORPG-fashion", MMORPG's aren't exclusively retarded tab targetting all the way. And it doesn't have any unique rewards except ship upgrades, fleet commendations and titles so you wouldn't be "forced" into anything. You don't have to do every aspect of the MMO you're playing, it's fine to just say it isn't for you and leave it at that, plenty of other stuff to do. But anyways discussing this with someone who haven't even tried the space combat system is pointless so I'm out, but it's not ridiculous at all. What a nasty reply. Seriously. I have tried the space combat now and i see no problem with it, quirky little minigame, "Fps combat is still in an mmorpg fashion" - wtf? no. Its fps. OR are you talking about what ive suggested above and just proceeded to make a dick comment and not read? Nice guy you are! There are many MMORPG's with FPS combat. And I see no problems with it either, I just see that it would be better and more interesting if you could freely move around in the space missions. I don't see how my reply was "nasty" either.
Ugh, name a few MMORPG's with "FPS-combat" i think what your talking about is something completely different from what i view.
And yes, free movement etc is what ive already spoken about, i think it should be more that way >.< i stated it several times. I just said it should still be along the lines of the skillbar instead of aim -> left click (mmo vs fps style.) but free movement would be an improvement.
However it would be a complete rework of the spacebattles. The way they are set up now allow for the MMORPG players with little to no interest or skill in FPS games to have a dick around and fun in space battles..making it free movement and keeping the current "style" of shooting a spaceship about wouldnt be MMORPG like at all, MMOFPS would be it
Again, im not opposed to this myself im just talking about the general mmo playerbase, alot wouldnt want that sort of thing and telling them "jus dont play it derp" because it requires a complete different playstyle is not the same as not pvping because you dont like it.
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I think Capped is just trying to say he wants it to be less "rail-shooter" and more "I have control"
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Lalalaland34483 Posts
On December 24 2011 17:59 Deltablazy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2011 17:28 Firebolt145 wrote:On December 24 2011 12:26 Zerothegreat wrote:On December 24 2011 10:19 Firebolt145 wrote:
One PvE thing that makes me sad is that is that I have reached level 25 and have yet to have a single fight that isn't tank and spank. I don't know if I'm missing something or if they come later but....yeah. That's disappointing. Umm have you done much PvE in the game then? I've done every single flashpoint/heroic that the game has directly sent me to so far. I'm not saying that SWTOR has no interesting fights, I just find it strange that I haven't come across any non tank-and-spanks yet. Cademimu. And if you say it's tank and spank, then you might as well quit this game.
Haven't run into him yet. Where is he?
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On December 24 2011 17:28 Firebolt145 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2011 12:26 Zerothegreat wrote:On December 24 2011 10:19 Firebolt145 wrote:
One PvE thing that makes me sad is that is that I have reached level 25 and have yet to have a single fight that isn't tank and spank. I don't know if I'm missing something or if they come later but....yeah. That's disappointing. Umm have you done much PvE in the game then? I've done every single flashpoint/heroic that the game has directly sent me to so far. I'm not saying that SWTOR has no interesting fights, I just find it strange that I haven't come across any non tank-and-spanks yet.
Final boss in Athiss?
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On December 25 2011 00:17 Capped wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2011 23:44 Ighox wrote:On December 24 2011 23:06 Capped wrote:On December 24 2011 22:38 Ighox wrote:On December 24 2011 20:39 Capped wrote:On December 24 2011 12:32 Ighox wrote:On December 24 2011 12:15 Capped wrote:
At ^ above post. Why are people expecting that stupid? Because asking for FPS like combat to be implemented into an MMORPG is like bitchslapping your buyers in the face. Its adding a playstyle to the game they didnt advertise nor try to cater to demand.
Adding a system like the mythical water combat of GW2 would be a better idea. Where its still MMORPG-style combat but "different" because its not on land (I dont know the way to say up down forward back left and right rofl, brainfart at 3am.)
Again, I don't understand why, you already need to aim and move your ship sideways and up/down (and if anything the aiming part is adding a playstyle), you just can't move freely around in the mission, you fly in a straight line on a predetermined path.
Ive not experienced the space combat but i damn sure dont want or expect FPS style speed and combat when i want to sit back and play my MMO for the evening.
Then don't do space combat? It's sort of like saying "remove the PvP system, I don't want to "compete" against other players when I want to sit back and play my MMO for the evening". And since you haven't even tried it, come back after you've tried it and see if you still think it's a bad idea compared to the current space combat system. You might not like the space combat system at all, and that's fine, but that's not the issue here, it's the could be vs the current one and not if you like space combat or not. No. Its not like saying remove the pvp at all. What people want is them to add another genre of game into SWTOR - Its a ridiculous idea. As i said before, add something like GW2's water combat system (of course, im just going on looks and hearsay.) you have 100% control and its still in MMORPG-fashion, its just "360" combat with a bit of a difference (i know the use of 360 is wrong but how do u describe it ffs.) - Making it like battlefront 2 would be ludicrous as that requires a whole different pallet of skill and tastes which alot of MMO gamers dont have nor want. I loved the space combat of battlefront 2, i still dont want to play it when i log on for SWTOR. I hope you can see my point behind this :| And telling me "just dont play it" - well what if it offers unique rewards? Ones required for raids or pvp or whatever? I would be forced to play at a disadvantage or do something i dislike/dont want to do/suck at for hours on end. Adding a 360 spacial control to the ship and giving it the hotkey skills is a much better idea then making it into a fps flight combat. As it would still be in the style of the game everybody bought to play. Oh and P.S i loved Battlefront 2's space fights and i considered myself the bane of bots and my friends. (mainly because they didnt play often ^^) I was just talking on the perspective of others, if they did actually release it i would play it like a madman, i just dont think its a good choice adding an entirely different genre into a game FPS combat is still in a "MMORPG-fashion", MMORPG's aren't exclusively retarded tab targetting all the way. And it doesn't have any unique rewards except ship upgrades, fleet commendations and titles so you wouldn't be "forced" into anything. You don't have to do every aspect of the MMO you're playing, it's fine to just say it isn't for you and leave it at that, plenty of other stuff to do. But anyways discussing this with someone who haven't even tried the space combat system is pointless so I'm out, but it's not ridiculous at all. What a nasty reply. Seriously. I have tried the space combat now and i see no problem with it, quirky little minigame, "Fps combat is still in an mmorpg fashion" - wtf? no. Its fps. OR are you talking about what ive suggested above and just proceeded to make a dick comment and not read? Nice guy you are! There are many MMORPG's with FPS combat. And I see no problems with it either, I just see that it would be better and more interesting if you could freely move around in the space missions. I don't see how my reply was "nasty" either. Ugh, name a few MMORPG's with "FPS-combat" i think what your talking about is something completely different from what i view.
Planetside, Darkfall, Mortal Online, Global Agenda, Tera, Vindictus.
And yes, free movement etc is what ive already spoken about, i think it should be more that way >.< i stated it several times. I just said it should still be along the lines of the skillbar instead of aim -> left click (mmo vs fps style.) but free movement would be an improvement. However it would be a complete rework of the spacebattles. The way they are set up now allow for the MMORPG players with little to no interest or skill in FPS games to have a dick around and fun in space battles..making it free movement and keeping the current "style" of shooting a spaceship about wouldnt be MMORPG like at all, MMOFPS would be it Again, im not opposed to this myself im just talking about the general mmo playerbase, alot wouldnt want that sort of thing and telling them "jus dont play it derp" because it requires a complete different playstyle is not the same as not pvping because you dont like it.
Don't really care that much if it's free aim or targeting even though I would prefer free aim because we've already got enough targeting and at least now it's very different from anything else, add a skillbar and targetting and it would just be normal PvP in space.
But I just want at least free movement to make future missions more fun and have a higher replay value, right now I'm sure most people won't do the spacecombat dailies at 50 for more than a week because it just gets so boring and when you've got epic parts on your ship you just have several minutes every mission where there's nothing to do.
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To have you turn to me and say Planetside and Global agenda, both MMOFPS games, not RPGs. Is hillarious.
Vindictus is marketed as an action mmo game too btw much like Diablo-esque games, not MMORPG.
Havent played the others so im not sure but ive never heard of any free-aim elements in TERA and one look at Darkfalls homepage and it shouts "RPG, Strategy and SHOOTER at me. Not marketed as an MMORPG like SWTOR is.
I said before it doesnt bother me, i just think for people to expect that is silly, as they would be open to ridicule and judgement for adding an element to their game that wasnt specified and possibly piss off customers who wanted an MMORPG.
As i said, free control in an MMORPG style would be fitting, not adding a space shooter into the game, "It would just be normal pvp in space" - i fail to see how thats normal pvp, i would love to fly around in my ship in a 360 enviroment >.> would be awesome.
BTW, i heard about this awesome new MMORPG, its called call of duty. Look it up man!
I will stop discussing this as people dont read my points and just shout at me. so yeah ^_^
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On December 25 2011 00:37 Zerothegreat wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2011 17:28 Firebolt145 wrote:On December 24 2011 12:26 Zerothegreat wrote:On December 24 2011 10:19 Firebolt145 wrote:
One PvE thing that makes me sad is that is that I have reached level 25 and have yet to have a single fight that isn't tank and spank. I don't know if I'm missing something or if they come later but....yeah. That's disappointing. Umm have you done much PvE in the game then? I've done every single flashpoint/heroic that the game has directly sent me to so far. I'm not saying that SWTOR has no interesting fights, I just find it strange that I haven't come across any non tank-and-spanks yet. Final boss in Athiss?
That boss is super easy. Although yeah, it isnt just tank n spank ^^
The big fucker before that wiped my group >.> i had to off-tank the adds in a lowbie FP - was happily surprised at the difficulty
Ive only done the first three FP's and a few of the bosses have all needed things other then "Stand there and smack it" - e.g moving out of ranges and positioning etc, mmo stuff
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On December 25 2011 01:07 Capped wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2011 00:37 Zerothegreat wrote:On December 24 2011 17:28 Firebolt145 wrote:On December 24 2011 12:26 Zerothegreat wrote:On December 24 2011 10:19 Firebolt145 wrote:
One PvE thing that makes me sad is that is that I have reached level 25 and have yet to have a single fight that isn't tank and spank. I don't know if I'm missing something or if they come later but....yeah. That's disappointing. Umm have you done much PvE in the game then? I've done every single flashpoint/heroic that the game has directly sent me to so far. I'm not saying that SWTOR has no interesting fights, I just find it strange that I haven't come across any non tank-and-spanks yet. Final boss in Athiss? That boss is super easy. Although yeah, it isnt just tank n spank ^^ The big fucker before that wiped my group >.> i had to off-tank the adds in a lowbie FP - was happily surprised at the difficulty Ive only done the first three FP's and a few of the bosses have all needed things other then "Stand there and smack it" - e.g moving out of ranges and positioning etc, mmo stuff
Try doing it with a healer that doesn't have dispel yet then it's hard lol.
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Thoughts on TOR
So, something's been bugging me as I've been playing TOR. A gnawing feeling. So I'll get it out in a general opinion piece.
Lets Start With the Good...
Of the MMO releases since WoW, this has been a pretty good one. The game is fairly stable and overall has few major bugs. Content is dependable, server uptime is great, most of the features work (more on the ones that don't later), and content is present for levelling - although people have complained of a level gap, I've found myself far ahead of the curve more often than not by doing things like PvP, space missions, so on. The class stories are pretty damn engaging - I'm playing an Inquis and an Agent, and my Inquis is levelling with a Warrior friend, so I'm getting to see three of them at once. While the pacing is slow, that's the nature of the beast and I'm willing to forgive the way the story very slowly moves from one thing to the next. The most fun I've had is when doing this sort of gameplay, talking with my Sith Lord master, or calling back to Imperial Intelligence to report on my successes. It has a good feel to it and I can see 'class stories' becoming a part of future MMOs.
The regular quests have also, so far, been pretty inoffensive. I really do like the bonus system replacing getting quests to kill X of Y - its a clever move and means we don't have to listen to an Imperial Trooper complain that the thugs need clearing out and we need to kill ten of them, it feels more natural. I also enjoy the multi-tiered bonus missions especially, as it has a good feel of clearing out an enemy organisation. All in all, questing is pretty good in this game - a few bumps in quest flow here and there, this isn't Cataclysm quality, but the amount of backtracking I've had to do is minimal. I will say the 'Bonus Series' quests are perhaps a little too long in some cases, but the counter arguement is that they are a 'bonus' - although my understanding is you need to finish these to keep up with XP requirements.
The Bad...
The interface is probably the worst offender in terms of things putting me off, although it's jostling for position with something I'll cover later. Things like the auction house are fairly unusable, the 'quick travel' thing is nice but I miss having a hearthstone to my ship or to the space station. The amount of loading screens when I want to move planets to go to an instance and can't use my (once per day!) fleet recall is absurd. Then there's things like interface options not carrying over from one character to another. I'll gloss over the bugs as they'll be fixed (hopefully) fairly quickly - things like the healing UI in PvP not displaying certain people, or healthbars not actually moving, can be immensely frustrating but are obviously not intended design.
Abilities, however, are a mess. Wrath, Cataclysm and Mists of Pandaria have all done the same thing - cut down the number of abilities and cut down the number of 'false choices' in Warcraft. In TOR, the developers don't seem to have any concept of such things. I'll give an example - my Inquisitor (Assassin) is tank spec. She has an ability called Dark Ward: "Surrounds you in a dark ward with 8 charges that increases your shield chance by 15% for 20 seconds. Each time you successfully shield, Dark Ward loses 1 charge. Does not break Stealth." This is a terrible ability - even more so because its off the global cooldown. The reason why is simple - there is no reason, ever, not to press it. It's like Shield Block for warriors in vanilla WoW, something you must have up as much as possible or you are a worse tank. A 'false' choice. Another button I have to press routinely, and it'd make no difference in my gameplay to remove it other than being a little less tedious.
Then, there's general bloat. Everyone past level 25 I'd say has to deal with overstuffed action bars. My Agent (Operative) especially has this, a large number of abilities that she either doesn't use or have a large number of overlap. Part of the problem, I imagine, is due to lumping two classes into one; you end up with abilities that are only really useful for one class but not the other. The result is a confusing mess with full action bars and a lot of redundancy, with most abilities being either incredibly situational or used once per fight at most. Talent trees also suffer from poor layout - you often get talents for abilities before you get the ability and that can leave you confused to see what's immediately good or not. This could perhaps be seen as being new kids on the block of MMO design, but Bioware have a great resource in Blizzard's blog posts, and a lot of this stuff is basic game design and user friendliness.
The Ugly...
This one gets its own section as it's perhaps vulnerable to me being an older gamer with more experience in MMOs than someone 'fresh' to such games. It could also just be my opinion, but then, all of this is.
The biggest problem I have with TOR so far is the lack of atmosphere. Let me explain using a little story. When I started WoW I played a human mage. I started in an idyllic little forest, with green trees, fresh air, and while they had their problems it was general small stuff. I explored around and got a feel for the people who lived there - devout, farming communities and a busy little village. I got sent to the capitol fairly early and my jaw dropped, Stormwind, a gigantic military city, massive walls, a huge moat, imposing statues. Townspeople chatting. Little businesses everywhere and people who'd say stuff to you when you'd walk in. I had quests that'd lead me around the city and make me explore. I'd then leave the city and go to Westfall, but I'd occasionally come back through Stormwind.
Now lets look at TOR; I arrive on Korriban and begin my training. I perform various trials for an asshole of a man to prove my superiority and become the Apprentice of a Darth. I get a feel for the Sith way and learn about being what a Sith means, I get faced with a few moral choices which are fairly black and white, but everything on Korriban is so evil anyway I feel inclined to follow suit. I then leave Korriban, stop by the station, visit my trainer and go to Dromund Kaas. I see a fairly empty city, talk to my new master, get sent out and do some questing. I put down a slave rebellion and brave a dark (and interesting) Temple, then go to Balmorra. I check in at the local garrison and head out...
What's the point of these stories? To try and demonstrate something; WoW has two major advantages over TOR. Consistancy and atmosphere. While TOR has far superior direct narrative, WoW had far superior environmental design. They didn't need to tell you that something was wrong in Duskwood, you knew the moment you walked in. They didn't need to tell you that the Night Elves were druidic, nature loving - explore any of their zones and you feel lost amoungst the trees. Then there was Stormwind (Stormwind more so than Orgrimmar, although new Orgrimmar is much better for this) - Stormwind on its own feels like a real, breathing place and also tells you all about the Alliance without telling you any of this. It felt like a city, I felt like a part of it. If I go to Dromund it's a grey city with one cantina and a bunch of crafting trainers. Most worlds are the same - they're quest hubs with some trainers in them, perhaps some snippets of chat, but the world feels static and false. I don't see anything of day to day life and get no feel of it.
It all feels like a quest hub, and that's bad for an MMO.
None of the places I visit seem like real places. Least of all the massive city worlds like Coruscant and Nar Shaddaa. They didn't feel like cities. They felt like places with grey/brown platforms for me to kill Exchange thugs on. None of the Imperial outposts felt like they were actual places, just a ship, some turrets and a few quest NPCs to talk to. The biggest thing killing TOR for me right now is the lack of feeling I'm getting from the game that tells me about the various places. It's sort of there but in no real depth - it feels a lot like the Prequels in that regard. The Original Trilogy was designed around a 'lived-in' universe feel, and a lot of storytelling was done through environments and stuff outside the main story. In the Prequels, with everything being prerendered, there was little in the background that actual actors could do. TOR is static in this regard, with places not feeling like real places, and people feeling like they're there to give me quests and not be people. Sure, WoW suffered from this somewhat, but it's very jarring in TOR.
All in all, I'm seeing warning signs fairly early - cracks in the paint and a bit of dry rot - that Bioware don't have a good team for MMO design. The people who've hit 50 who I know all complain of a lack of things to do other than alt. Maybe it'll take time for raiding to be set up but nobody's really enthused to see a newbie development team take a crack at something we've all done before that's been produced by a far, far more experienced team - especially after the Flashpoints where the fights are all incredibly basic compared to WoW's five-mans.
Fin
I'll say now that these are just my thoughts, but I can't see TOR lasting as a major contender past Guild Wars 2 or Pandaria's release. Guild Wars 2 offers too much new and shiny rather than 'just copy WoW' and Pandaria will do everything TOR did but do it better. TOR's enjoying its "everything is new" period right now, but the lack of decent faction hubs (the space station is a soulless, copy pasted monstrosity with no life in it at all) or any feel of a consistant world/universe worries me. I sometimes feel like a Sith Lord, or an Imperial Agent, but those only really happen during the story moments. The second I pass that little green barrier and step outside, I'm suddenly aware I'm in an MMO again... and that MMO has some weak design elements to it.
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On December 25 2011 02:11 Kisra wrote:
Thoughts on TOR
So, something's been bugging me as I've been playing TOR. A gnawing feeling. So I'll get it out in a general opinion piece.
Lets Start With the Good...
Of the MMO releases since WoW, this has been a pretty good one. The game is fairly stable and overall has few major bugs. Content is dependable, server uptime is great, most of the features work (more on the ones that don't later), and content is present for levelling - although people have complained of a level gap, I've found myself far ahead of the curve more often than not by doing things like PvP, space missions, so on. The class stories are pretty damn engaging - I'm playing an Inquis and an Agent, and my Inquis is levelling with a Warrior friend, so I'm getting to see three of them at once. While the pacing is slow, that's the nature of the beast and I'm willing to forgive the way the story very slowly moves from one thing to the next. The most fun I've had is when doing this sort of gameplay, talking with my Sith Lord master, or calling back to Imperial Intelligence to report on my successes. It has a good feel to it and I can see 'class stories' becoming a part of future MMOs.
The regular quests have also, so far, been pretty inoffensive. I really do like the bonus system replacing getting quests to kill X of Y - its a clever move and means we don't have to listen to an Imperial Trooper complain that the thugs need clearing out and we need to kill ten of them, it feels more natural. I also enjoy the multi-tiered bonus missions especially, as it has a good feel of clearing out an enemy organisation. All in all, questing is pretty good in this game - a few bumps in quest flow here and there, this isn't Cataclysm quality, but the amount of backtracking I've had to do is minimal. I will say the 'Bonus Series' quests are perhaps a little too long in some cases, but the counter arguement is that they are a 'bonus' - although my understanding is you need to finish these to keep up with XP requirements.
The Bad...
The interface is probably the worst offender in terms of things putting me off, although it's jostling for position with something I'll cover later. Things like the auction house are fairly unusable, the 'quick travel' thing is nice but I miss having a hearthstone to my ship or to the space station. The amount of loading screens when I want to move planets to go to an instance and can't use my (once per day!) fleet recall is absurd. Then there's things like interface options not carrying over from one character to another. I'll gloss over the bugs as they'll be fixed (hopefully) fairly quickly - things like the healing UI in PvP not displaying certain people, or healthbars not actually moving, can be immensely frustrating but are obviously not intended design.
Abilities, however, are a mess. Wrath, Cataclysm and Mists of Pandaria have all done the same thing - cut down the number of abilities and cut down the number of 'false choices' in Warcraft. In TOR, the developers don't seem to have any concept of such things. I'll give an example - my Inquisitor (Assassin) is tank spec. She has an ability called Dark Ward: "Surrounds you in a dark ward with 8 charges that increases your shield chance by 15% for 20 seconds. Each time you successfully shield, Dark Ward loses 1 charge. Does not break Stealth." This is a terrible ability - even more so because its off the global cooldown. The reason why is simple - there is no reason, ever, not to press it. It's like Shield Block for warriors in vanilla WoW, something you must have up as much as possible or you are a worse tank. A 'false' choice. Another button I have to press routinely, and it'd make no difference in my gameplay to remove it other than being a little less tedious.
Then, there's general bloat. Everyone past level 25 I'd say has to deal with overstuffed action bars. My Agent (Operative) especially has this, a large number of abilities that she either doesn't use or have a large number of overlap. Part of the problem, I imagine, is due to lumping two classes into one; you end up with abilities that are only really useful for one class but not the other. The result is a confusing mess with full action bars and a lot of redundancy, with most abilities being either incredibly situational or used once per fight at most. Talent trees also suffer from poor layout - you often get talents for abilities before you get the ability and that can leave you confused to see what's immediately good or not. This could perhaps be seen as being new kids on the block of MMO design, but Bioware have a great resource in Blizzard's blog posts, and a lot of this stuff is basic game design and user friendliness.
The Ugly...
This one gets its own section as it's perhaps vulnerable to me being an older gamer with more experience in MMOs than someone 'fresh' to such games. It could also just be my opinion, but then, all of this is.
The biggest problem I have with TOR so far is the lack of atmosphere. Let me explain using a little story. When I started WoW I played a human mage. I started in an idyllic little forest, with green trees, fresh air, and while they had their problems it was general small stuff. I explored around and got a feel for the people who lived there - devout, farming communities and a busy little village. I got sent to the capitol fairly early and my jaw dropped, Stormwind, a gigantic military city, massive walls, a huge moat, imposing statues. Townspeople chatting. Little businesses everywhere and people who'd say stuff to you when you'd walk in. I had quests that'd lead me around the city and make me explore. I'd then leave the city and go to Westfall, but I'd occasionally come back through Stormwind.
Now lets look at TOR; I arrive on Korriban and begin my training. I perform various trials for an asshole of a man to prove my superiority and become the Apprentice of a Darth. I get a feel for the Sith way and learn about being what a Sith means, I get faced with a few moral choices which are fairly black and white, but everything on Korriban is so evil anyway I feel inclined to follow suit. I then leave Korriban, stop by the station, visit my trainer and go to Dromund Kaas. I see a fairly empty city, talk to my new master, get sent out and do some questing. I put down a slave rebellion and brave a dark (and interesting) Temple, then go to Balmorra. I check in at the local garrison and head out...
What's the point of these stories? To try and demonstrate something; WoW has two major advantages over TOR. Consistancy and atmosphere. While TOR has far superior direct narrative, WoW had far superior environmental design. They didn't need to tell you that something was wrong in Duskwood, you knew the moment you walked in. They didn't need to tell you that the Night Elves were druidic, nature loving - explore any of their zones and you feel lost amoungst the trees. Then there was Stormwind (Stormwind more so than Orgrimmar, although new Orgrimmar is much better for this) - Stormwind on its own feels like a real, breathing place and also tells you all about the Alliance without telling you any of this. It felt like a city, I felt like a part of it. If I go to Dromund it's a grey city with one cantina and a bunch of crafting trainers. Most worlds are the same - they're quest hubs with some trainers in them, perhaps some snippets of chat, but the world feels static and false. I don't see anything of day to day life and get no feel of it.
It all feels like a quest hub, and that's bad for an MMO.
None of the places I visit seem like real places. Least of all the massive city worlds like Coruscant and Nar Shaddaa. They didn't feel like cities. They felt like places with grey/brown platforms for me to kill Exchange thugs on. None of the Imperial outposts felt like they were actual places, just a ship, some turrets and a few quest NPCs to talk to. The biggest thing killing TOR for me right now is the lack of feeling I'm getting from the game that tells me about the various places. It's sort of there but in no real depth - it feels a lot like the Prequels in that regard. The Original Trilogy was designed around a 'lived-in' universe feel, and a lot of storytelling was done through environments and stuff outside the main story. In the Prequels, with everything being prerendered, there was little in the background that actual actors could do. TOR is static in this regard, with places not feeling like real places, and people feeling like they're there to give me quests and not be people. Sure, WoW suffered from this somewhat, but it's very jarring in TOR.
All in all, I'm seeing warning signs fairly early - cracks in the paint and a bit of dry rot - that Bioware don't have a good team for MMO design. The people who've hit 50 who I know all complain of a lack of things to do other than alt. Maybe it'll take time for raiding to be set up but nobody's really enthused to see a newbie development team take a crack at something we've all done before that's been produced by a far, far more experienced team - especially after the Flashpoints where the fights are all incredibly basic compared to WoW's five-mans.
Fin
I'll say now that these are just my thoughts, but I can't see TOR lasting as a major contender past Guild Wars 2 or Pandaria's release. Guild Wars 2 offers too much new and shiny rather than 'just copy WoW' and Pandaria will do everything TOR did but do it better. TOR's enjoying its "everything is new" period right now, but the lack of decent faction hubs (the space station is a soulless, copy pasted monstrosity with no life in it at all) or any feel of a consistant world/universe worries me. I sometimes feel like a Sith Lord, or an Imperial Agent, but those only really happen during the story moments. The second I pass that little green barrier and step outside, I'm suddenly aware I'm in an MMO again... and that MMO has some weak design elements to it.
Your ugly part makes no sense and I think you are just delusional. The lack of things to do @ 50 could be cause there are few 50s at the moment so no real pugs or raiding going on for a lot of them. Did you just say WoW's 5mans were better than TOR's? Try comparing Stockades to Black Talon... I'd take Black Talon any day!
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EPT
